.com on Allardyce

[Dave]

Felt it was worth highlighting.

 

Sam - a view

 

The current popular view seems to be that were are inevitably heading towards a union with free agent Sam Allardyce.

 

Just in case there's an ounce of truth in that story, we feel compelled to say that we're not totally beside ourselves with excitement over this, for the following reasons:

 

The Panorama programme:

 

We're not going to attract any lawsuits by commenting on the allegations, but let's recall that the eyebrows raised about Allardyce stemmed from comments made on camera by his own son, Craig.

 

Kevin Bond seems to have been shown the door at SJP as a result of a far less substantial afterthought tagged on the end of the same programme.

 

(NB: There's been no sign of the threatened legal action from Allardyce against the BBC as yet. His son is no longer an agent and was last reported as being involved the Spanish property market).

 

Style of play:

 

While we've never subscribed to the popular notion that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win a sterile contest 1-0, Allardyce has long been associated with some rotten football of a type we've not seen since Jack Charlton bought Cunningham & Reilly and put the squeeze on Waddle and Beardsley.

 

Will a team of long-throw specialists and dead-ball experts fill 60,000 seats?

 

Will a no-nonsense approach really get our players into line? Souness couldn't pull it off.

 

Signings & Spending:

 

Allardyce to date has been good with small budgets, buying older players and wringing the very last drops of effort out of them. Hopes are a little higher here - just.

 

The signing of Nicolas Anelka was hailed as by far his biggest deal - a player repeatedly touted to Newcastle, but sent on his bike for numerous valid reasons, only for Bolton to take him.

 

Either the player's outrageous demands were toned down - or Bolton were prepared to meet them.

 

What could he do with a bigger budget? Who knows? He remains unproven at a big club with a large fan base with big (unrealistic? possibly) expectations.

 

The Cult of Personality:

 

One of the least attractive traits Allardyce shows is a rent-a-quote tendency to shout the odds, especially when Sky cameras are rolling.

 

When speaking from an LMA perspective, his vocal opposition to Roeder's permanent appointment at SJP verged on the obnoxious, while referring to oneself in the third person as "Big Sam" in  his Bolton programme notes spoke volumes.

 

Some shameless self-promotion when he thought he would replace Sven as the next England manager was also unbecoming.

 

Allardyce's genuine incredulity at not being appointed suggested a frightening degree of self- absorption. That comes across as big -headedness at times.

 

No, No, Yes:

 

Allardyce has already turned us down after Sir Bobby Robson and his putter were given their cards. Why? He obviously thought that he was at a better club then - or needed to give his chairman a nudge to open his wallet.

 

(Note that we have it on decent authority that Allardyce has twice turned down the chance to take over at SJP - the second one presumably being post-Souness.)

 

Has our stock really fallen so much and is this guy so wonderful that we'll now go back for a third time? 

 

Red & White eyes:

 

He's an ex-mackem. OK, that's not a reason to avoid employing an outstanding manager or player - we'd have welcomed Brian Clough at the height of his managerial powers.

 

For a section of the fanbase though, this remains another obstacle Allardyce would have to overcome before gaining acceptance.

 

Young Man:

 

Bolton's reserve side have just won the league. They played Newcastle on Tyneside in March, lining up with a side composed of two Poles, two Slovaks, an Israeli, an Iranian, a Portuguese, a Spaniard and three Englishmen.

 

Allardyce has shown he's prepared to bring young players into the first team, but not necessarily local young players.

 

Without lapsing into John Hall Geordie Nation rhetoric - is this important to us or not?

 

On the other hand:

 

His on-field organisation is undeniable, even if some of his purchases are less than savoury (Diouf in a black and white shirt anyone?).

 

The signing of Gary Speed and his consequent Reebok renaissance is interesting, both in terms of what Allarydce achieved and also that one of the most respected professionals still playing was content under Sam's stewardship.

 

Trying to look in from the outside, to turn our noses up at Allardyce for perceived stylistic shortcomings is verging on the pious.

 

After all, his side has finished above us in the league for the last three seasons and we've hardly been reproducing Brazil '70 on a weekly basis.

 

There are echoes of Arthur Cox's appointment, when people were openly disappointed that big names like McMenemy, Paisley, Clough, Robson etc. weren't coming to SJP.

 

Then, as now, why the hell would they come here?

 

Unlike the Souness and Roeder appointments, our inbox isn't bulging with emails from fans of their previous clubs warning of the dire consequences of employing their ex.

 

The NUFC.com get out clause:

 

So who do we suggest then? Simple. We suggest no-one. No internet campaigns, no online petitions. Nein Danke.

 

If someone wants to pay us the Chairman's wages then we will happily scour the planet to unearth the next Arsene Wenger.

 

Until then though we'll try to present a vaguely coherent and independent viewpoint, rather than just recycling other people's views or writing things to please those in power.

