Guest gggg Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Are you saying Man Utd & Arsenal aren't bigger clubs than us? Also - 'bigger clubs' ?? I have never thought of Arsenal as a permanently bigger club than us (to be referred to in such an 'automatic way' as you do). Most definitely, in the last 8 seasons or so - "a more successful team" (not the same thing) Well that's where you're going wrong tbh, they are the 3rd most succesfull club in England and have won the league 6 times and the FA cup 7 times since we last one a trophy. We spent plenty of time in the second division before Keegan but they havent been relegated for about 90 years. In terms of honours AND fanbase they are on their own in 3rd with Liverpool and Man U out in front and you cant just discount success from the size of a club because it's a massive part. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Optimistic Nut Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Because if Martins does leave, it'll be to a bigger club!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 West Ham finished 15th we finished 13th ... I think you need to be a bit more realistic if you think we can compete with Man U and Arsenal. That particular bit of "pre-Ashley" history, is about as relevant (to us NOW) as where we finished in the league in 1977 or 1927!! So the league position last season doesn't count because our chairman has a bit of money? In which case West Ham are one of the biggest clubs in England now too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Are you saying Man Utd & Arsenal aren't bigger clubs than us? Also - 'bigger clubs' ?? I have never thought of Arsenal as a permanently bigger club than us (to be referred to in such an 'automatic way' as you do). Most definitely, in the last 8 seasons or so - "a more successful team" (not the same thing) Well that's where you're going wrong tbh, they are the 3rd most succesfull club in England and have won the league 6 times and the FA cup 7 times since we last one a trophy. We spent plenty of time in the second division before Keegan but they havent been relegated for about 90 years. In terms of honours AND fanbase they are on their own in 3rd with Liverpool and Man U out in front and you cant just discount success from the size of a club because it's a massive part. In terms of Arsenal, I can see the pendulum swinging our way very soon. I have not checked the stats myself, but did not realise they had won 6 league titles and 7 FA Cups, since 1969! They are a big club, but not unassailable (spelling??!) in that respect, in the way that Manchester United are. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 West Ham finished 15th we finished 13th ... I think you need to be a bit more realistic if you think we can compete with Man U and Arsenal. That particular bit of "pre-Ashley" history, is about as relevant (to us NOW) as where we finished in the league in 1977 or 1927!! So the league position last season doesn't count because our chairman has a bit of money? In which case West Ham are one of the biggest clubs in England now too. It is a very different thing to add a rich English (successful) businessmans money (where needed) to an already major (and big spending) large club like ours, than it is to have some unknown person buying into a traditionally 2nd/3rd tier club like West Ham!!! It is the combination of factors that make the (large) difference. I am sure you know that really! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 I agree with ggggggg. Most people associate being a big club with winning things and, I'd add, playing in the CL year in year out. Hence the 'big 4'. We're competing to be best of the rest atm, not very well in the last couple of seasons, but hopefully with our new dawn we can now mount an assault on the top 4 in the coming seasons. However until we start to win major trophies and compete in the CL on a regular basis, any claim to be a big club - in the sense that Man Utd or Arsenal or Liverpool are big clubs - isn't taken seriously in the wider world. Our most recent successes are the Intertoto and Anglo-Italian cups. In terms of mid tier clubs, Everton, Spurs and Villa have all enjoyed major success in relatively recent times. Whereas we haven't won a major domestic trophy since the 50's. The only thing that's "big" about us these days apart from transfer fees and wages, and the occasional stellar signing, is the stadium and fan base, and even then I'd wonder whether our overseas fan base is any better than clubs like Everton. That's not an inferiority complex, it's just the way it is. imo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Kitman says - "Whereas we haven't won a major domestic trophy since the 50's". Why do you refer to that like that ('domestic' trophy) - though undeniably correct. Most of us who enjoyed our Fairs Cup win, enjoyed it more than we would have enjoyed the League Cup or FA Cup, at the time. It was after all, our first season ever, in Europe. A great win, and only ("only"!!!!!!) 38 years ago . . . . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 In terms of Arsenal, I can see the pendulum swinging our way very soon. I have not checked the stats myself, but did not realise they had won 6 league titles and 7 FA Cups, since 1969! They are a big club, but not unassailable (spelling??!) in that respect, in the way that Manchester United are. I agree that these clubs are fawned over way too much as if they're untouchable. We were up there with them once, just 4 years ago. And perhaps regarding Arsenal's current situation and our takeover, there's a chance to gain major ground on them in the foreseeable future. But try convincing any foreign player of that and you'd have trouble. Arsenal are far more famous internationally, compete in the Champions League and even have a bigger stadium than us now, on top of just finishing ten league places above us. They can talk to him about medals, cup finals, Champions League games in the Nou Camp, all we can sell him is a vision. