Guest bimpy474 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 you know, i'm saying all this after watching it a couple of times the other night while rather hammered. need to see it again i suppose but i was sure he was offside when WE played it in. He was, right behind Evans and right in front of De Gea's eyeline. It shows what a mess the rules are now, but as it stands in the rules its a goal (i ref). was he onside or offside though as simpson played it in ? Neither, as the rules stand, as long as he doesn't touch the ball he can stand where he likes as long as it isn't interfering with play. (ie stood on say De Gea's toes). The rule in my opinion is mental but as it stands its a correct one. (i dont agree with it fwiw). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 you know, i'm saying all this after watching it a couple of times the other night while rather hammered. need to see it again i suppose but i was sure he was offside when WE played it in. He WAS offside. The rule is you don't become ACTIVE in the offside until you touch the ball. even in the old rules- you were never offside when the defender played the ball. yeah the linesman would flag back then, but the ref would allow play to go- IF the Defender played the ball, not the attacker. i've been talking about when simpson played the ball in. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 you know, i'm saying all this after watching it a couple of times the other night while rather hammered. need to see it again i suppose but i was sure he was offside when WE played it in. He was, right behind Evans and right in front of De Gea's eyeline. It shows what a mess the rules are now, but as it stands in the rules its a goal (i ref). was he onside or offside though as simpson played it in ? Neither, as the rules stand, as long as he doesn't touch the ball he can stand where he likes as long as it isn't interfering with play. (ie stood on say De Gea's toes). The rule in my opinion is mental but as it stands its a correct one. (i dont agree with it fwiw). as i said before it's the interfering bit that is ambiguous here and as i see it it's a goal but 100% of the times i've seen it happen the free kick has been given. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cp40 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 you know, i'm saying all this after watching it a couple of times the other night while rather hammered. need to see it again i suppose but i was sure he was offside when WE played it in. He WAS offside. The rule is you don't become ACTIVE in the offside until you touch the ball. even in the old rules- you were never offside when the defender played the ball. yeah the linesman would flag back then, but the ref would allow play to go- IF the Defender played the ball, not the attacker. i've been talking about when simpson played the ball in. though he is standing in an offside position, He cant be penalised for offside, if the defender plays the ball first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parsley Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 It's a sad state of affairs when this needlessly complicated offside rule is being used to divert attention from what was a defensive fuck up from Evans imo. He goes to ground to clear the ball, not because of any pressure applied by Cisse, and sends it into his own net. It is a poor clearance. Even if Cisse was onside, there's no doubt in my mind that Evans would've also gone to ground. For me, Ferguson is splitting hairs in what is a notoriously grey area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 you know, i'm saying all this after watching it a couple of times the other night while rather hammered. need to see it again i suppose but i was sure he was offside when WE played it in. He WAS offside. The rule is you don't become ACTIVE in the offside until you touch the ball. even in the old rules- you were never offside when the defender played the ball. yeah the linesman would flag back then, but the ref would allow play to go- IF the Defender played the ball, not the attacker. i've been talking about when simpson played the ball in. though he is standing in an offside position, He cant be penalised for offside, if the defender plays the ball first. yes he can if he's deemed to be interfering with play, we see it every game. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pedro111 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 My god, just had a saunter over to redcafe to read their take on things. Horrible bunch of fuckers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 My god, just had a saunter over to redcafe to read their take on things. Horrible bunch of fuckers. Can you read mandarin like ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 It's a sad state of affairs when this needlessly complicated offside rule is being used to divert attention from what was a defensive fuck up from Evans imo. He goes to ground to clear the ball, not because of any pressure applied by Cisse, and sends it into his own net. It is a poor clearance. Even if Cisse was onside, there's no doubt in my mind that Evans would've also gone to ground. For me, Ferguson is splitting hairs in what is a notoriously grey area. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Nessy crashes the banter bus. :lol: Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hanshithispantz Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 http://www.fifa.com/mm/document/afdeveloping/refereeing/law_11_offside_en_47383.pdf Page 17. It could go either way really, but I cannot see how it would have made a difference to Evans' decision making and the overall outcome. Had Cisse not been there Evans would still have tried to clear the ball, it's not like he would have let it run through, that would have been idiotic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You only have to look at Evans' reaction to know it wasn't a foul or offside. He fucked up and knew it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superior Acuña Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 from what i saw both players laid hands on each other but neither enough to really hinder the other so it comes down to a straight offside decision and this is where it gets awkward. imo evans didn't position himself to play cisse offside so in that sense cisse wasn't interfering with play as he neither touched the ball or affected the positioning