The way I see it (4-3-3 at home, with wor players)

[Guest Knightrider]

I'm a huge fan of 4-3-3, however I don't think we have the players for it. On the road it isn't so much about the players but the system so we should get away with it more often than not as we did away to Bolton. At home though it's about the players, or should be. And today we were far too tied up in the system I thought. By playing the players we are playing in that system at home, it's another form of square pegs in round holes in my opinion.

 

We lacked width, numbers in advanced positions and were too deep in central midfield with not one creative spark between either of Butt, Geremi or Smith. We also lacked pace. This was magnified of course by the opposition coming here for a draw and being defensively strong themselves - and most teams will play like that at St. James' Park.

 

Most of the team bar a few players didn't play anywhere near as good as they are capable of which also didn't help matters either. Geremi was awful in possession and too rash in the tackle while Smith did his best to impersonate Scott Parker. Butt was OK but he was bogged down throughout. While N'Zogbia was tactically put out the game and Viduka and Martins bereft of service. Only the defence as a unit and Harper and Milner came out of it with any real credit, especially Harper and Milner who I thought were fantastic.

 

We are obviously missing a few players who will come in and change things but I believe we should stick to 4-4-2 until Big Sam and Mort can bring in the type of players that can play in a 4-3-3 home and away, players we lack and players we won't get much joy from trying to convert.

 

Time for a rethink Sam.

[Guest Toon83]

4-4-2 (diamond) with out and out wingers at home (from players currently available)

 

Given/Harper

Carr 

Taylor 

Rozehnal 

Enrique

Geremi (DM/creative passer)

Milner (right wing)         

Smith (AM/link up man with front two)           

N'Zogbia (left wing)

Oba/Owen 

Viduka/Ameobi

 

4-3-3 away (from players currently available)

 

Given/Harper

Carr   

Taylor   

Rozehnal   

Enrique/N'Zogbia

Smith   

Butt (in front of the back four)   

Geremi

Milner (left side so he can cut inside and shoot) 

Viduka/Ameobi (target man)

Oba/Owen (further forward than Milner as a second striker)

           

 

[KaKa]

I'm a huge fan of 4-3-3, however I don't think we have the players for it. On the road it isn't so much about the players but the system so we should get away with it more often than not as we did away to Bolton. At home though it's about the players, or should be. And today we were far too tied up in the system I thought. By playing the players we are playing in that system at home, it's another form of square pegs in round holes in my opinion.

 

We lacked width, numbers in advanced positions and were too deep in central midfield with not one creative spark between either of Butt, Geremi or Smith. We also lacked pace. This was magnified of course by the opposition coming here for a draw and being defensively strong themselves - and most teams will play like that at St. James' Park.

 

Most of the team bar a few players didn't play anywhere near as good as they are capable of which also didn't help matters either. Geremi was awful in possession and too rash in the tackle while Smith did his best to impersonate Scott Parker. Butt was OK but he was bogged down throughout. While N'Zogbia was tactically put out the game and Viduka and Martins bereft of service. Only the defence as a unit and Harper and Milner came out of it with any real credit, especially Harper and Milner who I thought were fantastic.

 

We are obviously missing a few players who will come in and change things but I believe we should stick to 4-4-2 until Big Sam and Mort can bring in the type of players that can play in a 4-3-3 home and away, players we lack and players we won't get much joy from trying to convert.

 

Time for a rethink Sam.

 

I think the 4-3-3 could definitely work with a bit more practice and direction, and in my opinion it has a lot of potential. Especially when Barton returns. Thought we looked worse in the 4-4-2. Especially as in a 4-4-2 we are essentially playing with 10 men due to Owen's style of play.

 

 

[Shearer9]

I don't even really think it was a 4-3-3 today, and  that was part of the problem.  We had 3 dedicated defenders (Rozenhal and Taylor at CB, Carr at RB), and then N'Zogbia, who's role was essentially "the entire left flank".  I don't know why that happened, he had no support going forward, and clearly felt like he couldn't dribble to the line at the end and cross, all of his crosses were from deep.  But the midfield trio of Butt, Smith, and Geremi did well enough covering for him as far as getting back, even if individually they had some shocking moments.  Geremi was clearly only a holding player, while Smith and bizarrely it was Butt who made a lot of woeful forward runs.  Then there's Viduka up top essentially standing in the middle doing close to nowt, with Milner down the right and Martins all over the place.  Totally unbalanced both across the pitch and up and down it.

 

The promising thing, however, was the fact that we had numbers going back and kept a lot of possession.  The old Newcastle would have played out the boring first half, then let the pace of Young, Agbonlahor, Moore, etc get to them and the pressure would steadily have shifted back onto us, someone would have made a mistake or a rash decision, and we'd have lost 1-0.  Textbook.

 

The thing we need to build on is having possession.  How to better use it, especially in the wide areas, and how to make sure strikers get service.  It seemed like we had a lot of possession, although O'Neill disagrees with me on that one.  Does anyone have a concrete stat on that?

