José Enrique

[Mick]

Best leftback in the premier league by far if Man Utd wanted to sign him think hes earned the right for a move.

 

Rubbish, we're not a prison.

 

The way some so called fans go on you'd think it was.Some people need to realise Ashleys turning us into a mid table feeder club.

 

Having thought about what you've just posted, that is a brilliant put-down which I might use in future.  He's earned the right to escape.

[ponsaelius]

I'm with Dave like, the acceptance for mediocrity is fucking shit. I don't care where my club stands, whether it be in the Championship or the bottom of half of the Prem. As a fan the least we can expect/hope for is ambition of some kind. The hope that we can push on and progress at a steady rate. I don't expect accelerated fake success like Man City, just natural steady progress. Now, to progress like this we need to keep our best players at all costs.

 

I hate this acceptance that there is the elite clubs and that it's impossible to break into them or compete. The chances of us breaking into the top echelons these days are slim, but that doesn't mean as fan we should simply accept that there is a ceiling that cannot be broken. Hearing fans say they don't mind players moving on to the likes of Man U because they've earned a move to a 'big club' it is just revolting as far as I'm concerned. Fans just simply accept the monopolisation of good players as the norm because the media pushes this idea. The idea that good players haven't completed a career until they've played for Man U, Liverpool or Real Madrid.

 

As rare as it is, it is possible for smaller clubs to grow into bigger ones. Villarreal went from the lower divisions in Spain to being consistent Champions League qualifiers and being within touching distance of a CL final one year. Their catchment area and marketing qualities are tiny, yet they were able to break the mould in Spain without spending stupid. If a village team can reach those heights then the potential for a club like Newcastle is massive. We always get slated for considering ourselves a big club but I'd far rather that kind of delusion and expectancy than the acceptance of our place as an also-ran.

 

I remember speaking to a Fulham fan a few years ago who said that Newcastle were the biggest underachievers in any sporting code, and in a way he is right. I'm not just going to accept us as becoming a selling club that will forever win nothing. If fans do that then they lose any hope of ambition and there's no point in supporting a football team at all.

[AyeDubbleYoo]

If we can go from nearly winning the league to relegation, then we can go the opposite direction as well.

 

Things can change, look at Spurs. We consistently finished above them until a few years ago, now they're miles ahead. There's no reason at all to accept that our current position is permanent, the trick is balancing the expectation of progress with the reality of our finances.

[Dave]

I'm with Dave like, the acceptance for mediocrity is fucking shit. I don't care where my club stands, whether it be in the Championship or the bottom of half of the Prem. As a fan the least we can expect/hope for is ambition of some kind. The hope that we can push on and progress at a steady rate. I don't expect accelerated fake success like Man City, just natural steady progress. Now, to progress like this we need to keep our best players at all costs.

 

I hate this acceptance that there is the elite clubs and that it's impossible to break into them or compete. The chances of us breaking into the top echelons these days are slim, but that doesn't mean as fan we should simply accept that there is a ceiling that cannot be broken. Hearing fans say they don't mind players moving on to the likes of Man U because they've earned a move to a 'big club' it is just revolting as far as I'm concerned. Fans just simply accept the monopolisation of good players as the norm because the media pushes this idea. The idea that good players haven't completed a career until they've played for Man U, Liverpool or Real Madrid.

 

As rare as it is, it is possible for smaller clubs to grow into bigger ones. Villarreal went from the lower divisions in Spain to being consistent Champions League qualifiers and being within touching distance of a CL final one year. Their catchment area and marketing qualities are tiny, yet they were able to break the mould in Spain without spending stupid. If a village team can reach those heights then the potential for a club like Newcastle is massive. We always get slated for considering ourselves a big club but I'd far rather that kind of delusion and expectancy than the acceptance of our place as an also-ran.

 

I remember speaking to a Fulham fan a few years ago who said that Newcastle were the biggest underachievers in any sporting code, and in a way he is right. I'm not just going to accept us as becoming a selling club that will forever win nothing. If fans do that then they lose any hope of ambition and there's no point in supporting a football team at all.

 

Top post.

[Stu]

I'm with Dave like, the acceptance for mediocrity is fucking shit. I don't care where my club stands, whether it be in the Championship or the bottom of half of the Prem. As a fan the least we can expect/hope for is ambition of some kind. The hope that we can push on and progress at a steady rate. I don't expect accelerated fake success like Man City, just natural steady progress. Now, to progress like this we need to keep our best players at all costs.

