St James' Park

[Whitley mag]

 

[Bellis80]

Still hasn’t been a new ground in the last 30 years with a better atmosphere despite every one being talked about as having perfect acoustics and design. All bullshit.

[SteV]

24 minutes ago, Bellis80 said:

Still hasn’t been a new ground in the last 30 years with a better atmosphere despite every one being talked about as having perfect acoustics and design. All bullshit.

But is that not to do with the change in atmosphere’s generally?

 

If you look at the Match Atmosphere thread, people (probably justifiably) are forever romanticising of the atmosphere in the 90’s and before, in comparison to that of today.

 

As it is, I think it’s almost impossible to ‘improve’ atmosphere whilst also substantially increasing capacity. I can’t really think of a stadium in Europe that has a capacity of 60k+ where the atmosphere is consistently rocking.
 

Somewhere like Dortmund is often very visually impressive, but is it really consistently loud?

 

If, as seems the likely direction of travel, we end up with a new stadium, the best we can probably hope for is that they make a genuine effort to incorporate the (seemingly obvious) things that will at least give us some kind of a chance of cultivating some atmosphere - getting like minded folk together, large areas of safe standing in multiple parts of the ground etc etc

 

The easiest time to do all of that is when you have a blank canvas, once people ‘have a seat’, it becomes far more messy.

[Bellis80]

I agree. But people shouldn’t be using an improved atmosphere as a reason to move as it’s never happened.

 

The argument about the old atmosphere also doesn’t make much sense to me. The 80s and early 90s in English football were the worst attendances there had ever been but the atmosphere was better? Not having it unless people kicking fuck out of each other and people getting set on fire is what people want again.

 

 

Edited January 30 by Bellis80

[bobbydazzla]

It's a tale of two halves for me

 

Going to match used to be all about seeing the football lads, drinking before, during and after and to be honest, the game was secondary to going on the peeve. Then I jacked my ST and stopped going during worst of the Ashley era.

 

Since the takeover, I’ve rarely missed a match but now I go straight to the ground, straight home after, never drink, and usually go alone. My old crew still follows the same old routine, but I’m not joining in anymore.

 

I miss the old days with my football pals, but I enjoy the match more now.

 

I'm often out at gigs etc and love sitting in pubs talking shite, so it's not a lifestyle change, it's just a change in attitude towards the relationship between watching footy and boozing

 

 

Edited January 30 by bobbydazzla

[Stifler]

2 minutes ago, Bellis80 said:

I agree. But people shouldn’t be using an improved atmosphere as a reason to move as it’s never happened.

A new ground could facilitate a better atmosphere with the structure engineered to keep the noise in.

It is however up to the crowd to make it.

[Bellis80]

3 minutes ago, Stifler said:

A new ground could facilitate a better atmosphere with the structure engineered to keep the noise in.

It is however up to the crowd to make it.

In theory it could but every new ground I remember has thought that and it hasn’t happened.

[JonBez comesock]

People make noise = atmosphere 

 

The end 

 

Sit people together that want to create atmosphere/ noise 

 

Simple 

 

 

[Stifler]

1 hour ago, Bellis80 said:

In theory it could but every new ground I remember has thought that and it hasn’t happened.

Both Bayern Munich and Juventus would be evidence to the counter.

[SUPERTOON]

I swear Douglas writes the same two articles every month. One about the stadium, one about PSR and transfers and now the next window will be different.

[Bellis80]

2 hours ago, Stifler said:

Both Bayern Munich and Juventus would be evidence to the counter.

I was thinking in England but if the two best examples are clubs that built stadiums smaller than their old one my point stands.

[LFEE]

56 minutes ago, Bellis80 said:

I was thinking in England but if the two best examples are clubs that built stadiums smaller than their old one my point stands.

Both their old grounds had running tracks. That was the problem.

[Wallsendmag]

6 hours ago, Bellis80 said:

Still hasn’t been a new ground in the last 30 years with a better atmosphere despite every one being talked about as having perfect acoustics and design. All bullshit.

 

That's because crowds have changed dramatically in the last 20 years or so. Up here the Riverside Stadium atmosphere for the first few years pissed all over Ayresome Parks last few years with 12k rattling around in it and down the road at Sunderland, their atmosphere improved massively on Roker Parks last few years when they'd struggle to get 15k in some weeks.