of the defender. goal for me but it's one that is always given as offside. the rule needs to be changed to you're offside if in an offside position regardless of interfering with play or you have to touch the ball to be offside. both have their faults but it makes the rule 10o% clear so we all know where we stand. Madras- your not offside if the defender plays the ball- wherever you stand. yes you are as he was offside when our player played the ball in. the offside doesnt apply when the defending team play the ball. cisse was offside when we played the ball before evans touched it. But you only flag when the offside receives the ball. That's why you get fans prematurely going mental at linesmen because they've not flagged yet, it was clarified a few years ago. Anyway, re Ferguson, whether the decision is correct is irrelevant. The fact that it was correct or at worst ambiguous only makes it more embarrassing for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 you know, i'm saying all this after watching it a couple of times the other night while rather hammered. need to see it again i suppose but i was sure he was offside when WE played it in. He was, right behind Evans and right in front of De Gea's eyeline. It shows what a mess the rules are now, but as it stands in the rules its a goal (i ref). was he onside or offside though as simpson played it in ? Neither, as the rules stand, as long as he doesn't touch the ball he can stand where he likes as long as it isn't interfering with play. (ie stood on say De Gea's toes). The rule in my opinion is mental but as it stands its a correct one. (i dont agree with it fwiw). as i said before it's the interfering bit that is ambiguous here and as i see it it's a goal but 100% of the times i've seen it happen the free kick has been given. I agree with you but as a ref you are taught to disregard offside as you would normally see it. If you think its hard enough for pro ref's just think of a Saturday or Sunday League ref who has no linesman, and when he does he generally has biased linesman form each club playing. It mental and as usual FIFA have no thought for grassroots football and the effects they take. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 from what i saw both players laid hands on each other but neither enough to really hinder the other so it comes down to a straight offside decision and this is where it gets awkward. imo evans didn't position himself to play cisse offside so in that sense cisse wasn't interfering with play as he neither touched the ball or affected the positioning of the defender. goal for me but it's one that is always given as offside. the rule needs to be changed to you're offside if in an offside position regardless of interfering with play or you have to touch the ball to be offside. both have their faults but it makes the rule 10o% clear so we all know where we stand. Madras- your not offside if the defender plays the ball- wherever you stand. yes you are as he was offside when our player played the ball in. the offside doesnt apply when the defending team play the ball. cisse was offside when we played the ball before evans touched it. But you only flag when the offside receives the ball. That's why you get fans prematurely going mental at linesmen because they've not flagged yet, it was clarified a few years ago. i meant in an offside position. i've already stated twice in here that imo it's a goal but in almost every occasion that this has arisen the free kick has been given. (problem is it got side tracked by many saying "can't be offside if the defernder hits it") Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You only have to look at Evans' reaction to know it wasn't a foul or offside. He fucked up and knew it. Tbf to Evans he wouldn't have clue if it was offside or not, he just fecked it up. The argument seems to be whether Cisse being there made him feck it up. I dont think so for the reasons you already said, Evans's reaction. Imo fwiw, Cisse is on the 6 yard box right in front of the GK, that has to be influencing things in defenders thinking, but the rules are right as they stand and its a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinho lad Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You only have to look at Evans' reaction to know it wasn't a foul or offside. He fucked up and knew it. Exactly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 from what i saw both players laid hands on each other but neither enough to really hinder the other so it comes down to a straight offside decision and this is where it gets awkward. imo evans didn't position himself to play cisse offside so in that sense cisse wasn't interfering with play as he neither touched the ball or affected the positioning of the defender. goal for me but it's one that is always given as offside. the rule needs to be changed to you're offside if in an offside position regardless of interfering with play or you have to touch the ball to be offside. both have their faults but it makes the rule 10o% clear so we all know where we stand. Madras- your not offside if the defender plays the ball- wherever you stand. yes you are as he was offside when our player played the ball in. the offside doesnt apply when the defending team play the ball. cisse was offside when we played the ball before evans touched it. But you only flag when the offside receives the ball. That's why you get fans prematurely going mental at linesmen because they've not flagged yet, it was clarified a few years ago. i meant in an offside position. i've already stated twice in here that imo it's a goal but in almost every occasion that this has arisen the free kick has been given. (problem is it got side tracked by many saying "can't be offside if the defernder hits it") Your not taking in the "no such thing as offside" mate, offside only comes into play if a ball reaches a player who then becomes active. As i said before you can stand 20 yards behind a defence and not be offside. Its mental. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Those who say it was offside say Cisse being there meant Evans had to play the ball he was therefore active, no mention that Evans was fouling Cisse at the time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Those who say it was offside say Cisse being there meant Evans had to play the ball he was therefore active, no mention that Evans was fouling Cisse at the time. A foul is an opinion in the view of the ref or linesman, Cisse being there was a fact. fwiw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 from what i saw both players laid hands on each other but neither enough to really hinder the other so it comes down to a straight offside decision and this is where it gets awkward. imo evans didn't position himself to play cisse offside so in that sense cisse wasn't interfering with play as he neither touched the ball or affected the positioning of the defender. goal for me but it's one that is always given as offside. the rule needs to be changed to you're offside if in an offside position regardless of interfering with play or you have to touch the ball to be offside. both have their faults but it makes the rule 10o% clear so we all know where we stand. Madras- your not offside if the defender plays the ball- wherever you stand. yes you are as he was offside when our player played the ball in. the offside doesnt apply when the defending team play the ball. cisse was offside when we played the ball before evans touched it. But you only flag when the offside receives the ball. That's why you get fans prematurely going mental at linesmen because they've not flagged yet, it was clarified a few years ago. i meant in an offside position. i've already stated twice in here that imo it's a goal but in almost every occasion that this has arisen the free kick has been given. (problem is it got side tracked by many saying "can't be offside if the defernder hits it") Your not taking in the "no such thing as offside" mate, offside only comes into play if a ball reaches a player who then becomes active. As i said before you can stand 20 yards behind a defence and not be offside. Its mental. and thats where it gets murkier as we've seen plenty of offside given against players follwing up goalkeeping fumbles (when the goal would have stood if the keeper hadn't save dit), an example of the player becoming active but also plenty of offsides given particularly after dead balls which have been cleared then put back in and the flag goes up against anyone in an offside position in the box. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You only have to look at Evans' reaction to know it wasn't a foul or offside. He f***ed up and knew it. Tbf to Evans he wouldn't have clue if it was offside or not, he just fecked it up. The argument seems to be whether Cisse being there made him feck it up. I dont think so for the reasons you already said, Evans's reaction. Imo fwiw, Cisse is on the 6 yard box right in front of the GK, that has to be influencing things in defenders thinking, but the rules are right as they stand and its a goal. Defenders scream offside all the time, Evans just knew it was a goal. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 Those who say it was offside say Cisse being there meant Evans had to play the ball he was therefore active, no mention that Evans was fouling Cisse at the time. A foul is an opinion in the view of the ref or linesman, Cisse being there was a fact. fwiw. I guess had it been against us we would be furious and be screaming he was offside BUT laws of the game mean its a goal.. Its about time we went back to offside is offside end of. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 from what i saw both players laid hands on each other but neither enough to really hinder the other so it comes down to a straight offside decision and this is where it gets awkward. imo evans didn't position himself to play cisse offside so in that sense cisse wasn't interfering with play as he neither touched the ball or affected the positioning of the defender. goal for me but it's one that is always given as offside. the rule needs to be changed to you're offside if in an offside position regardless of interfering with play or you have to touch the ball to be offside. both have their faults but it makes the rule 10o% clear so we all know where we stand. Madras- your not offside if the defender plays the ball- wherever you stand. yes you are as he was offside when our player played the ball in. the offside doesnt apply when the defending team play the ball. cisse was offside when we played the ball before evans touched it. But you only flag when the offside receives the ball. That's why you get fans prematurely going mental at linesmen because they've not flagged yet, it was clarified a few years ago. i meant in an offside position. i've already stated twice in here that imo it's a goal but in almost every occasion that this has arisen the free kick has been given. (problem is it got side tracked by many saying "can't be offside if the defernder hits it") Your not taking in the "no such thing as offside" mate, offside only comes into play if a ball reaches a player who then becomes active. As i said before you can stand 20 yards behind a defence and not be offside. Its mental. and thats where it gets murkier as we've seen plenty of offside given against players follwing up goalkeeping fumbles (when the goal would have stood if the keeper hadn't save dit), an example of the player becoming active but also plenty of offsides given particularly after dead balls which have been cleared then put back in and the flag goes up against anyone in an offside position in the box. Its is indeed murky mate, it makes no sense to me as someone who has played for 30 years and reffed for the last few. In January back to do a full ref's course and i'll keep you updated on it. I quit the last time after an argument with the instructor about this very thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bimpy474 Posted December 28, 2012 Share Posted December 28, 2012 You only have to look at Evans' reaction to know it wasn't a foul or offside. He f***ed up and knew it. Tbf to Evans he wouldn't have clue if it was offside or not, he just fecked it up. The argument seems to be whether Cisse being there made him feck it up. I dont think so for the reasons you already said, Evans's reaction. Imo fwiw, Cisse is on the 6 yard box right in front of the GK, that has to be influencing things in defenders thinking, but the rules are right as they stand and its a goal. Defenders scream offside all the time, Evans just knew it was a goal. Aye, i agreed with Dave about Evans's reaction, just didn't think Evans himself knew either way. Hence the slice imo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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