 

I hate this acceptance that there is the elite clubs and that it's impossible to break into them or compete. The chances of us breaking into the top echelons these days are slim, but that doesn't mean as fan we should simply accept that there is a ceiling that cannot be broken. Hearing fans say they don't mind players moving on to the likes of Man U because they've earned a move to a 'big club' it is just revolting as far as I'm concerned. Fans just simply accept the monopolisation of good players as the norm because the media pushes this idea. The idea that good players haven't completed a career until they've played for Man U, Liverpool or Real Madrid.

 

As rare as it is, it is possible for smaller clubs to grow into bigger ones. Villarreal went from the lower divisions in Spain to being consistent Champions League qualifiers and being within touching distance of a CL final one year. Their catchment area and marketing qualities are tiny, yet they were able to break the mould in Spain without spending stupid. If a village team can reach those heights then the potential for a club like Newcastle is massive. We always get slated for considering ourselves a big club but I'd far rather that kind of delusion and expectancy than the acceptance of our place as an also-ran.

 

I remember speaking to a Fulham fan a few years ago who said that Newcastle were the biggest underachievers in any sporting code, and in a way he is right. I'm not just going to accept us as becoming a selling club that will forever win nothing. If fans do that then they lose any hope of ambition and there's no point in supporting a football team at all.

 

Top post.

 

Aren't Villareal in financial trouble?

 

I suppose it also depends on how your prioritise your desire to see the club win trophies vs your enjoyment at being entertained.

[Mick]

I'm with Dave like, the acceptance for mediocrity is f***ing s***. I don't care where my club stands, whether it be in the Championship or the bottom of half of the Prem. As a fan the least we can expect/hope for is ambition of some kind. The hope that we can push on and progress at a steady rate. I don't expect accelerated fake success like Man City, just natural steady progress. Now, to progress like this we need to keep our best players at all costs.

 

I hate this acceptance that there is the elite clubs and that it's impossible to break into them or compete. The chances of us breaking into the top echelons these days are slim, but that doesn't mean as fan we should simply accept that there is a ceiling that cannot be broken. Hearing fans say they don't mind players moving on to the likes of Man U because they've earned a move to a 'big club' it is just revolting as far as I'm concerned. Fans just simply accept the monopolisation of good players as the norm because the media pushes this idea. The idea that good players haven't completed a career until they've played for Man U, Liverpool or Real Madrid.

 

As rare as it is, it is possible for smaller clubs to grow into bigger ones. Villarreal went from the lower divisions in Spain to being consistent Champions League qualifiers and being within touching distance of a CL final one year. Their catchment area and marketing qualities are tiny, yet they were able to break the mould in Spain without spending stupid. If a village team can reach those heights then the potential for a club like Newcastle is massive. We always get slated for considering ourselves a big club but I'd far rather that kind of delusion and expectancy than the acceptance of our place as an also-ran.

 

I remember speaking to a Fulham fan a few years ago who said that Newcastle were the biggest underachievers in any sporting code, and in a way he is right. I'm not just going to accept us as becoming a selling club that will forever win nothing. If fans do that then they lose any hope of ambition and there's no point in supporting a football team at all.

 

Good post, not that the Ostriches will see it that way.

[ponsaelius]

Aren't Villareal in financial trouble?

 

Villarreal* but yes I think they had some problems that they're expecting to come out of when they qualify for the Champions League again this season. Competing at the highest level with very limited resources is difficult and the fact they've managed to do it at all is an example to a lot of other clubs with far more potential.

 

I suppose it also depends on how your prioritise your desire to see the club win trophies vs your enjoyment at being entertained.

 

What do you mean by this post. Are you suggesting that to be entertained you must experience both the highs and the lows?

[madras]

I'm with Dave like, the acceptance for mediocrity is f***ing s***. I don't care where my club stands, whether it be in the Championship or the bottom of half of the Prem. As a fan the least we can expect/hope for is ambition of some kind. The hope that we can push on and progress at a steady rate. I don't expect accelerated fake success like Man City, just natural steady progress. Now, to progress like this we need to keep our best players at all costs.

 

I hate this acceptance that there is the elite clubs and that it's impossible to break into them or compete. The chances of us breaking into the top echelons these days are slim, but that doesn't mean as fan we should simply accept that there is a ceiling that cannot be broken. Hearing fans say they don't mind players moving on to the likes of Man U because they've earned a move to a 'big club' it is just revolting as far as I'm concerned. Fans just simply accept the monopolisation of good players as the norm because the media pushes this idea. The idea that good players haven't completed a career until they've played for Man U, Liverpool or Real Madrid.

