St James' Park

[Shadow Puppets]

The Leazes plan is definitely the one that they’re working on like… but I don’t know what the hold up is in announcing plans.

 

In March, prior to the cup final, the players, and a lot of staff, were given a presentation on the plans and shown renderings.

 

Since the beginning of the year they have been reaching out to contractors to price up certain aspects of the fit out of both the stadium and new training ground.

 

Hopefully some form of communication comes on all of that in the next few months, once the new CEO has his feet under the desk.

[ExiledGeordie]

4 minutes ago, Shadow Puppets said:

The Leazes plan is definitely the one that they’re working on like… but I don’t know what the hold up is in announcing plans.

 

In March, prior to the cup final, the players, and a lot of staff, were given a presentation on the plans and shown renderings.

 

Since the beginning of the year they have been reaching out to contractors to price up certain aspects of the fit out of both the stadium and new training ground.

 

Hopefully some form of communication comes on all of that in the next few months, once the new CEO has his feet under the desk.

Thanks for the info mate 👍

[Groundhog63]

6 minutes ago, bobbydazzla said:

That new Arena in Manchester has little Co-Op stores on the concourses where you can buy what you want off the shelves. Food, drinks and peeve.

 

Fuck that. The Co-op and Lakes & Dales are robbing bastards. 

Premier on each corner. 4 cans of Carling and a carton of Chicken & Chorizo meatballs for a fiver. Sorted

[Toonpack]

New CEO will definitely want a view and give his approval for any of the plans, after all he's the person who'll be responsible for delivering it. 

 

I think folks are underestimating the amount of work involved in projects of this size, I'm far from being a civil engineer but I do frequent places where there are big project c/engineers and they just laugh at the "there's nothing happening/why hasn't it started merchants" because (they say) it takes years of planning for stuff like this before you get near to the actual site.

[Groundhog63]

11 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

New CEO will definitely want a view and give his approval for any of the plans, after all he's the person who'll be responsible for delivering it. 

 

I think folks are underestimating the amount of work involved in projects of this size, I'm far from being a civil engineer but I do frequent places where there are big project c/engineers and they just laugh at the "there's nothing happening/why hasn't it started merchants" because (they say) it takes years of planning for stuff like this before you get near to the actual site.

 

Agreed 

 

Taken me 5 years to finally get around to start painting the bedrooms. 

Took a week to do our's. Bedroom 2 starts today. 

 

As an aside we walked down Richardson Road and through Leazes Park on sarraday and that field full of cows is definitely big enough alone. 

 

As a further aside, there was a smashing looking cultural event (African) in the park. Music, food, bantz. Canny

 

 

[bobbydazzla]

26 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

Fuck that. The Co-op and Lakes & Dales are robbing bastards. 

Premier on each corner. 4 cans of Carling and a carton of Chicken & Chorizo meatballs for a fiver. Sorted

Strong rumours that the council have insisted on NUFC installing a minimum of 3 x Sven Adult Books store on every concourse  

[madras]

5 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

 

Agreed 

 

Taken me 5 years to finally get around to start painting the bedrooms. 

Took a week to do our's. Bedroom 2 starts today. 

 

As an aside we walked down Richardson Road and through Leazes Park on sarraday and that field full of cows is definitely big enough alone. 

 

As a further aside, there was a smashing looking cultural event (African) in the park. Music, food, bantz. Canny

 

 

That's a quick start on Bedroom 2. Have you properly taken time after Bedroom 1 to study issues and processes that arose during the earlier project and value forward onto the next project ? 2 seems rushed to me.

[Toonjam88]

1 hour ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Absolutely, hence the Area 51 reference - it is all public domain, to allow the public to put forward any issues with the proposed development.  If folks are going to try and pretend to be ITK, I wish they'd line the facts up first.

No bother 👍🏻😂😂😂

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Toonjam88 said:

No bother 👍🏻😂😂😂

Tbf TJ - I was referring to your mate, not to yourself directly  

[Groundhog63]

42 minutes ago, madras said:

That's a quick start on Bedroom 2. Have you properly taken time after Bedroom 1 to study issues and processes that arose during the earlier project and value forward onto the next project ? 2 seems rushed to me.