 

Our gut feeling remains the same though as it did the day Bobby departed - the whole thing needs overhauling from top to bottom.

[Guest smoggeordie]

Felt it was worth highlighting.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Sam - a view

 

The current popular view seems to be that were are inevitably heading towards a union with free agent Sam Allardyce.

 

Just in case there's an ounce of truth in that story, we feel compelled to say that we're not totally beside ourselves with excitement over this, for the following reasons:

 

The Panorama programme:

 

We're not going to attract any lawsuits by commenting on the allegations, but let's recall that the eyebrows raised about Allardyce stemmed from comments made on camera by his own son, Craig.

 

Kevin Bond seems to have been shown the door at SJP as a result of a far less substantial afterthought tagged on the end of the same programme.

 

(NB: There's been no sign of the threatened legal action from Allardyce against the BBC as yet. His son is no longer an agent and was last reported as being involved the Spanish property market).

 

Style of play:

 

While we've never subscribed to the popular notion that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win a sterile contest 1-0, Allardyce has long been associated with some rotten football of a type we've not seen since Jack Charlton bought Cunningham & Reilly and put the squeeze on Waddle and Beardsley.

 

Will a team of long-throw specialists and dead-ball experts fill 60,000 seats?

 

Will a no-nonsense approach really get our players into line? Souness couldn't pull it off.

 

Signings & Spending:

 

Allardyce to date has been good with small budgets, buying older players and wringing the very last drops of effort out of them. Hopes are a little higher here - just.

 

The signing of Nicolas Anelka was hailed as by far his biggest deal - a player repeatedly touted to Newcastle, but sent on his bike for numerous valid reasons, only for Bolton to take him.

 

Either the player's outrageous demands were toned down - or Bolton were prepared to meet them.

 

What could he do with a bigger budget? Who knows? He remains unproven at a big club with a large fan base with big (unrealistic? possibly) expectations.

 

The Cult of Personality:

 

One of the least attractive traits Allardyce shows is a rent-a-quote tendency to shout the odds, especially when Sky cameras are rolling.

 

When speaking from an LMA perspective, his vocal opposition to Roeder's permanent appointment at SJP verged on the obnoxious, while referring to oneself in the third person as "Big Sam" in  his Bolton programme notes spoke volumes.

 

Some shameless self-promotion when he thought he would replace Sven as the next England manager was also unbecoming.

 

Allardyce's genuine incredulity at not being appointed suggested a frightening degree of self- absorption. That comes across as big -headedness at times.

 

No, No, Yes:

 

Allardyce has already turned us down after Sir Bobby Robson and his putter were given their cards. Why? He obviously thought that he was at a better club then - or needed to give his chairman a nudge to open his wallet.

 

(Note that we have it on decent authority that Allardyce has twice turned down the chance to take over at SJP - the second one presumably being post-Souness.)

 

Has our stock really fallen so much and is this guy so wonderful that we'll now go back for a third time? 

 

Red & White eyes:

 

He's an ex-mackem. OK, that's not a reason to avoid employing an outstanding manager or player - we'd have welcomed Brian Clough at the height of his managerial powers.

 

For a section of the fanbase though, this remains another obstacle Allardyce would have to overcome before gaining acceptance.

 

Young Man:

 

Bolton's reserve side have just won the league. They played Newcastle on Tyneside in March, lining up with a side composed of two Poles, two Slovaks, an Israeli, an Iranian, a Portuguese, a Spaniard and three Englishmen.

 

Allardyce has shown he's prepared to bring young players into the first team, but not necessarily local young players.

 

Without lapsing into John Hall Geordie Nation rhetoric - is this important to us or not?

 

On the other hand:

 

His on-field organisation is undeniable, even if some of his purchases are less than savoury (Diouf in a black and white shirt anyone?).

 

The signing of Gary Speed and his consequent Reebok renaissance is interesting, both in terms of what Allarydce achieved and also that one of the most respected professionals still playing was content under Sam's stewardship.

 

Trying to look in from the outside, to turn our noses up at Allardyce for perceived stylistic shortcomings is verging on the pious.

 

After all, his side has finished above us in the league for the last three seasons and we've hardly been reproducing Brazil '70 on a weekly basis.

 

There are echoes of Arthur Cox's appointment, when people were openly disappointed that big names like McMenemy, Paisley, Clough, Robson etc. weren't coming to SJP.

 

Then, as now, why the hell would they come here?

 

Unlike the Souness and Roeder appointments, our inbox isn't bulging with emails from fans of their previous clubs warning of the dire consequences of employing their ex.

 

The NUFC.com get out clause:

 

So who do we suggest then? Simple. We suggest no-one. No internet campaigns, no online petitions. Nein Danke.