 

As rare as it is, it is possible for smaller clubs to grow into bigger ones. Villarreal went from the lower divisions in Spain to being consistent Champions League qualifiers and being within touching distance of a CL final one year. Their catchment area and marketing qualities are tiny, yet they were able to break the mould in Spain without spending stupid. If a village team can reach those heights then the potential for a club like Newcastle is massive. We always get slated for considering ourselves a big club but I'd far rather that kind of delusion and expectancy than the acceptance of our place as an also-ran.

 

I remember speaking to a Fulham fan a few years ago who said that Newcastle were the biggest underachievers in any sporting code, and in a way he is right. I'm not just going to accept us as becoming a selling club that will forever win nothing. If fans do that then they lose any hope of ambition and there's no point in supporting a football team at all.

 

Top post.

i don't think anyone is really saying that but all clubs will sell if ofered a good enough price, also there is a pecking order. not so long ago we were above spurs, because we made crap buys that cost us not only in fees but in wages that cost us the chance to invest they overtook us. whilst we bought luque,boumsong, smith,owen etc, they made profits on berbatov,keane,carrick.

 

if we improve we'll move up the pecking order.

 

 

edit...doh you fucking muppet man madras. read the full fucking post instead of just the first couple of sentences before going off on one you tool.

 

 

ok man i get it. :-[

[Stu]

Aren't Villareal in financial trouble?

 

Villarreal* but yes I think they had some problems that they're expecting to come out of when they qualify for the Champions League again this season. Competing at the highest level with very limited resources is difficult and the fact they've managed to do it at all is an example to a lot of other clubs with far more potential.

 

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00737/sport-graphics-2003_737162a.jpg

 

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/FS1-150x150.jpg

[Mick]

http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00737/sport-graphics-2003_737162a.jpg

 

http://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/FS1-150x150.jpg

 

Has anybody suggested that we spend what we haven't got?

[ponsaelius]

Aren't Villareal in financial trouble?

 

Villarreal* but yes I think they had some problems that they're expecting to come out of when they qualify for the Champions League again this season. Competing at the highest level with very limited resources is difficult and the fact they've managed to do it at all is an example to a lot of other clubs with far more potential.

 

 

What is your point? The scenarios are completely different.

[Anderson]

This elite group of clubs in England will soon be broken up anyway IMO. City and Chelsea obviously have unlimited money atm but these new UEFA rules could soon sort that out (obviously if they work which I realise is a huge if); Man Utd and Arsenal will lose their talismanic managers, Arsenal will struggle to get in a manager who can work so well with their budget and replacing Fergie is almost an impossible task; finally Liverpool have already fallen some way off the pace and Spurs' CL adventures are on course to last a whole season. That means in the next 5-10 years there will be a chance for big clubs like us to have a crack at stepping up and maybe not challenging for the title but definitely having a decent go at the top 6.

[Stu]

I suppose it also depends on how your prioritise your desire to see the club win trophies vs your enjoyment at being entertained.

 

What do you mean by this post. Are you suggesting that to be entertained you must experience both the highs and the lows?

 

Not in the sense of relegation/promotion and becoming a yo-yo club.

 

Entertainment - seeing a good game of football, ideally with Newcastle coming out on top. Whilst our sojourn in the Championship was enjoyable because we won a lot of games and scored a lot of goals, too many of the matches were lacking in entertainment value because the opposition were so dire.

 

We spent 4-5 seasons being an "established Premierleague club" who struggled under the burden of shite, overpaid players who couldn't perform. That wasn't fun. Nor was it entertaining. At least the relegation season added some drama to the turgid mix, in spite of the heartache at the end.

 

Quite happy to see the club come back up slowly and build for the long term success. That's not going to be any time soon, unlikely that any of the players currently in our first team would be part of an ongoing successful Newcastle United.

 

Carroll was a very good prospect, but could you honestly say that we were likely to maximise his potential by surrounding him with enough high-quality players under our current budget?

[Stu]

 

Has anybody suggested that we spend what we haven't got?

 

Presumably you missed the conversation about Villarreal?

[Village Idiot]

Villarreal are truly a fairy tale. It's not that many years ago that I used to watch them play against Barça B. They have overspent, but are trying to keep it sensible, cutting the budget and still remaining very competitive. They will land on their feet.

 

Still they benefited from the fact that although Barça/Madrid dominate the top spots, La Liga is actually a very open championship and we don't have an established Top 4. The grip of the likes of Arsenal/Chelsea/ManU and now City in your CL spots is way bigger.

[Mick]

Presumably you missed the conversation about Villarreal?

 

He was using them as an example to what a club can do, he wasn't using them as a blue-print.

[Stu]

Aren't Villareal in financial trouble?

