Jose Mourinho - The Great Pretender

[alpal78]

Well done for another rubbish thread

 

Mourinho might not be the best around (doubt anyone can confidently claim he is), but he is definitely one of the best.

 

All this bout money is bollocks, is as if the other teams challenging for the premiership and CL don't spend loads of money. Mourinho won the title with Chelsea after they splashed out on the likes of Rooney, Ronaldo...etc and it's not like Barcelona, the previous CL champ did not spend bucketful themselves.

 

If you ignore the buying price, the value of the  Man Utd, Liverpool and to a lesser extend Arsenal teams when compared to the Chelsea team that beat them all to the title would be very close, and that's what counts, the quality fo the players available to each managers not the price of purchase (we all know that teams jack up the price by a good few millions when it involves Chelsea). Fergie was given more time to develop his team, which is why he could afford to buy the best young talent around at a cheaper price and wait for them to fulfill their potential. Roman gives Mourinho no breathing space, he wants instant success both domestically and in Europe which is why Chelsea had to buy ready made players who are consequently more expensive.

 

As for him not doing too well this season (f*** me, they've won one and are still in the running for another 3 titles), most suspect that Ballack and Sheva were largely Roman's buy. Whilst one could argue that both are world class players, their purchase forced Mourinho to change his favourite 4-3-3 which he's used bloody effectively in the past 2 seasons to a 4-4-2 and changing formations and personnel would naturally affect their performance to a  certain extend.

 

As for what Mourinho has done for Chelsea, there have been quite a few times when his subs and change of tactics got Chelsea to come from behind and win. Saying let's disregard what he has done Porto or put it down to luck is just bullshit. If you disregard all his previous successes and  chose to focus only on one or two decisions that went wrong, then you are selectively choosing the info to fit your conclusion which quite frankly is what Vic is doing. Take away all Marodona's achievement and focus on his seasons post the drug problems and you'd say he is an no use addict as opposed to a world class player, one of the best.

 

 

   

[abcdefg]

IT, this is the funniest thread I've read on this board, cheers.

[BlufPurdi]

As much as everyone's having a pop at Vic (unwarranted, in my opinion), there was a reasonable debate within this thread before it got all petty (both sides).

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

:horse:

 

[Stevie]

As much as everyone's having a pop at Vic (unwarranted, in my opinion), there was a reasonable debate within this thread before it got all petty (both sides). 

I don't think you can have a reasonable debate when someones opinion is one of the single most ridiculous things seen in the internet's 46 year history.

 

Jose is shit, nothing special about him, he's taken Chelsea to new depths, he honest makes Ian Porterfield look like Marcello Lippi etc.....etc.... pathetic....

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

As much as everyone's having a pop at Vic (unwarranted, in my opinion), there was a reasonable debate within this thread before it got all petty (both sides). 

I don't think you can have a reasonable debate when someones opinion is one of the single most ridiculous things seen in the internet's 46 year history.

 

Jose is shit, nothing special about him, he's taken Chelsea to new depths, he honest makes Ian Porterfield look like Marcello Lippi etc.....etc.... pathetic....

 

I've just realised it's not only footballing success that Stevie measures in terms of number of fans

[Stevie]

As much as everyone's having a pop at Vic (unwarranted, in my opinion), there was a reasonable debate within this thread before it got all petty (both sides). 

I don't think you can have a reasonable debate when someones opinion is one of the single most ridiculous things seen in the internet's 46 year history.

 

Jose is s***, nothing special about him, he's taken Chelsea to new depths, he honest makes Ian Porterfield look like Marcello Lippi etc.....etc.... pathetic....

 

I've just realised it's not only footballing success that Stevie measures in terms of number of fans

I could read that 1000 times and still think "what's that daft cunt on aboot noo?".

[wacko]

I don't see how anyone could doubt Mourinho's quality as a manager. His track record speaks for itself.

 

 

f****** hell I can't believe people are looking at this so simplisticly

 

I guess the general level of intelligence is more along the lines of Stevie around here

 

Fine, if you want to attribute the trophies he's won at Chelsea (for the last f****** time I don't give a s*** about Porto), that's fine

 

All I'm saying is, look at how he's fared the first time he's had to deal with a selection pressure, the first time another team has come close to matching his team (is he responsible for how well they football or something? do people really believe him when he says he made John Terry?), the buys he has made without resorting to cherry picking already established talent, the way he has dealt with not having the world's 2 first choice players in a certain position etc etc

 

If people can only see the trophies, without seeing the wider picture, that's fine...

 

Me, I prefer to look at the situations where he has actually had to do what other managers do, and actually make decisions.

You want to ignore what he did at Porto? Riiiiight. Because, having huge success at a small club (in European terms) is pretty strong evidence in favour of his being a great manager. Which doesn't fit with your idea, so best ignore it, eh?

