Say we DON'T sign a creative midfielder...

[STM]

I believe a good 3 man midfield consists of three types of player:

 

1. Defensive midfielder (protection of the back four and a good tackler)

2. Box to Box midfielder (with a good engine and the abilty to pass)

3. Attacking midfielder  (plain and simply, assists and goals)

 

Successfull 3 man midfields down the years:

 

Chelsea-  Makelele, Thiago, Lampard,

Milan- Gattuso, Pirlo, Seedorf

 

If we are going to choose our players it should be by this blueprint, even if not perfect, it isn't far off.

 

[Skirge]

Thing is though will Sam start with Emre at Boro? he has been out a good while and doubt he will risk starting with him anyway, but with Geremi not looking to good as he limped off on Saturday who will he play in the middle?

 

This is how we should line up against Boro!! 

----------------Harper

 

Taylor---Cacapa----Roze---Enrique

 

 

Milner---Smith------Butt----Zoggy

 

--------Martins----Viduka

 

BENCH

Forster

Ramage

Emre

Shola

Owen

 

Or maybe a 4-1-3-2, you can swap Emre and Smith in either.

 

----------------Harper

 

Taylor---Cacapa----Roze---Enrique

 

-----------------Butt

 

----Milner-----Emre------Zoggy

 

--------Martins------Viduka

[STM]

Thing is though will Sam start with Emre at Boro? he has been out a good while and doubt he will risk starting with him anyway, but with Geremi not looking to good as he limped off on Saturday who will he play in the middle?

 

This is how we should line up against Boro!! 

----------------Harper

 

Taylor---Cacapa----Roze---Enrique

 

 

Milner---Smith------Butt----Zoggy

 

--------Martins----Viduka

 

BENCH

Forster

Ramage

Emre

Shola

Owen

 

Or maybe a 4-1-3-2, you can swap Emre and Smith in either.

 

----------------Harper

 

Taylor---Cacapa----Roze---Enrique

 

-----------------Butt

 

----Milner-----Emre------Zoggy

 

--------Martins------Viduka

 

I'd have your 442 but feel as though Owen would be included.

[Shak]

Agree with Baggio and Janitor, I'd have Emre in for games where we feel we need a playmaker and Butt in for the tough away games.

 

I'm not overly convinced Geremi will be able to handle the DM duties by himself either tbh, but I hope he does because him and Butt both playing in CM together will not work at times, as we saw on Saturday.

 

Barton - Geremi - Emre is a trio I'm very much looking forward to seeing in action though.

[Rich]

Barton, Emre and Geremi in a midfield 3 when we're at home and against the weaker teams away, swap Emre for Butt against the better teams away.

 

My opinion on things, too.

 

We were crying out for at least one of Barton/Emre on Saturday, in place of Butt first and foremost.

 

i thought Butt was better than Geremi.

 

Think you've missed the point a bit here, was referring to the fact that it was a home game against opposition that we should be beating and so it might make sense to take out the midfielder who offers the least going forward, i.e. Nicky Butt.

 

As for the comment itself, Butt did a few more sliding tackles than Geremi, but his passing was useless and he offered nowt going forward at all. There is no need for him to be played at home against the likes of Villa, especially in a role where he doesn't seem to be the archetypal defensive midfielder. I'm not sure what instructions he was under, but to me he didn't seem to be playing either role particularly well and put in a decidedly "Parker" performance. Lots of sliding about and commitment, but killed the tempo of the game whenever he got the ball and his passing was atrocious, both short-range and long-range. He did have a couple of quality moments, as he always does, but that isn't enough to justify his selection in my eyes. People do love graft though, as Baggio keeps saying.

 

Allardyce didn't really have a choice, mind, with the performance at Bolton and the injuries.

 

I thought Butt played the firefighting role well - a role he was forced to play by the tactics we employed, and the inability of his team mates (very much including Geremi) to keep the ball.

 

If we are going off that one performance, Geremi shouldn't get a start before Butt. But we aren't, and we know he'll get played. Just hopefully he'll be in a formation he's actually suited to soon.

 

Butt has to take responsibility for giving the ball away as much, if not more, than anyone I'd say, so it's swings and roundabouts there, I'm hoping with Butt out of the line-up and a more creative player in we'll see a lot better from Geremi as well. It's not as black and white as "Butt played better than Geremi, he should play", I reckon Geremi is the better player generally and - like you say - will be an automatic first-choice anyway.

[Guest goal!]

Emre - Based on:

1) Barton being injured.

2) Competition for RW/LW being injured (Duff) and sold (Dyer) leaving best options by far as Zoggy LW and Milner RW.

3a) Zoggy or Milner could play AM but only in a 4-3-3 IMO, both aren't all rounded or strong enough in a central midfield 2.

3b) Solano or Geremi could do a half decent job at RW in a 4-4-2 but neither have the pace really or would have the same impact as Milner, then in a 4-3-3 you could only IMO play Martins/Milner as a right forward and Milner/Zoggy/Luque as a left forward. Can't see Owen fitting in the left or right forward position.