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Kitman says - "Whereas we haven't won a major domestic trophy since the 50's". Why do you refer to that like that ('domestic' trophy) - though undeniably correct. Most of us who enjoyed our Fairs Cup win, enjoyed it more than we would have enjoyed the League Cup or FA Cup, at the time. It was after all, our first season ever, in Europe. A great win, and only ("only"!!!!!!) 38 years ago . . . . Not putting it down MP, it's just that if you have the debate with rival fans (as I often have had), the Intercity Fairs (or UEFA as it now is) doesn't carry as much weight as say the FA cup. Maybe because no-one's really heard of the ICF cup. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Kitman says - "Whereas we haven't won a major domestic trophy since the 50's". Why do you refer to that like that ('domestic' trophy) - though undeniably correct. Most of us who enjoyed our Fairs Cup win, enjoyed it more than we would have enjoyed the League Cup or FA Cup, at the time. It was after all, our first season ever, in Europe. A great win, and only ("only"!!!!!!) 38 years ago . . . . Not putting it down MP, it's just that if you have the debate with rival fans (as I often have had), the Intercity Fairs (or UEFA as it now is) doesn't carry as much weight as say the FA cup. Maybe because no-one's really heard of the ICF cup. The European Champions League used to be called the European Cup. The UEFA Cup used to be called the European Fairs Cup (previously the Inter Cities Fairs Cup) The European Cup Winners Cup - doesnt even exist now. So, the names may change, but we have played in the Fairs Cup/UEFA Cup, a LOT of times (as well as the Champions League and Cup Winners Cup occasionally) - so I cannot believe that ANY real Newcastle United supporter of any age (or our equivalents from other clubs) does not know all about them!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest gggg Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 The thing is the Fairs Cup isn't even recognised by UEFA anymore while the European Cup IS recognised as being the precursor to the Champions League. The Fairs Cup was an invitation only competition, the year we "qualified" for it and then won it we finished 10th in the league.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
toontownman Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Will be interesting to see what tmrw brings. More than likely a straight denial they are even in Barcelona! Ive said before Gudjohnsen would be an ideal signing, would be the missing link in midfield, his creativeness is fantastic. He would be great in midfield or up top. As a straight replacement for Owen or Martins its not so ideal, we need pace upfront. With the uncertainty surrounding our pacey ponces and viduka likely to miss the start of the season I think Ideally we will bring someone else in upfront anyways that can fit in elsewhere in the team. Someone like Giuly, Babel, Diouf or Gudjohnsen could command a place in our team in several positions and cover the absences of Viduka/Duff. Theres plenty of players we could be after at Barca though as mentioned: Gudjohnsen, Saviola, Giuly, Thiago Motta.. whilst unlikely now Edmilson. Maybe more? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 In terms of Arsenal, I can see the pendulum swinging our way very soon. I have not checked the stats myself, but did not realise they had won 6 league titles and 7 FA Cups, since 1969! They are a big club, but not unassailable (spelling??!) in that respect, in the way that Manchester United are. I agree that these clubs are fawned over way too much as if they're untouchable. We were up there with them once, just 4 years ago. And perhaps regarding Arsenal's current situation and our takeover, there's a chance to gain major ground on them in the foreseeable future. But try convincing any foreign player of that and you'd have trouble. Arsenal are far more famous internationally, compete in the Champions League and even have a bigger stadium than us now, on top of just finishing ten league places above us. They can talk to him about medals, cup finals, Champions League games in the Nou Camp, all we can sell him is a vision. This is all true - we are POTENTIALLY a bigger club than Arsenal, even Liverpool perhaps, but ONLY potentially ; we will never be able to compete with these clubs for the majority of really top players UNTIL we start winning things, and challenging the Top 4 on a regular basis. We do have a chance with Gudjohnsen because he has played for Sam before and knows that NUFC COULD be a major force in the Premiership because of our fan base & stadium, and I for one have always wanted us to sign him since he was at Bolton - he's class, and would be a great asset just behind the front 2.... would also rather have a front 2 of Viduka & Owen than Viduka & Martins, so wouldn't be unhappy if Martins went, esp if we got 13m for him(!?). Saviola might be OK feeding off Viduka if Owen is also going, though I would prefer Huntelaar even though he's very much a long shot for us as the current Top4 have a much better chance of getting him(see first paragraph....!!). As for Edmilson, a decent defensive midfielder, but if true about his Op, he would be no use to us for 6 months - maybe they're trying to line him up for Jan.?? Having said all that, it could be just speculation from the Golden Pen of one Anal Oliver..... time will tell ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitman Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Kitman says - "Whereas we haven't won a major domestic trophy since the 50's". Why do you refer to that like that ('domestic' trophy) - though undeniably correct. Most of us who enjoyed our Fairs Cup win, enjoyed it more than we would have enjoyed the League Cup or FA Cup, at the time. It was after all, our first season ever, in Europe. A great win, and only ("only"!!!!!!) 