 

Villarreal* but yes I think they had some problems that they're expecting to come out of when they qualify for the Champions League again this season. Competing at the highest level with very limited resources is difficult and the fact they've managed to do it at all is an example to a lot of other clubs with far more potential.

 

 

What is your point? The scenarios are completely different.

 

 

OK, so we "do a Villarreal" (who by, VI's admission "are truly a fairy tale"). We keep the likes of Carroll, Tiote and Enrique here by promising them that we'll match their ambition with some sensible spending and increasing the wage structure to attract champions league calibre players. Heaven knows, we actually start challenging for the Champs League and qualifying a couple of season - might even go on a run. Now that we're earning at that level, we start spending at that level.

 

What happens when we don't qualify one season? Or re-create the Partisan downfall? Do we continue to spend during that season in the hope that we re-qualify (facing far fiercer financial obstacles if we fail) or do we cut our cloth accordingly and sell off some of our star players, breaking up the squad in the process? (this may have happened to Valencia)

[Village Idiot]

Still, you have to take into account that Villarreal are fantastically tiny. I don't believe their gross spend has been all that, they have just run up the debt because they had the turnover of a lemonade stand.

[Mick]

OK, so we "do a Villarreal" (who by, VI's admission "are truly a fairy tale"). We keep the likes of Carroll, Tiote and Enrique here by promising them that we'll match their ambition with some sensible spending and increasing the wage structure to attract champions league calibre players. Heaven knows, we actually start challenging for the Champs League and qualifying a couple of season - might even go on a run. Now that we're earning at that level, we start spending at that level.

 

What happens when we don't qualify one season? Or re-create the Partisan downfall? Do we continue to spend during that season in the hope that we re-qualify (facing far fiercer financial obstacles if we fail) or do we cut our cloth accordingly and sell off some of our star players, breaking up the squad in the process? (this may have happened to Valencia)

 

You've talked me out of it, we shouldn't even try to become a better club.

[Stu]

OK, so we "do a Villarreal" (who by, VI's admission "are truly a fairy tale"). We keep the likes of Carroll, Tiote and Enrique here by promising them that we'll match their ambition with some sensible spending and increasing the wage structure to attract champions league calibre players. Heaven knows, we actually start challenging for the Champs League and qualifying a couple of season - might even go on a run. Now that we're earning at that level, we start spending at that level.

 

What happens when we don't qualify one season? Or re-create the Partisan downfall? Do we continue to spend during that season in the hope that we re-qualify (facing far fiercer financial obstacles if we fail) or do we cut our cloth accordingly and sell off some of our star players, breaking up the squad in the process? (this may have happened to Valencia)

 

You've talked me out of it, we shouldn't even try to become a better club.

 

Not at all, just advocating a longer-term strategy rather than a 2-3 season approach

[relámpago blanco]

Aren't Villareal in financial trouble?

 

Villarreal* but yes I think they had some problems that they're expecting to come out of when they qualify for the Champions League again this season. Competing at the highest level with very limited resources is difficult and the fact they've managed to do it at all is an example to a lot of other clubs with far more potential.

 

 

What is your point? The scenarios are completely different.

 

 

OK, so we "do a Villarreal" (who by, VI's admission "are truly a fairy tale"). We keep the likes of Carroll, Tiote and Enrique here by promising them that we'll match their ambition with some sensible spending and increasing the wage structure to attract champions league calibre players. Heaven knows, we actually start challenging for the Champs League and qualifying a couple of season - might even go on a run. Now that we're earning at that level, we start spending at that level.

 

What happens when we don't qualify one season? Or re-create the Partisan downfall? Do we continue to spend during that season in the hope that we re-qualify (facing far fiercer financial obstacles if we fail) or do we cut our cloth accordingly and sell off some of our star players, breaking up the squad in the process? (this may have happened to Valencia)

That sounds like Freddy's plan apart from the not qualifying for CL part.

[ponsaelius]

I suppose it also depends on how your prioritise your desire to see the club win trophies vs your enjoyment at being entertained.

 

What do you mean by this post. Are you suggesting that to be entertained you must experience both the highs and the lows?

 

Not in the sense of relegation/promotion and becoming a yo-yo club.

 

Entertainment - seeing a good game of football, ideally with Newcastle coming out on top. Whilst our sojourn in the Championship was enjoyable because we won a lot of games and scored a lot of goals, too many of the matches were lacking in entertainment value because the opposition were so dire.

 

We spent 4-5 seasons being an "established Premierleague club" who struggled under the burden of shite, overpaid players who couldn't perform. That wasn't fun. Nor was it entertaining. At least the relegation season added some drama to the turgid mix, in spite of the heartache at the end.