 

If someone wants to pay us the Chairman's wages then we will happily scour the planet to unearth the next Arsene Wenger.

 

Until then though we'll try to present a vaguely coherent and independent viewpoint, rather than just recycling other people's views or writing things to please those in power.

 

Our gut feeling remains the same though as it did the day Bobby departed - the whole thing needs overhauling from top to bottom.[/glow]

 

 

[Cajun]

Nothing new. Same old stuff spouted about Allardyce but with a few bold headers.

[Rich]

Was going to post this up as well. Quite a decent little read that possibly offers a fairly more realistic/balanced outlook on the potential appointment of Allardyce than I've seen from anyone on Newcastle-Online so far. When Biffa's in the mood he can still churn-out some quality stuff and his latest match report (Reading) was another pleasure to take-in. "Sitting on the fence" is quite possibly the main thing that a lot of people will take from it and NUFC.com don't really seem to be committing either way. The real question that arises, though, if Roeder does leave are there genuinely better alternatives to Allardyce that we could attract here?

 

Big Sam appeals to me more than anything because of  the fact that he'd surely instigate big changes within the club from top-to-bottom, rather than just come in and "manage" like Souness and Roeder have done since Robson. Is there anyone else available who could offer the same?

[NUFC06]

There are alot of good managers we can attract but Shepherd will never turn to them(Koeman,Hector Cuper,Juande Ramos)

Ultimately Allardyce is miles better then Roeder and there is no need to stick with the rat when we have the chance to replace him with someone better.

[Cronky]

They've obviously put a lot of thought into the article, but they spoilt it for me by mixing up some valid points against Allardyce (Panorama, over-physical style of play) with some invalid ones (Ex - Mackem, Cult of Personality).

 

It's also disappointing that after producing a much longer list of factors against than factors for, they decided to sit on the fence. We either go for him, or we don't.

 

On the England manager job, it was said afterwards that if the appointment had been decided on the quality of the presentation and interview, then Allardyce would have won it hands down. He may look like a used car salesman, but I think there's a clever and enterprising mind there. He's been able to work with experienced players from different nationalities, and get them on board with his beliefs and tactics. You can't do that if you're a thicko.

 

My main reservation is that Bolton at times looked like a dirty side. I can remember one cup game against Arsenal where they'd clearly set out to systematically kick lumps out of the opposition.

 

It's all about opportunities though, and I think this is one that we should take.

[Parky]

Nothing great about that article whatsoever. Well constructed no insight.

[SEMTEX]

So who do we suggest then? Simple. We suggest no-one. No internet campaigns, no online petitions. Nein Danke.

 

snipe?

[Dave]

Of course it is.

[Parky]

Was going to post this up as well. Quite a decent little read that possibly offers a fairly more realistic/balanced outlook on the potential appointment of Allardyce than I've seen from anyone on Newcastle-Online so far. When Biffa's in the mood he can still churn-out some quality stuff and his latest match report (Reading) was another pleasure to take-in. "Sitting on the fence" is quite possibly the main thing that a lot of people will take from it and NUFC.com don't really seem to be committing either way. The real question that arises, though, if Roeder does leave are there genuinely better alternatives to Allardyce that we could attract here?

 

Big Sam appeals to me more than anything because of  the fact that he'd surely instigate big changes within the club from top-to-bottom, rather than just come in and "manage" like Souness and Roeder have done since Robson. Is there anyone else available who could offer the same?

 

Trappatoni would make a good DOF as would Houllier, they are the types who like a good overhaul.

 

 

[Guest alex]

Nothing great about that article whatsoever. Well constructed no insight.

Correct.

[SEMTEX]

Of course it is.

 

lets gan deck em

 

i'll meet you at manors in 10.

 

p.s. i've just noticed the German! witty! i like it.

[Guest ChickenKiev]

I'd be devastated if we got Sam. Surely Fat Fred isn't that stupid to make 3 huge mistakes in a row!!!

[80]

I don't think they're sitting on the fence in the slightest in private. They've made various remarks over the past couple of years in Bolton match reports that have essentially suggested anyone who would want Allardyce would have to be a mad idiot. I may be talking balls, but perhaps they feel they're influential and don't want to prejudice Allardyce's (possible) coming time at NUFC.

[Cronky]

Sam - a view

 

The Cult of Personality:

 

One of the least attractive traits Allardyce shows is a rent-a-quote tendency to shout the odds, especially when Sky cameras are rolling.

 

When speaking from an LMA perspective, his vocal opposition to Roeder's permanent appointment at SJP verged on the obnoxious, while referring to oneself in the third person as "Big Sam" in  his Bolton programme notes spoke volumes.

 

Some shameless self-promotion when he thought he would replace Sven as the next England manager was also unbecoming.

 

Allardyce's genuine incredulity at not being appointed suggested a frightening degree of self- absorption. That comes across as big -headedness at times.

