Dave Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 If someone wants to stump up the cash for the licence (or indeed a legal challenge), we're all ears. I won't hold my breath. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Serious breach of copyright here FYI: http://www.newcastle-online.com/category/match-reports/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 The whole fucking point is that this is a very grey area. The eu has actually said that it is illegal for them to copyright them, but the fact remains that none of that actually matters if all it takes is a threatening letter from a solicitor to our host to have us shut down. This is the reality of the situation. So you can argue about it all you like, but if you post something that resembles a fixture list you're gonna get banned. Sorry, but that's how it is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
UV Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Just because the whole legality of this issue is a grey area, it doesn't mean to say the rules about where you are going to draw the line on this site "to be safe" should be. Some people have had posts deleted for simply mentioning 4 or 5 upcoming games, others haven't. No-one knows where the line is drawn between discussing the next few games and printing "a fixture list". It's up to the whims of the mods at the time. Pin it down. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 As dave says unless and until someone takes the case right through the courts (or the law is changed) then those with the biggest pockets can frighten the rest of us Didn't the racecourses try it on with the Sporting life etc a few years ago - but they just stopped publishing those races, the bookies were in uproar and a deal was quickly done Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest elbee909 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 If someone wants to stump up the cash for the licence (or indeed a legal challenge), we're all ears. I won't hold my breath. N-O has never got its act together regarding user donations etc. so that's a little unfair. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbydazzla Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 not blaming the owners of this site but the situation is a fecking joke. what the hell is going in on football you can't mention fixtures, games being played abroad, loads of clubs are owned by foreigners with little knowledge of the game, moving images around the sides of pitches, no more saturday 3pm games. the game is being raped by money men. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob W Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 well their income is £ 7.5 million a year - I guess they'd risk a couple of years of that to defend their position so we'd be in for legal costs up to around £ 10- £15 million if we lost............. PM me for where to send your cash................. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 BSAD. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
abcdefg Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Surely it's just very easy to link to a website which has paid for the listing rights, like so http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/teams/n/newcastle_united/fixtures/default.stm There you go, information and nobody needed to get banned. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Wahey someone with a brain!! (finally) who's more interested in coming up with a simple solution rather than using it as an opportunity to sick a fight. Uv if you've noticed posts with fixture lists in them point then out and we'll remove them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Please just read the opening post, I'm not really sure that we can make it clearer than that. It can be made much clearer, I don't see the problem here. Nobody's asking you to explain Data Co's rules and people aren't getting on your backs or having at go at any of you (people have been having a go at Data Co if anyone at all). All that's being asked is for clarification on your own judgements of this rule. I can understand you might not want to sit there and write a massive post that described 100% what you consider to be against the rules, that's why some people are posting scenario's that only require a yes or no answer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Wahey someone with a brain!! (finally) who's more interested in coming up with a simple solution rather than using it as an opportunity to sick a fight. Sorry mate but you're paranoid if you think people here have been trying to start an argument with the mods. Quite a few people have posted genuine questions, some have been answered, while others have been met with flippant posts by people who seem to take questions as some form of attack. I honestly don't understand what you're problem is. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Please just read the opening post, I'm not really sure that we can make it clearer than that. It can be made much clearer, I don't see the problem here. Nobody's asking you to explain Data Co's rules and people aren't getting on your backs or having at go at any of you (people have been having a go at Data Co if anyone at all). All that's being asked is for clarification on your own judgements of this rule. I can understand you might not want to sit there and write a massive post that described 100% what you consider to be against the rules, that's why some people are posting scenario's that only require a yes or no answer. Wahey someone with a brain!! (finally) who's more interested in coming up with a simple solution rather than using it as an opportunity to sick a fight. Sorry mate but you're paranoid if you think people here have been trying to start an argument with the mods. Quite a few people have posted genuine questions, some have been answered, while others have been met with flippant posts by people who seem to take questions as some form of attack. I honestly don't understand what you're problem is. Basically, naming four or more upcoming fixtures in a way that someone else will understand (ie no nicknames) is against the rules. Does that clear things up? Sorry if the admin come across all arsey, but the two forums that this site replaced in 2004 were shut down without warning by the server because DataCo sent a threatening letter to the server without anyone talking to the respective sites first. Since then, we end up having to clarify the rules several times a year, but in the end of the day, they are just doing what they do to keep the site running for you, the user, yet they do get grief from some. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 If someone wants to stump up the cash for the licence (or indeed a legal challenge), we're all ears. I won't hold my breath. So it would cost us £123 to get the fixtures posted onto this forum ? Spread the cost and thats nowt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Wahey someone with a brain!! (finally) who's more interested in coming up with a simple solution rather than using it as an opportunity to sick a fight. Sorry mate but you're paranoid if you think people here have been trying to start an argument with the mods. Quite a few people have posted genuine questions, some have been answered, while others have been met with flippant posts by people who seem to take questions as some form of attack. I honestly don't understand what you're problem is. Indi's name is in red now that is the core of the problem he can only see in red. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 James So posting four or more team names (even in a random order without home or away listed or dates) is against the rules, ok now I know, thanks for the info. I've got no problem with anything the mods decide, I only ask that if I ask a straight question I get an asnwer, even if its just yes or no. After all now that its been made totally clear nobody should ever have to ask the mods to clarify this rule again. If they do, just send them to this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest K9 Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 dunno why people have a problem with this. all you need to do is look on bbc or sky sports to see who we play, or just save one of them as ur homepage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr Logic Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Sorry if the admin come across all arsey, but the two forums that this site replaced in 2004 were shut down without warning by the server because DataCo sent a threatening letter to the server without anyone talking to the respective sites first. Since then, we end up having to clarify the rules several times a year, but in the end of the day, they are just doing what they do to keep the site running for you, the user, yet they do get grief from some. I can't quite grasp which is the more surreal. The fact that a 'calander of events' which is of interest to a large percentage of the general population, namely the fixture list, has had a copyright slammed on it, OR, the fact that someone reported a previous incarnation of this site for breach of said copyright. Even sadder, perhaps, someone was employed to trawl message boards/forums up and down the country looking for infringements. Can't say I blame the admin or the server owners for their behaviour. I just know I would be going out of my way to find a comparably priced server provider (overseas) who couldn't give a shit about such copyrights. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Teasy, if you had to go through this exact same thing 3 or 4 times a season, having to explain to people what constitutes a fixture and what constitutes a list (how do people get through life not knowing these things!?!), usually with the same people who simply won't take it that the ONLY reason this rule exists is because without it the site could be shut down permanently, at any time, without warning, despite the fact this is exactly what happened to us before, then you get a bit arsey about it too. Seriously though, is it really that hard to understand what a fixture list is and to accept that when we say no workarounds, we mean no workarounds, this includes randomising the order, using stupid names, translating them to Japanese, and anything else that anyone can think of as a way to work around the rule. As a rule of thumb, if it's a fixture and it's in any sort of a list with other fixtures (ie not your shopping list, your Christmas card list, your hit list, or another such non fixture-related list) then it's a fixture list and is therefore not allowed on the forum. If you say I think we'll beat ManU, Liverpool and Chelsea, but get our arses kicked by the mackems then you might be mad, but you're not going to get banned. Sorry if it sounds like I'm taking the piss, it's only because I am. It's really very simple: Please do not post fixture lists on the forum. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Sorry if the admin come across all arsey, but the two forums that this site replaced in 2004 were shut down without warning by the server because DataCo sent a threatening letter to the server without anyone talking to the respective sites first. Since then, we end up having to clarify the rules several times a year, but in the end of the day, they are just doing what they do to keep the site running for you, the user, yet they do get grief from some. I can't quite grasp which is the more surreal. The fact that a 'calander of events' which is of interest to a large percentage of the general population, namely the fixture list, has had a copyright slammed on it, OR, the fact that someone reported a previous incarnation of this site for breach of said copyright. Even sadder, perhaps, someone was employed to trawl message boards/forums up and down the country looking for infringements. Can't say I blame the admin or the server owners for their behaviour. I just know I would be going out of my way to find a comparably priced server provider (overseas) who couldn't give a shit about such copyrights. Nobody reported us, they actively go out looking for this kind of thing with the sole purpose of fucking over anyone they find doing it. Our server is based overseas, it makes bugger all difference to this kind of thing. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Yeah but Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Wahey someone with a brain!! (finally) who's more interested in coming up with a simple solution rather than using it as an opportunity to sick a fight. Sorry mate but you're paranoid if you think people here have been trying to start an argument with the mods. Quite a few people have posted genuine questions, some have been answered, while others have been met with flippant posts by people who seem to take questions as some form of attack. I honestly don't understand what you're problem is. Indi's name is in red now that is the core of the problem he can only see in red. Da Comrade Parkovski. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 Just accept donations like the majority of football forums do and use the money to buy the fixture list next season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indi Posted February 12, 2008 Share Posted February 12, 2008 For those that couldn't be arsed to look at that link earlier in the thread, here's what it says on that site: On Thursday 14th June the fixtures for the 2007/08 football season were published. However most fan run websites will not be displaying them.... Football DataCo Ltd is a British company that grants licenses to third parties allowing them to reproduce certain intellectual property such as fixture lists and statistics. Football DataCo is wholly owned by FA Premier League and The Football League. Fans have 3 options..... 1) Become the clubs nominated fanzine and get a licence for the fixtures for £1 + VAT and a delivery charge to your site £104 + VAT, delivery via email! A total of £123 This is .com and therefore not available to us. 2) Get authorisation from the club to use their fixtures in isolation. This would be £266+VAT plus delivery charge A total of £435 3) Without authorisation from the club you must buy fixtures for all clubs - this is £4244+VAT for the licence and £5200+VAT for delivery A total of nearly £12,000 The fees are charged to all 3rd parties including independently owned football fan sites and fanzines. Numerous fan sites have been closed as a result of legal action initiated by Football DataCo Ltd. Source: http://www.freethefixtures.com/index.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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