[Guest Toon83]

I don't even really think it was a 4-3-3 today, and  that was part of the problem.  We had 3 dedicated defenders (Rozenhal and Taylor at CB, Carr at RB), and then N'Zogbia, who's role was essentially "the entire left flank".  I don't know why that happened, he had no support going forward, and clearly felt like he couldn't dribble to the line at the end and cross, all of his crosses were from deep.  But the midfield trio of Butt, Smith, and Geremi did well enough covering for him as far as getting back, even if individually they had some shocking moments.  Geremi was clearly only a holding player, while Smith and bizarrely it was Butt who made a lot of woeful forward runs.  Then there's Viduka up top essentially standing in the middle doing close to nowt, with Milner down the right and Martins all over the place.  Totally unbalanced both across the pitch and up and down it.

 

The promising thing, however, was the fact that we had numbers going back and kept a lot of possession.  The old Newcastle would have played out the boring first half, then let the pace of Young, Agbonlahor, Moore, etc get to them and the pressure would steadily have shifted back onto us, someone would have made a mistake or a rash decision, and we'd have lost 1-0.  Textbook.

 

The thing we need to build on is having possession.  How to better use it, especially in the wide areas, and how to make sure strikers get service.  It seemed like we had a lot of possession, although O'Neill disagrees with me on that one.  Does anyone have a concrete stat on that?

 

There was a stat on sky saying that we had 56% possession to there 44% so MO'N is talking shite again

[Jamie]

4-3-3 doesn't work at home.

We need a flat 4-4-2 with 2 PROPER wingers playing

[Guest Chief Bluntasnot]

4-3-3 doesn't work at home.

 

Some people need to realise that it's going to take time for us to improve and we were over confident after the Bolton game. A point is a point , no goals conceded and we missed some decent chances.

 

Give our players time and I'm sure it'll work

[chicago_shearer]

4-3-3 doesn't work at home.

 

Some people need to realise that it's going to take time for us to improve and we were over confident after the Bolton game. A point is a point , no goals conceded and we missed some decent chances.

 

Give our players time and I'm sure it'll work

 

This.

 

The standard of football was very poor at times, but we came up against a good, organized team that plays a very similiar system.  Add in the fact that the midfield underperformed and did not pass the ball well, and we failed to create enough chances.  One game does not mean the tactical system has failed. 

 

Not a great day but no major defensive mistakes, and we come away with a point.  Good result.  All this kneejerk reaction is probably coming from either hyper-optimistic people who thought we were finishing 4th this season or those who seriously underestimate Villa.

[Rob]

I'm a huge fan of 4-3-3, however I don't think we have the players for it. On the road it isn't so much about the players but the system so we should get away with it more often than not as we did away to Bolton. At home though it's about the players, or should be. And today we were far too tied up in the system I thought. By playing the players we are playing in that system at home, it's another form of square pegs in round holes in my opinion.

 

We lacked width, numbers in advanced positions and were too deep in central midfield with not one creative spark between either of Butt, Geremi or Smith. We also lacked pace. This was magnified of course by the opposition coming here for a draw and being defensively strong themselves - and most teams will play like that at St. James' Park.

 

Most of the team bar a few players didn't play anywhere near as good as they are capable of which also didn't help matters either. Geremi was awful in possession and too rash in the tackle while Smith did his best to impersonate Scott Parker. Butt was OK but he was bogged down throughout. While N'Zogbia was tactically put out the game and Viduka and Martins bereft of service. Only the defence as a unit and Harper and Milner came out of it with any real credit, especially Harper and Milner who I thought were fantastic.

 

We are obviously missing a few players who will come in and change things but I believe we should stick to 4-4-2 until Big Sam and Mort can bring in the type of players that can play in a 4-3-3 home and away, players we lack and players we won't get much joy from trying to convert.

 

Time for a rethink Sam.

 

i know its a change over period and time should be given, but he should will have now had a wake up call ... and i would expect something to change the next home game.

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Personally believe that 4-3-3 will work for us both home and away and getting the result will depend on who gets picked to play more than the formation. Playing a very un-creative midfield today offerd us pretty much nothing so we only came away with a point where as a more attacking team and I feel we would of come away with all 3 quite comfortably.

[Guest HyDrO]

Two games in for fucks sake.

I'll happily take the 4 points. We will get on a decent run.

[Willow]

Time for a rethink Sam.

 

After 2 matches?

 

I'm sure he's listening.

[Skeletor]

When they're back Luque and Duff (if playing up to their best) are the ideal candidates for the wide forward positions. I think we'd have far more cutting edge with them out wide and Emre and Barton in the centre with Geremi holding.

[Guest Knightrider]

Time for a rethink Sam.

 

After 2 matches?

 

I'm sure he's listening.

 

Home tactics and formation. I hope people don't think I'm writing us after after just 2 games, but it doesn't take a scientist to know that our lineup/formation/tactics need to change which I'm sure they will. I took many positives out of our game though so I'm not too downhearted.

[S.S.R.]