 

No, No, Yes:

 

Allardyce has already turned us down after Sir Bobby Robson and his putter were given their cards. Why? He obviously thought that he was at a better club then - or needed to give his chairman a nudge to open his wallet.

 

(Note that we have it on decent authority that Allardyce has twice turned down the chance to take over at SJP - the second one presumably being post-Souness.)

 

Has our stock really fallen so much and is this guy so wonderful that we'll now go back for a third time?  

 

 

These sections are crap. He doesn't come across as conceited at all. He knows his worth, and he's prepared to go for the top job, but that's just a measure of his confidence. We need a big personality who can impose himself, in the way that Keegan did.

 

I take nothing but encouragement from the fact that he turned us down twice. He clearly saw that the conditions at the club weren't right, and wasn't tempted by the idea of moving to a bigger club for (presumably) more money. The man clearly knows what he wants.

 

[Guest TheOrder]

What a crock of shite.

[Guest graemeh72]

perhaps they feel they're influential and don't want to prejudice Allardyce's (possible) coming time at NUFC.

 

Thats pretty much it.

 

Without putting words in dot coms mouth ..... Biffa and Niall don't want to be seen as swaying peoples opinions.

 

Sack Souness / Robson / Roeder, or Appoint Sven/ Hitzfeld / Allardyce campaign isn't their style - but if people want to do that - then fine

 

They are keen for toon fans to make up their own minds without overt influence, dot com aim to present the "goings on" as they see it - but very rarely (bowyer except) do they use the website to express their own views.

 

 

 

[Guest londonmaglad]

I actually looked byond the words. In the main (and yes, they have made mistakes) they wouldn't comment on this unless they know something. ?

[Cajun]

I'd be devastated if we got Sam. Surely Fat Fred isn't that stupid to make 3 huge mistakes in a row!!!

 

Without listing off a bunch of myths why wouldn't you want Allardyce here? He is exactly what we need at the moment. Someone who can build foundations for a succesful future whilst being able to get the best out of players and playing effective future in the present.

[Cajun]

I don't think they are sitting on the fence at all, they don't really want Allardyce and the article is as masked as a Roeder "I won't blame injuries..." comment.

[Guest ChickenKiev]

I'd be devastated if we got Sam. Surely Fat Fred isn't that stupid to make 3 huge mistakes in a row!!!

 

Without listing off a bunch of myths why wouldn't you want Allardyce here? He is exactly what we need at the moment. Someone who can build foundations for a succesful future whilst being able to get the best out of players and playing effective future in the present.

 

Mainly for this reason:

 

Style of play:

 

While we've never subscribed to the popular notion that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win a sterile contest 1-0, Allardyce has long been associated with some rotten football of a type we've not seen since Jack Charlton bought Cunningham & Reilly and put the squeeze on Waddle and Beardsley.

 

Will a team of long-throw specialists and dead-ball experts fill 60,000 seats?

 

Will a no-nonsense approach really get our players into line? Souness couldn't pull it off.

[Guest alex]

The dig at the Hitzfeld campaign is a bit crass imo and it's not the first time they've alluded to this place in an article. Probably see this and the main site as a bit of a threat imo. And whatever you think about the rights and wrongs of the Hitzfeld campaign at least the people involved were trying to do something to benefit NUFC. I can't stand the miserable wankers at .com anymore. Typical of their negativity without insight or solutions.

[Cajun]

Read my first 7 words

[Cajun]

The dig at the Hitzfeld campaign is a bit crass imo and it's not the first time they've alluded to this place in an article. Probably see this and the main site as a bit of a threat imo. And whatever you think about the rights and wrongs of the Hitzfeld campaign at least the people involved were trying to do something to benefit NUFC. I can't stand the miserable wankers at .com anymore. Typical of their negativity without insight or solutions.

 

Alex begging to join the "dark side" what next!?

[NUFC06]

I'd be devastated if we got Sam. Surely Fat Fred isn't that stupid to make 3 huge mistakes in a row!!!

 

Without listing off a bunch of myths why wouldn't you want Allardyce here? He is exactly what we need at the moment. Someone who can build foundations for a succesful future whilst being able to get the best out of players and playing effective future in the present.

 

Mainly for this reason:

 

Style of play:

 

While we've never subscribed to the popular notion that Newcastle fans would rather lose 4-3 than win a sterile contest 1-0, Allardyce has long been associated with some rotten football of a type we've not seen since Jack Charlton bought Cunningham & Reilly and put the squeeze on Waddle and Beardsley.

 

Will a team of long-throw specialists and dead-ball experts fill 60,000 seats?

 

Will a no-nonsense approach really get our players into line? Souness couldn't pull it off.

 

Under Souness and Roeder we are playing the worst football this club has played in the last 20 years