 

Fair enough they both have shite atmospheres now but that's 100% do to with those who occupy football grounds these days.

 

Like it or not but the design of SJP with the high roofs in 2 stands, low roofs in the other 2 and a lopsided look, does nothing to amplify any sound. The majority of sound coming out of Level 7 escapes straight over the top of the smaller stands and into ten Tyneside air amd the Gallowgate design means that most of the sound made in there, stays in there, which is why you can't hear them from the Leazes and people in the Gallowgate can't really hear the away fans.

[Paully]

49 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

That's because crowds have changed dramatically in the last 20 years or so. Up here the Riverside Stadium atmosphere for the first few years pissed all over Ayresome Parks last few years with 12k rattling around in it and down the road at Sunderland, their atmosphere improved massively on Roker Parks last few years when they'd struggle to get 15k in some weeks.

 

Fair enough they both have shite atmospheres now but that's 100% do to with those who occupy football grounds these days.

 

Like it or not but the design of SJP with the high roofs in 2 stands, low roofs in the other 2 and a lopsided look, does nothing to amplify any sound. The majority of sound coming out of Level 7 escapes straight over the top of the smaller stands and into ten Tyneside air amd the Gallowgate design means that most of the sound made in there, stays in there, which is why you can't hear them from the Leazes and people in the Gallowgate can't really hear the away fans.

 

Absolutely spot on for all points mate!

 

Went to four derbies at Joker Park and done everyone at SOS - the first one there - 2-2 game - was loudest of any - hatred that day was unreal - first time our fans had been there for eight years!

[bobbydazzla]

There's plenty of spots in the Gallowgate and in both corners of the East Stand where you can't even SEE the away end. 

 

Take the emotion out of it and just look at the actual building itself and it's just a Frankenstein's monster of a stadium. There's nothing "right" about it.

 

I get that some people fall in love with it's lopsided weirdness. But if we only looking at it as a structure, I don't like the hodge podge design. And if it was any other club I'd be having a giggle at their freaky looking ground.

 

Only ground I've been to that felt similar is La Bombonera. But the steep, packed terraces and batshit mental atmosphere more than made up for it being a lopsided design.

 

 

Edited January 30 by bobbydazzla

[Superior Acuña]

36 minutes ago, Paully said:

 

Absolutely spot on for all points mate!

 

Went to four derbies at Joker Park and done everyone at SOS - the first one there - 2-2 game - was loudest of any - hatred that day was unreal - first time our fans had been there for eight years!

 

The 2-2 was my first away derby, at 10 years old. Yeah credit to them they made it fierce and electric, remember deafening whistling and boos. I absolutely loved it. Experiencing that meant winning there under Dabizas was probably my top moment to this day. Definitely a good example of how it can be done in a modern ground.

 

 

Edited January 30 by Superior Acuña

[Wallsendmag]

24 minutes ago, Paully said:

 

Absolutely spot on for all points mate!

 

Went to four derbies at Joker Park and done everyone at SOS - the first one there - 2-2 game - was loudest of any - hatred that day was unreal - first time our fans had been there for eight years!

 

The 2-2 game was off the scale noise wise and the pure vitriol had to be seen to be believed I don't mind admitting, but every year we played there the noise and intensity got less and less to the point where our "welcoming commitee" consisted of a few yokels giving us 2-1 signs and the atmosphere was average at best.

[Gaztoon]

[danswan]

7 hours ago, SteV said:

 

The easiest time to do all of that is when you have a blank canvas, once people ‘have a seat’, it becomes far more messy.

 

Agreed. I'd like to see one massive fuckoff end of safe standing, pay on turnstile only. Sure, have ID, membership required so idiots can be banned, but bring back the times of being able to just rock up and see a game if you want to enough. And make it affordable, cheap even. 

 

Pros:

 

• No more pockets of singers dotted all over. They can gather together in the same area every week. 
• Kids could, if they really wanted to, see a game. With their mates. A new generation of fans, who would one day graduate to more expensive seats, could be nurtured. 
• The club can truly be part of the community, with nobody excluded.
• Atmosphere would undoubtedly be better, in fact it would be off the charts.
• Early attendance would be pretty much essential, meaning greater revenue inside the ground, so increased matchday revenue on that front. 