If we're playing at home, I demand N'Zogbia and Milner on each flank. Duff is slower than either, so he can play second fiddle.

 

Play either Butt or Geremi, not both.

 

Replace Carr with anyone who is right-footed and capable of running.

[Crumpy Gunt]

4-3-3 could cost Sam his job.

 

 

180 minutes 2 lucky goals, 1 cracker - 135 minutes of pure shit.

 

That is FACT.

 

[Scribble]

4-3-3 could cost Sam his job.

 

 

<snip> - 135 minutes of pure s***.

 

That is FACT.

 

Nope just another opinion.

 

Give it time, too early to judge on 2 games, AND still unbeaten, with the defence looking better than last season.

 

It's grossly oversimplifying to say, "135 minutes of pure s***" we've played some good football and some not so good. Villa came for the draw, defended deep, and got their point we couldnt break them down on the day.

 

As for Bolton 2nd half (I'm assuming you're not including 1st half in your total of s*** football fact stat), the job was done, you often see a second half peter out when one side takes a good lead in the 1st half as they look to hold the lead rather than extend it, that's what happened to us then.

 

[madras]

4-3-3 doesn't work at home.

We need a flat 4-4-2 with 2 PROPER wingers playing

and it's 1972

[Ronaldo]

I look forward to Emre's return, at least he'll be positive in possession. Same goes for Barton, they'll shine together

 

Crying out for Duff today tbh, the real Duff, not that Rat faced cunt's version

[madras]

I look forward to Emre's return, at least he'll be positive in possession. Same goes for Barton, they'll shine together

 

Crying out for Duff today tbh, the real Duff, not that Rat faced c***'s version

so you're playing emre and barton in the middle with duff out wide.

[Crumpy Gunt]

4-3-3 could cost Sam his job.

 

 

<snip> - 135 minutes of pure s***.

 

That is FACT.

 

Nope just another opinion.

 

Give it time, too early to judge on 2 games, AND still unbeaten, with the defence looking better than last season.

 

It's grossly oversimplifying to say, "135 minutes of pure s***" we've played some good football and some not so good. Villa came for the draw, defended deep, and got their point we couldnt break them down on the day. As for Bolton 2nd half (I'm assuming you're not including 1st half in your total of s*** football fact stat), the job was done, you often see a second half peter out when one side takes a good lead in the 1st half as they look to hold the lead rather than extend it, that's what happened to us then.

 

 

Villa came for 3 points - they created better chances than we did.

[brummie]

4-3-3 could cost Sam his job.

 

 

<snip> - 135 minutes of pure s***.

 

That is FACT.

 

Nope just another opinion.

 

Give it time, too early to judge on 2 games, AND still unbeaten, with the defence looking better than last season.

 

It's grossly oversimplifying to say, "135 minutes of pure s***" we've played some good football and some not so good. Villa came for the draw, defended deep, and got their point we couldnt break them down on the day. As for Bolton 2nd half (I'm assuming you're not including 1st half in your total of s*** football fact stat), the job was done, you often see a second half peter out when one side takes a good lead in the 1st half as they look to hold the lead rather than extend it, that's what happened to us then.

 

 

Villa came for 3 points - they created better chances than we did.

 

I quite agree, with all the will in the world, I can't see how we can be accused of playing for the draw after we had four very good goalscoring chances, every one of which might have gone in on a different day, whilst our keeper had to make one save in 90 minutes.

 

Barry had an off day, we gifted you the midfield, Milner looked dangerous at times, but he was the only one who did

 

Oh, and if i was one of you, the commentators going on about England when Owen came on would make me so fucking angry ....

 

 

[timnufc22]

N'Zogbia & Milner on the wings at home for me most times. Martins & Viduka upfront and I'd switch Geremi to RB keeping Butt in the centre when Barton returns.

[Keefaz]

Teaching Martins to pass would help, I reckon. I'm not sure we can afford the luxury of a player who can only shoot.

[johnnypd]

4-3-3 could cost Sam his job.

 

 

<snip> - 135 minutes of pure s***.

 

That is FACT.

 

Nope just another opinion.

 

Give it time, too early to judge on 2 games, AND still unbeaten, with the defence looking better than last season.

 

It's grossly oversimplifying to say, "135 minutes of pure s***" we've played some good football and some not so good. Villa came for the draw, defended deep, and got their point we couldnt break them down on the day. As for Bolton 2nd half (I'm assuming you're not including 1st half in your total of s*** football fact stat), the job was done, you often see a second half peter out when one side takes a good lead in the 1st half as they look to hold the lead rather than extend it, that's what happened to us then.

 

 

Villa came for 3 points - they created better chances than we did.

 

not really accurate imo. villa played like a classic away team, getting men behind the ball and soaking up pressure, then counter-attacking on the few occasions when we've commited players up front. not suprising for the away team to have more chances in that situation, but we had the lion's share of the pressure. whenever they attacked it was often 2 vs 2 and even those were out of position, while when it was us, we've been up against 8 players all defending as a tight unit. in that situation we didn't have the players to unlock them.