 

Project Manager, innit 

[TheBrownBottle]

1 hour ago, Shadow Puppets said:

The Leazes plan is definitely the one that they’re working on like… but I don’t know what the hold up is in announcing plans.

 

In March, prior to the cup final, the players, and a lot of staff, were given a presentation on the plans and shown renderings.

 

Since the beginning of the year they have been reaching out to contractors to price up certain aspects of the fit out of both the stadium and new training ground.

 

Hopefully some form of communication comes on all of that in the next few months, once the new CEO has his feet under the desk.

 

1 hour ago, Toonpack said:

New CEO will definitely want a view and give his approval for any of the plans, after all he's the person who'll be responsible for delivering it. 

 

I think folks are underestimating the amount of work involved in projects of this size, I'm far from being a civil engineer but I do frequent places where there are big project c/engineers and they just laugh at the "there's nothing happening/why hasn't it started merchants" because (they say) it takes years of planning for stuff like this before you get near to the actual site.

Go on then - I'll pull rank on this one

 

I'm a civils QS who runs a team of three dozen civils, mech and elec QSs for a client with an annual spend of AUD$3.5bn p.a. - we estimate for the entire portfolio each year.  The biggest project I've estimated on this year would absolutely dwarf (by multiples) even the craziest numbers posted on a new SJP.  I've estimated on major stadium builds over here too.

 

You can't adequately plan for anything without having a site - the construction method and costs are entirely determined by the site itself - everything from foundations and structural requirements to working space restrictions to site access have massive contributing factors to the ability to build and the accuracy of the cost.  Designing without site investigations and geotech is a complete waste of time.  No civil engineer worth their salt would propose designing without actually knowing what the site conditions were (though I've seen this done, and been entertained by the look on a PM's face when detailed design commences and the cost increases are obvious due to the total lack of work further up the project life cycle)

 

Now, you can make assumptions re the purchase of the site - but that would be a pretty major assumption, given that there may be difficulties in planning etc.

 

Stadium fit-outs and training ground fit-outs - I was a QS on Leicester's back in the UK* are buttons next to the cost of building the structure, and getting the client's designer to approach subbies for pricing fit-outs to works not likely to commence any time soon is a complete and utter waste of time.  So I'm calling 'bollocks'.

 

*which is where I learned about the exciting world of PL ground floodlight requirements - which needed upgrading thanks to HD TVs ...

 

 

Edited August 11, 2025 by TheBrownBottle

[Groundhog63]

2 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

 

Go on then - I'll pull rank on this one

 

I'm a civils QS who runs a team of three dozen civils, mech and elec QSs for a client with an annual spend of AUD$3.5bn p.a. - we estimate for the entire portfolio each year.  The biggest project I've estimated on this year would absolutely dwarf (by multiples) even the craziest numbers posted on a new SJP.  I've estimated on major stadium builds over here too.

 

You can't adequately plan for anything without having a site - the construction method and costs are entirely determined by the site itself - everything from foundations and structural requirements to working space restrictions to site access have massive contributing factors to the ability to build and the accuracy of the cost.  Designing without site investigations and geotech is a complete waste of time.  No civil engineer worth their salt would propose designing without actually knowing what the site conditions were (though I've seen this done, and been entertained by the look on a PM's face when detailed design commences and the cost increases are obvious due to the total lack of work further up the project life cycle)

 

Now, you can make assumptions re the purchase of the site - but that would be a pretty major assumption, given that there may be difficulties in planning etc.

 

Stadium fit-outs (and training ground fit-outs - I was a QS on Leicester's back in the UK) are buttons next to the cost of building the structure, and getting the client's designer to approach subbies for pricing fit-outs to works not likely to commence any time soon is a complete and utter waste of time.  So I'm calling 'bollocks'.