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I don't see how anyone could doubt Mourinho's quality as a manager. His track record speaks for itself.

 

 

f****** hell I can't believe people are looking at this so simplisticly

 

I guess the general level of intelligence is more along the lines of Stevie around here

 

Fine, if you want to attribute the trophies he's won at Chelsea (for the last f****** time I don't give a s*** about Porto), that's fine

 

All I'm saying is, look at how he's fared the first time he's had to deal with a selection pressure, the first time another team has come close to matching his team (is he responsible for how well they football or something? do people really believe him when he says he made John Terry?), the buys he has made without resorting to cherry picking already established talent, the way he has dealt with not having the world's 2 first choice players in a certain position etc etc

 

If people can only see the trophies, without seeing the wider picture, that's fine...

 

Me, I prefer to look at the situations where he has actually had to do what other managers do, and actually make decisions.

You want to ignore what he did at Porto? Riiiiight. Because, having huge success at a small club (in European terms) is pretty strong evidence in favour of his being a great manager. Which doesn't fit with your idea, so best ignore it, eh?

 

I remember another tin-pot club that fluked a European championship recently

[donmaths]

 

  What is common between the 2 tin pot clubs that fluked the CL in 2004 and 2005 ? 2 decent managers.

[Nate]

What is common between the 2 tin pot clubs that fluked the CL in 2004 and 2005 ? 2 decent managers.

 

Liverpool a tin pot club?

[donmaths]

What is common between the 2 tin pot clubs that fluked the CL in 2004 and 2005 ? 2 decent managers.

 

Liverpool a tin pot club?

 

That is what invicta toon  said. BTW Porto is also not a tin-pot club.

[alpal78]

can't resist reviving this thread after yesterday's game. So he can't make decisions and is only Mr Motivator huh. Doesn't get much harder than coming from one goal behind against Valencia in the Mestella. Mourinho's switch to a 4-3-3 in the second half and putting Essien in RB was instrumental in their come from behind win. They dominated the game and won quite deservingly.

 

Chelsea might not win CL (I fancy Bayern), but if they do go down, by God they'll go down fighting.

 

The Man Utd players play for the club, but the Chelsea players play for Mourinho, would not surprise me if we see an exodus of key players from Chelsea should Mourinho leave. 

[Dave]

League Cup - Won

FA Cup - In final

Champions League - In semi-final

Premiership - 3 points off the pace with 6 games left

 

Shit manager tbh.

[Cajun]

League Cup - Won

FA Cup - In final

Champions League - In semi-final

Premiership - 3 points off the pace with 6 games left

 

Shit manager tbh.

 

But he has spent millions of pounds so he is just a motivator OMG WTF TBH!!!!!11111ONEONEONE!!!111

[Mr. Snrub]

He's still a complete fucking bellend and I'd hate it if he ever became manager of us.

[Dave]

He's still a complete fucking bellend and I'd hate it if he ever became manager of us.

 

Undoubtedly

Mental

[Cajun]

He's still a complete fucking bellend and I'd hate it if he ever became manager of us.

 

I agree would much prefer a Roeder or a Souness, what would he do with those trophies anyway! The extra cost of dusting out the trophy cabinet is starting to put me off already!

[alpal78]

A good article from Soccernet that sums some of the key points that makes Mourinho special

 

It has become a tradition for Chelsea managers to coin their own nicknames. Claudio Ranieri christened himself 'the Tinkerman' and it seemed to suit the endearingly experimental Italian. With typical bravado, Jose Mourinho announced himself as 'the Special One'. Few disagreed, yet it is when tinkering that the Portuguese has often shown himself to be special.

 

In particular, when making substitutions. It was apparent most recently when Michael Essien's rasping drive provided the 90th-minute winner in Valencia and it was no coincidence that the Ghanaian appeared on the right; Mourinho had moved him there in the half-time reshuffle that saw the introduction of Joe Cole. Nor was it the first match changed by Essien as an auxiliary, but overlapping, right-back. Marauding forward, he scored a majestic goal against Arsenal in December after his manager had brought on Shaun Wright-Phillips in a more attack-minded midfield.

 

Champions League progress is attributable, too, to Mourinho. Away in Porto, when John Terry's injury compelled his early removal, Chelsea conceded to Raul Meireles. With a rapid change of thought, Mourinho responded by making Arjen Robben the replacement for his captain and the attacking intent was justified by the immediacy of Andriy Shevchenko's equaliser. In the return leg, meanwhile, the half-time addition of John Obi Mikel, at the expense of Claude Makelele, added authority to the midfield.

 

Few of his counterparts countenance as many early substitutions as Mourinho. Robben came on after 45 minutes in the Carling Cup final, and both the change of personnel and formation were factors in the eventual overcoming of Arsenal.