4) The other 3 not being suited to that role, but if you had to play one of them I'd say (by preference) Smith, then Geremi, then last resort Butt.

 

If everyone was fit that's a different story:

Playing 4-4-2 I'd say Barton (Emre seems to sit too deep in midfield even when playing alongside Butt).

Playing 4-4-3 I'd say Barton, Emre, Milner and Zoggy could all play that role with some degree of success, not convinced of Emre's goalscoring ability though.

[Mick]

I don't see how people can have so much faith in Emre as he's never delivered for more than a couple of minutes, he's got a low centre of gravity so comes out of a tackle well, apart from that he has a lot to prove.

 

A 3 man midfield is OK when you're trying to keep a game under control when you're playing a one of the better teams, at home it's just too negative and we lose too much width, the game becomes too narrow for us.

[Skirge]

Trouble is, Emre is our only real play maker but is very injury prone, its hard to get used to a certain formation because when a player like Emre gets injured we do not have a natural replacement.

If Geremi has done his hamstring then Sam will be forced to start with Emre anyway but I would still not go 4-3-3, two major changes to the back four though drop Carr play Taylor at RB, and Cacapa in at CB. Then move Zoggy wide left and play Enrique at LB.

Taylor----Cacapa----Roze----Enrique.  That has to be our back four!!

 

Midfiield should be..

Milner----Butt----?----Zoggy

The ? will be Smith or Emre, with a front two of Martins and Viduka, Owen should not start as he is nowhere near fit enough and should have more reserve games before getting a starting place.

 

 

[TRon]

Barton, Emre and Geremi in a midfield 3 when we're at home and against the weaker teams away, swap Emre for Butt against the better teams away.

 

My opinion on things, too.

 

We were crying out for at least one of Barton/Emre on Saturday, in place of Butt first and foremost.

 

i thought Butt was better than Geremi.

 

Think you've missed the point a bit here, was referring to the fact that it was a home game against opposition that we should be beating and so it might make sense to take out the midfielder who offers the least going forward, i.e. Nicky Butt.

 

As for the comment itself, Butt did a few more sliding tackles than Geremi, but his passing was useless and he offered nowt going forward at all. There is no need for him to be played at home against the likes of Villa, especially in a role where he doesn't seem to be the archetypal defensive midfielder. I'm not sure what instructions he was under, but to me he didn't seem to be playing either role particularly well and put in a decidedly "Parker" performance. Lots of sliding about and commitment, but killed the tempo of the game whenever he got the ball and his passing was atrocious, both short-range and long-range. He did have a couple of quality moments, as he always does, but that isn't enough to justify his selection in my eyes. People do love graft though, as Baggio keeps saying.

 

Allardyce didn't really have a choice, mind, with the performance at Bolton and the injuries.

 

I'm glad somebody else saw the game as I did. For his limited role in the team I thought Butt had a pretty average game at best. Gave the ball away with sloppy passing for which there's no excuse since he mostly passes sideways or backwards in a DM role. Geremi wasn't great either, but his passing range is a bit more ambitious so you can understand a few misplaced.

[toptoon]

Well for those midfield three slots we have: SMITH    BUTT      ZOGGY  or    BARTON  GEREMI    EMRE i'd love to try the latter one when they are all fit, but for now i'd try the first one with Geremi playing RB and Enrique LB

[McCormick]

Emre - Based on:

1) Barton being injured.

2) Competition for RW/LW being injured (Duff) and sold (Dyer) leaving best options by far as Zoggy LW and Milner RW.

3a) Zoggy or Milner could play AM but only in a 4-3-3 IMO, both aren't all rounded or strong enough in a central midfield 2.

3b) Solano or Geremi could do a half decent job at RW in a 4-4-2 but neither have the pace really or would have the same impact as Milner, then in a 4-3-3 you could only IMO play Martins/Milner as a right forward and Milner/Zoggy/Luque as a left forward. Can't see Owen fitting in the left or right forward position.

4) The other 3 not being suited to that role, but if you had to play one of them I'd say (by preference) Smith, then Geremi, then last resort Butt.

 

If everyone was fit that's a different story:

Playing 4-4-2 I'd say Barton (Emre seems to sit too deep in midfield even when playing alongside Butt).

Playing 4-4-3 I'd say Barton, Emre, Milner and Zoggy could all play that role with some degree of success, not convinced of Emre's goalscoring ability though.

 

 

best formation for us imo

[Skirge]

The Deco rumors have not gone away yet, some rumors reckon we may be offering Emre as part of the deal to get Deco. I do not see us beating Inter in the race to sign him though.

[STM]

The Deco rumors have not gone away yet, some rumors reckon we may be offering Emre as part of the deal to get Deco. I do not see us beating Inter in the race to sign him though.

 

I think Barca would far prefer to sell him to us though and Deco might fancy our league. Don't see it happening personally.