Cons (and mitigations):

 

• Less revenue. OK, yeah on paper, but what value would the stadium with the greatest atmosphere in the world bring to the club, as we look to increase our presence on the global stage?
• Turnstile carnage. Definitely scope for his, but with modern technology surely this would easily be countered. I'm picturing some sort of point where you'd NFC your phone to confirm & pay, and then head off to the Stack or wherever to await a notification of which timeslot/turnstile to enter etc. 
• Erm.. sure there are more, but my positive mindset can't think of any. Sure someone will be along shortly to piss on my chips. 

 

Basically it would be a modern day corner/scoreboard type of setup. But stick a roof on to amplify the noise and the place would be rocking.

[gjohnson]

A new stadium is the only realistic option if we want to compete. 

 

Yes a few saddos might have to walk a few hundred metres more for their pint of cheap pissy lager....boo hoo. An extra 20/25k will more than compensate for Billy Hates His Wife so has to come. 

 

We don't live in the frigging wilds...yes transport insn't perfect but if you want to watch a match you'll manage it. Having a pint before the match is nice, but it's not why I go

 

Even if we were moved to the wilds of Gosforth Park or wherever, if I want.a drink after a match I'll still go to town. Its not like it's  on Mars. 

[Wallsendmag]

1 minute ago, gjohnson said:

A new stadium is the only realistic option if we want to compete. 

 

Yes a few saddos might have to walk a few hundred metres more for their pint of cheap pissy lager....boo hoo. An extra 20/25k will more than compensate for Billy Hates His Wife so has to come. 

 

We don't live in the frigging wilds...yes transport insn't perfect but if you want to watch a match you'll manage it. Having a pint before the match is nice, but it's not why I go

 

Even if we were moved to the wilds of Gosforth Park or wherever, if I want.a drink after a match I'll still go to town. Its not like it's  on Mars. 

 

Somewhere like Gosforth Park shouldn't even be entering in the equation tbh. If we can't have a new build in either Leazes Park, Castle Leazes, or the Arena site (that is my order of preference) then I'd rather just stay where we are.

[gjohnson]

5 minutes ago, Wallsendmag said:

 

Somewhere like Gosforth Park shouldn't even be entering in the equation tbh. If we can't have a new build in either Leazes Park, Castle Leazes, or the Arena site (that is my order of preference) then I'd rather just stay where we are.

Just an example...even if it was up there the vast majority would still head back to the town centre for food and drink. Like i say its not like its a massive or difficult journey...hell you could probably walk it in 20 minutes assuming the Carling hasn't shriveled your kidneys

[LFEE]

 

[Guest]

13 minutes ago, LFEE said:

 

60300 at an extended SJP is a lot of money for not a lot more seats. 

 

70k capacity at a new stadium. 
 

Decision “likely” pushed back until the end of the season. 

[SteV]

52 minutes ago, danswan said:

 

Agreed. I'd like to see one massive fuckoff end of safe standing, pay on turnstile only. Sure, have ID, membership required so idiots can be banned, but bring back the times of being able to just rock up and see a game if you want to enough. And make it affordable, cheap even. 

 

Pros:

 

• No more pockets of singers dotted all over. They can gather together in the same area every week. 
• Kids could, if they really wanted to, see a game. With their mates. A new generation of fans, who would one day graduate to more expensive seats, could be nurtured. 
• The club can truly be part of the community, with nobody excluded.
• Atmosphere would undoubtedly be better, in fact it would be off the charts.
• Early attendance would be pretty much essential, meaning greater revenue inside the ground, so increased matchday revenue on that front. 

Cons (and mitigations):

 

• Less revenue. OK, yeah on paper, but what value would the stadium with the greatest atmosphere in the world bring to the club, as we look to increase our presence on the global stage?
• Turnstile carnage. Definitely scope for his, but with modern technology surely this would easily be countered. I'm picturing some sort of point where you'd NFC your phone to confirm & pay, and then head off to the Stack or wherever to await a notification of which timeslot/turnstile to enter etc. 
• Erm.. sure there are more, but my positive mindset can't think of any. Sure someone will be along shortly to piss on my chips. 

 

Basically it would be a modern day corner/scoreboard type of setup. But stick a roof on to amplify the noise and the place would be rocking.

I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but you do realise that hoping for ‘pay on the day’ in the modern PL world, is as likely as, well, something very unlikely.