 

Broohaa

 

I'm in the process of painting the 2nd bedroom so think I have a better handle on big projects than you. Trade Matt 2 for £26 and factored in removing the rad and wardrobes. I'm with Miles Kane on this one 

[TheBrownBottle]

Just now, Groundhog63 said:

 

Broohaa

 

I'm in the process of painting the 2nd bedroom so think I have a better handle on big projects than you. Trade Matt 2 for £26 and factored in removing the rad and wardrobes. I'm with Miles Kane on this one 

Productivity and hourly rates come into play Groundhog - this one needs good old fashioned 'first principles' estimating.  Your materials costs are only part of it .  So it depends on how much you're paying yourself and how long it takes - I'd expect a decent painter to get through about 12m2/hr per coat.  I hope you're demanding results from yourself  

[Ben]

Last time I painted the downstairs toilet it looked like I had dropped a hand grenade in a tin of paint and just walked away

[LFEE]

1 hour ago, Shadow Puppets said:

The Leazes plan is definitely the one that they’re working on like… but I don’t know what the hold up is in announcing plans.

 

In March, prior to the cup final, the players, and a lot of staff, were given a presentation on the plans and shown renderings.

 

Since the beginning of the year they have been reaching out to contractors to price up certain aspects of the fit out of both the stadium and new training ground.

 

Hopefully some form of communication comes on all of that in the next few months, once the new CEO has his feet under the desk.

 

They witnessed the parade and realised they needed something bigger than they had planned up to that point.

[TRon]

2 hours ago, TheBrownBottle said:

Even if it is true - and it doesn't sound like it to me (they're building a stadium, not the NE's answer to Area 51) - then it is a complete and utter fucking disgrace if the club's owners - worth c.1tn and 20bn respectively - go to the council for a handout for soft landscaping; especially given the bollocks that Staveley came out with re 'investment in the region' to help get the takeover approved (which so far appears to be a stake in Newcastle Airport).

 

I think the investment in the region would probably have gone hand in hand with being allowed to build NUFC into a powerhouse global brand to challenge Man U, Liverpool, Real Madrid and so on. If the authorities have put blocks on that, then I wonder if the motivation for such regional investment has also took a back seat for now. 

[madras]

40 minutes ago, Groundhog63 said:

 

Project Manager, innit 

Translation "Promised the Mrs so scared not to"

[Groundhog63]

2 minutes ago, madras said:

Translation "Promised the Mrs so scared not to"

 

[Toonpack]

39 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

 

Go on then - I'll pull rank on this one

 

I'm a civils QS who runs a team of three dozen civils, mech and elec QSs for a client with an annual spend of AUD$3.5bn p.a. - we estimate for the entire portfolio each year.  The biggest project I've estimated on this year would absolutely dwarf (by multiples) even the craziest numbers posted on a new SJP.  I've estimated on major stadium builds over here too.

 

You can't adequately plan for anything without having a site - the construction method and costs are entirely determined by the site itself - everything from foundations and structural requirements to working space restrictions to site access have massive contributing factors to the ability to build and the accuracy of the cost.  Designing without site investigations and geotech is a complete waste of time.  No civil engineer worth their salt would propose designing without actually knowing what the site conditions were (though I've seen this done, and been entertained by the look on a PM's face when detailed design commences and the cost increases are obvious due to the total lack of work further up the project life cycle)

 

Now, you can make assumptions re the purchase of the site - but that would be a pretty major assumption, given that there may be difficulties in planning etc.

 

Stadium fit-outs and training ground fit-outs - I was a QS on Leicester's back in the UK* are buttons next to the cost of building the structure, and getting the client's designer to approach subbies for pricing fit-outs to works not likely to commence any time soon is a complete and utter waste of time.  So I'm calling 'bollocks'.

 

*which is where I learned about the exciting world of PL ground floodlight requirements - which needed upgrading thanks to HD TVs ...

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I perhaps was not clear, when I said "before you get near to the site" I meant "start on the site" i.e. breaking ground. I was not inferring you do all the planning and then go "oh where will we put it".

[TheBrownBottle]

4 minutes ago, Toonpack said:

 

Sorry, I perhaps was not clear, when I said "before you get near to the site" I meant "start on the site" i.e. breaking ground. I was not inferring you do all the planning and then go "oh where will we put it".

Yeah, that’s 100% right mate 👍

[Colos Short and Curlies]

48 minutes ago, TheBrownBottle said:

 

Go on then - I'll pull rank on this one

 

I'm a civils QS who runs a team of three dozen civils, mech and elec QSs for a client with an annual spend of AUD$3.5bn p.a. - we estimate for the entire portfolio each year.  The biggest project I've estimated on this year would absolutely dwarf (by multiples) even the craziest numbers posted on a new SJP.  I've estimated on major stadium builds over here too.