[McCormick]

The Deco rumors have not gone away yet, some rumors reckon we may be offering Emre as part of the deal to get Deco. I do not see us beating Inter in the race to sign him though.

 

tell that to Dave..  he'll tell you that its News of the world and not worth discussing 

[Parky]

Basically we haven't got a creative midfielder, but we do have box to box (Barton) and a gaggle of DM's. In the modern game fans crying out for the signing of creative players is seen as some form of sickness by most managers, SA included and a wild luxury by others. None of these stances bears up to scrutiny as all the top teams have creative midfielders in their various guises and players who are dual role. And the newly arrived ELANO is doing wonders for Man City proving my point with ease.

[Skirge]

The Deco rumors have not gone away yet, some rumors reckon we may be offering Emre as part of the deal to get Deco. I do not see us beating Inter in the race to sign him though.

 

tell that to Dave..  he'll tell you that its News of the world and not worth discussing 

is that where it originated from?

[Guest]

The thing with Boro is that apart from Boateng, they're hardly "bullies" like Bolton. I'd sooner we went more attacking this weekend.

[EthiGeordie]

Can some one confirm or deny our link about Deco? I mean how serious it is?

 

[Parky]

Can some one confirm or deny our link about Deco? I mean how serious it is?

 

 

 

We are serious not sure how serious Deco is. But you never know.

[Northern Monkey]

Basically we haven't got a creative midfielder, but we do have box to box (Barton) and a gaggle of DM's. In the modern game fans crying out for the signing of creative players is seen as some form of sickness by most managers, SA included and a wild luxury by others. None of these stances bears up to scrutiny as all the top teams have creative midfielders in their various guises and players who are dual role. And the newly arrived ELANO is doing wonders for Man City proving my point with ease.

 

does he tell you EVERYTHING?? You'd think he'd keep some things to himself for his autobiography.

[Guest Magic]

Personally I'm quite a big fan of Emre, I like the fact that he's prepared to get stuck in, that he likes to control the game and pass the ball around, that whenever he's dribbling he's always got his head up and looking around. I also think he's got a lot of technical ability.

 

For me probably the two biggest things as to why he hasn't been a success so far (not counting injuries - it would take too long) :

 

1) No movement in the team. He's the sort of player that thrives on space; he'll burst into a gap, pass through a gap etc. Trouble is since SBR left our team has had no movement at all. Just a bunch of static players hoping something lucky will happen. If we can start moving fluidly and making space then he'll be far more effective.

 

2) His game is perhaps not ideally suited to 442, especially in England where there is relatively little time on the ball. He's not really an attacking midfielder. Not in the traditional sense anyway. He tends to sit back and try to dictate a game, he's not one who gets ahead of the ball much, he's not going to get into many goalscoring opportunities. If we're playing 442 and he's the 'attacking' one of the CM combo (eg when playing with Butt) then chances are the strikers are going to get a bit isolated and we won't have anyone following up on the edge of the box to help press home an attack.

 

On the other hand he's not good enough defensively to be the defensive CM playing with a guy running ahead to make space (eg Dyer). He's game for a tackle and puts himself about, but like Parker he's a bit of a Terrier, chasing after anything that comes near him, he doesn't have the discipline to protect a back four. Plus he tends to stop trying to defend once he's within about 5/10 yards of our own area.

 

Just perhaps though, in a three man CM he could do well. Emre, Barton, Geremi/Butt - One to protect the defense, Emre to dictate the play (and he'll do his bit getting stuck in in defence), and Barton to bomb forward and support the strikers. If we can get our wide strikers moving about a bit and making some space then our midfield could provide good defensive cover, the ability to dictate tempo and spread the play, and support for the strikers and a few goals.

[Mowen]

Basically we haven't got a creative midfielder, but we do have box to box (Barton) and a gaggle of DM's. In the modern game fans crying out for the signing of creative players is seen as some form of sickness by most managers, SA included and a wild luxury by others. None of these stances bears up to scrutiny as all the top teams have creative midfielders in their various guises and players who are dual role. And the newly arrived ELANO is doing wonders for Man City proving my point with ease.

 

does he tell you EVERYTHING?? You'd think he'd keep some things to himself for his autobiography.

 

[Guest Alex20]

Emre is an incredibly intelligent footballer. He just needs to be cemented into this role and not put in holding positions like he was under Roeder.

 

Spot on.

 

I was amazed at the way Roeder played the midfield, letting parker play the AMC role and Emre the DMC role, complete and utter joke tbh.

Besides, the past 2 years were shit, horrible defensively as well as offensively. Not really a great team to judge a player from.

Your only as good as the players around you, last year was just horrible with bramble, babayaro, carr, parker etc.

This year I'm optimistic, think Emre's going to be more consistent and will shine because of the quality surrounding him.

 

Though I'm worried about the 4-3-3 formation.Not a big fan, and we don't exactly have the players

that fit that formation. Would have preferred a 3-5-2 or a 4-4-2, maybe even a 4-2-3-1.