38 years ago . . . . Not putting it down MP, it's just that if you have the debate with rival fans (as I often have had), the Intercity Fairs (or UEFA as it now is) doesn't carry as much weight as say the FA cup. Maybe because no-one's really heard of the ICF cup. The European Champions League used to be called the European Cup. The UEFA Cup used to be called the European Fairs Cup (previously the Inter Cities Fairs Cup) The European Cup Winners Cup - doesnt even exist now. So, the names may change, but we have played in the Fairs Cup/UEFA Cup, a LOT of times (as well as the Champions League and Cup Winners Cup occasionally) - so I cannot believe that ANY real Newcastle United supporter of any age (or our equivalents from other clubs) does not know all about them!! Of course I know about them, I'm talking about non-Newcastle fans and the media. And 1969 is a long time ago in anyone's book. And are we as big as Sevilla anyway? But that's besides the point - playing in UEFA, even winning the UEFA cup and having a lot of fans doesn't put us on a par with the "big 4". That was my point. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colos Short and Curlies Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 They could be going after an Espanyol player for all we know! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzza Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Saviola has signed for Madrid. Motta has been told to look for a new club (right back/centre midfield). Etoo has categorically denied that he claimed "playing for Newcastle United would be a dream come true for me". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordie jamie Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 are SSN still running the story or was it another one of their false alarms? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
madras Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 are SSN still running the story or was it another one of their false alarms? it's still running in the blue bar at the bottom of the screen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Wally_McFool Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 The thing is the Fairs Cup isn't even recognised by UEFA anymore while the European Cup IS recognised as being the precursor to the Champions League. The Fairs Cup was an invitation only competition, the year we "qualified" for it and then won it we finished 10th in the league.... It is recognised on the UEFA board if you read the history of the UEFA CUp , the thing is that they no longer show the list of ICFC winners as the competition was not ran by them at the time. They took control of the competion in 1971. This is fair enough as the FA dont show Carling Cup results on their site do they! This "it was an invitation" only competition is a load of bollocks as well. The ICFC was invitation in its first two years of existence but there again, the first World Cup was "invitation" only as were the first few FA Cups. Are you sure you are not a smoggie??? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Just been announced on .cock PSG faxed Rozehnal's paperwork to Barcelona by mistake, so we have gone to pick it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Newcastle Fan Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Just been announced on .cock PSG faxed Rozehnal's paperwork to Barcelona by mistake, so we have gone to pick it up. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest johnson293 Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 Just been announced on .cock PSG faxed Rozehnal's paperwork to Barcelona by mistake, so we have gone to pick it up. A year ago, I would have believed that without a second thought! Just the kind of thing the previous numpty would have done, en-route to scout Dirk Kuyt again no doubt. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
manorpark Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 The thing is the Fairs Cup isn't even recognised by UEFA anymore while the European Cup IS recognised as being the precursor to the Champions League. The Fairs Cup was an invitation only competition, the year we "qualified" for it and then won it we finished 10th in the league.... It is recognised on the UEFA board if you read the history of the UEFA CUp , the thing is that they no longer show the list of ICFC winners as the competition was not ran by them at the time. They took control of the competion in 1971. This is fair enough as the FA dont show Carling Cup results on their site do they! This "it was an invitation" only competition is a load of bollocks as well. The ICFC was invitation in its first two years of existence but there again, the first World Cup was "invitation" only as were the first few FA Cups. Are you sure you are not a smoggie??? Yes Wally - that type of 'not even a recognised tournament' / 'it was an invitation-only tournament when we went into it' type of comment, is indeed VERY reminiscent (almost word-for-word identical) to the idiotic comments a number of Smoggie supporters have often written (and even after correction continue to write) about our Fairs Cup win. Don't think gggg is one though! Very strange words, nonetheless!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 It is Edmilson. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
beardsleymagic Posted June 29, 2007 Share Posted June 29, 2007 If (and I repeat) IF this is true it surely must mean it's a big (well biggish) signing. I can't see Sam and the Fatman going over there to talk to a relatively small signing. I don't think they done that with Barton or anyone did they? Probably just trying to convince myself really. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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