 

Quite happy to see the club come back up slowly and build for the long term success. That's not going to be any time soon, unlikely that any of the players currently in our first team would be part of an ongoing successful Newcastle United.

 

Carroll was a very good prospect, but could you honestly say that we were likely to maximise his potential by surrounding him with enough high-quality players under our current budget?

 

I agree with you about the "established Premier league" years as you describe them. We were just running a treadmill going the other direction throughout that period. Throwing money at problems without much thought to achieve actual long-term progress. The season last year in the Championship and the first half of this season has been in honesty far more enjoyable as a fan to that period under Souness/Roeder/Allardyce etc.

 

As fun as the last year and a half as been in comparison to what had gone before, I would not enjoy us to settle at this level. Like somebody said Spurs' success over recent years should be set as an example for why we could push on relatively quickly. If you compare Spurs' starting XI and squad this season to that from around '07 the improvement they have made is vast.

 

My main argument in all honesty is not that of our actual potential progress anyway, it was more fans attitudes to simply accept where we are as our natural run on the ladder. The pecking order and monopoly of football is something that really grates on me, so seeing fans accept and even endorse it is particularly sickening.

[Village Idiot]

Aren't Villareal in financial trouble?

 

Villarreal* but yes I think they had some problems that they're expecting to come out of when they qualify for the Champions League again this season. Competing at the highest level with very limited resources is difficult and the fact they've managed to do it at all is an example to a lot of other clubs with far more potential.

 

 

What is your point? The scenarios are completely different.

 

 

OK, so we "do a Villarreal" (who by, VI's admission "are truly a fairy tale"). We keep the likes of Carroll, Tiote and Enrique here by promising them that we'll match their ambition with some sensible spending and increasing the wage structure to attract champions league calibre players. Heaven knows, we actually start challenging for the Champs League and qualifying a couple of season - might even go on a run. Now that we're earning at that level, we start spending at that level.

 

What happens when we don't qualify one season? Or re-create the Partisan downfall? Do we continue to spend during that season in the hope that we re-qualify (facing far fiercer financial obstacles if we fail) or do we cut our cloth accordingly and sell off some of our star players, breaking up the squad in the process? (this may have happened to Valencia)

 

I probably got lost in translation here, when in Spanish you say something is a "fairy tale" it means something like "a dream come true".

 

Anyway, I think Sevilla are a far better example for you lot. Similarly sized club (I'd have NUFC to be bigger). A policy of very shrewd scouting and buying brought them trophies and CL campaigns. They also did sell *a lot* of the players they discovered (Baptista, Ramos, Dani Alves, etc...) but managed to keep being competitive thanks to a fantastic scouting setup and the outrageous money they got off their sales.

[Mick]

Not at all, just advocating a longer-term strategy rather than a 2-3 season approach

 

Sometimes you have to take advantage of a bit of luck.  Currently we have a few players who are far better than a mid table/struggling side and we should build on that while we have it rather than working to a time scale.

[Dr Venkman]

I'm with Dave like, the acceptance for mediocrity is fucking shit. I don't care where my club stands, whether it be in the Championship or the bottom of half of the Prem. As a fan the least we can expect/hope for is ambition of some kind. The hope that we can push on and progress at a steady rate. I don't expect accelerated fake success like Man City, just natural steady progress. Now, to progress like this we need to keep our best players at all costs.

 

I hate this acceptance that there is the elite clubs and that it's impossible to break into them or compete. The chances of us breaking into the top echelons these days are slim, but that doesn't mean as fan we should simply accept that there is a ceiling that cannot be broken. Hearing fans say they don't mind players moving on to the likes of Man U because they've earned a move to a 'big club' it is just revolting as far as I'm concerned. Fans just simply accept the monopolisation of good players as the norm because the media pushes this idea. The idea that good players haven't completed a career until they've played for Man U, Liverpool or Real Madrid.

 

As rare as it is, it is possible for smaller clubs to grow into bigger ones. Villarreal went from the lower divisions in Spain to being consistent Champions League qualifiers and being within touching distance of a CL final one year. Their catchment area and marketing qualities are tiny, yet they were able to break the mould in Spain without spending stupid. If a village team can reach those heights then the potential for a club like Newcastle is massive. We always get slated for considering ourselves a big club but I'd far rather that kind of delusion and expectancy than the acceptance of our place as an also-ran.

 

I remember speaking to a Fulham fan a few years ago who said that Newcastle were the biggest underachievers in any sporting code, and in a way he is right. I'm not just going to accept us as becoming a selling club that will forever win nothing. If fans do that then they lose any hope of ambition and there's no point in supporting a football team at all.

 

mike ashley