 

Should he win the FA Cup, Mourinho's medal will be merited for the calm he displayed in another high-pressure situation - when Tottenham took a 3-1 lead at Stamford Bridge and Chelsea appeared to be in greater disarray than at any other part in his tenure. A first-half change appeared the consequence of injuries sustained by Terry and Didier Drogba; instead, the unhurt Paulo Ferreira was withdrawn for Wright-Phillips. Then, when Ashley Cole was replaced with half an hour remaining, Chelsea were reduced to two specialist defenders. Essien, whose flexibility makes him invaluable in rapid reshuffles, became a particularly progressive left-sided defender, and Chelsea recovered to draw 3-3.

 

Such displays of decisiveness could yet determine the Premiership title race. The substitute Salomon Kalou's winner at Watford may have been the product of desperation as Mourinho overloaded his side with attackers with victory an imperative (their final configuration at Vicarage Road has been described as a novel 3-0-7 formation), but it showed the benefits of proactive management nonetheless.

 

Making substitutions with such spectacular effect is, of course, simpler when players of the ability of Robben, Wright-Phillips, Kalou and Mikel (with a combined cost approaching £60million) are among the options. There are examples, too, of times when Mourinho's impatience and willingness to make wholescale alterations have proved ill-advised. He was rash, for instance, in making a triple change at half-time in the FA Cup at Newcastle two years ago. When Wayne Bridge was injured shortly afterwards, it left no replacements. The removal of Wright-Phillips and Joe Cole after 26 minutes in the loss at Fulham last year seemed premature, to say the least, and brought no improvement.

 

Yet Mourinho is unrivalled in his ability to change a game from the bench. Rafael Benitez may have made perhaps the finest substitution during their time in England - the introduction of Dietmar Hamann in Istanbul, leading to a remarkable comeback - while Sir Alex Ferguson still possesses one of the great replacements, Ole Gunnar Solskjaer. Arsene Wenger, meanwhile, merely appears increasingly flustered on the touchline, rather summoning a saviour from the dugout.

 

None have changed the course of so many matches, but it hasn't been required. Chelsea's habit of conceding first in significant games, whether to Arsenal, Tottenham, Porto or Valencia, has meant that their manager has needed to act.

 

He has displayed an authority as well as the ability to communicate quickly to players about their new brief. That, in turn, requires footballers adaptable enough to respond to very different demands. Essien, in particular, has shown that, while Robben and Cole provide innumerable options in the final third.

 

For Mourinho, it also necessitates complete faith in his own judgment, not that the Portuguese ever appears to question that. Instead, each change is a microcosm of him: bold, brash and normally successful, applying original thinking to a tactical dilemma and displaying that, while his own playing career was insignificant, his understanding of the game has not suffered.

 

It also shows a gambler's instinct and a willingness to raise the stakes with an unorthodox move. Much of Chelsea's success in their first two seasons under Mourinho came from the control they exerted, an impenetrable defence making them the masters of the 1-0 win. In a more demanding environment, Mourinho has found himself challenged more, and has flourished.

 

It has brought recognition, too: witness the glowing tributes paid by Terry and Frank Lampard.

 

Theirs is a manager who relishes the mental battle as well as the verbal one. The Champions League semi-final pits him against Benitez, a tactician of the highest calibre in Europe. When Chelsea visited Anfield at the equivalent stage two years ago, they ended up with Robert Huth in attack.

 

Given his recent replacements, Mourinho may be a better manager now. And yet he may not be Chelsea's manager for much longer, hugs with Roman Abramovich notwithstanding. It is easy to level the accusation that success has been bought. But, though money can procure players, it cannot produce the spirit Mourinho has forged or display the ability to transform defeat into victory from the bench.

Should Abramovich substitute Jose Mourinho in the summer, Chelsea could lose that capacity. And whoever he gets, they surely won't be a like-for-like replacement.

[Guest Invicta_Toon]

I see how throwing forwards on late when you've failed to bury the bottom club, and passing notes to your team on the sly might be seen as genius

[Northern Monkey]

I see how throwing forwards on late when you've failed to bury the bottom club, and passing notes to your team on the sly might be seen as genius

 

Who in the Premier League DO you think is a top manager?

[alpal78]

I see how throwing forwards on late when you've failed to bury the bottom club, and passing notes to your team on the sly might be seen as genius

 

Selective reading, of all Mourinho tactical changes mentioned in the article (away in Velancia, both legs against Porto, Carling Cup final...etc), Vic harps on the Watford game. Boring but unexpected.

[Northern Monkey]

I'm still waiting for a response, but he might be busy re-writing history to try to make his mate Roeder appear competent.

[Guest alex]

I'm still waiting for a response, but he might be busy re-writing history to try to make his mate Roeder appear competent.

Don't hold your breath.

[Northern Monkey]

I'm still waiting for a response, but he might be busy re-writing history to try to make his mate Roeder appear competent.

Don't hold your breath.

 

I can't. Smoked for years, got lungs like raisins.