 

You can't adequately plan for anything without having a site - the construction method and costs are entirely determined by the site itself - everything from foundations and structural requirements to working space restrictions to site access have massive contributing factors to the ability to build and the accuracy of the cost.  Designing without site investigations and geotech is a complete waste of time.  No civil engineer worth their salt would propose designing without actually knowing what the site conditions were (though I've seen this done, and been entertained by the look on a PM's face when detailed design commences and the cost increases are obvious due to the total lack of work further up the project life cycle)

 

Now, you can make assumptions re the purchase of the site - but that would be a pretty major assumption, given that there may be difficulties in planning etc.

 

Stadium fit-outs and training ground fit-outs - I was a QS on Leicester's back in the UK* are buttons next to the cost of building the structure, and getting the client's designer to approach subbies for pricing fit-outs to works not likely to commence any time soon is a complete and utter waste of time.  So I'm calling 'bollocks'.

 

*which is where I learned about the exciting world of PL ground floodlight requirements - which needed upgrading thanks to HD TVs ...

 

 

 

 

Would you say the club are in a bit of a chicken and egg scenario with the site/ground design?

 

They aren't going to go in on a plot of land without some assurances that they will be able to build on it, but to get the assurances they are likely to have to put some early design concepts forward to the Council?

[bobbydazzla]

40 minutes ago, Ben said:

Last time I painted the downstairs toilet it looked like I had dropped a hand grenade in a tin of paint and just walked away

 

Sort of thing I'd expect to read in the Do you appreciate a good sh*t? thread

[TheBrownBottle]

12 minutes ago, Colos Short and Curlies said:

 

Would you say the club are in a bit of a chicken and egg scenario with the site/ground design?

 

They aren't going to go in on a plot of land without some assurances that they will be able to build on it, but to get the assurances they are likely to have to put some early design concepts forward to the Council?

For projects of this nature, you can be - you’d normally do optioneering even at a pre-concept design phase, and you can allow for multiple different design options depending on ground conditions based on assumed sites.  
 

In terms of the design concepts, that’s what I’d anticipate - you would do a pre-concept design (very, very high level), and might even price it (a ‘Class 5 estimate’ according to AACE guidelines, for those who want to learn what my day job looks like).  Stadium pricing at that level usually uses ‘per seat’ as a primary unit of measurement.  But you wouldn’t be able to price much from that beyond a parametric estimate - you certainly wouldn’t have fit-out schedules for pricing. 
 

So you can definitely produce a high-level concept of the design of the stadium build itself - but the idea that you’d approach subbies years before a shovel is in the ground for fit-out costs is completely laughable; any half-decent QS could do that on a £/m2 basis, and given you would doing simple cost-planning it is an immediate red flag for people talking complete shite.

 

Re the training ground though, this is far less of a risk - you’re less likely to worry about weight loading on the foundations and so piling types, depths etc become far less of an issue.  And again, internal fit out estimates for construction builds rather than civils tend to be even more accurate - so why would you bother approaching subbies?  As a client, you would onboard a contractor who would deal with subbies.  Again, it just reeks of an attempted ITK talking complete bollocks.

 

 

Edited August 11, 2025 by TheBrownBottle

[TheBrownBottle]

43 minutes ago, TRon said:

 

I think the investment in the region would probably have gone hand in hand with being allowed to build NUFC into a powerhouse global brand to challenge Man U, Liverpool, Real Madrid and so on. If the authorities have put blocks on that, then I wonder if the motivation for such regional investment has also took a back seat for now. 

You’re possibly spot-on - or of course it was the words of a talented sales person saying exactly what was needed to help get her purchase over the line.  PIF has been silent on this since day one. 

[El Prontonise]

1 minute ago, TheBrownBottle said:

You’re possibly spot-on - or of course it was the words of a talented sales person saying exactly what was needed to help get her purchase over the line.  PIF has been silent on this since day one. 

 

PIF are only going to invest in investments that will you know make money.