Unbelievable Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Best wind-up I've seen for a while, fair play. Don't tell me I've lost my Captain Pessimistic title!? Even I think this reaction is a bit overboard, but I don't think it's a wind-up and it certainly isn't complete nonsense, as BottledDog has argued very well. I have been impressed with Allardyce's strengthening of the squad on a small budget and with Mort's recent handling of the media and supporters (much better than before!). All in all the outlay that has been made (excluding the 30 million that has gone into debt reduction for the long term financial health of the club and of course the money that went into acquiring the club in the first place) hasn't been sufficient to narrow the gap to the top clubs in this country at the moment, some of which have significantly strengthened their squads. In the long run, very significant investments will need to be made to get us up to the level where I expect Ashley wants us to be, even moreso as a lot of other clubs have been taken over and their owners are spending like mad as well. Not all will get it right of course, but if we continue to spend below average on the playing side I'm not sure if we're giving Allardyce everythign he needs to succeed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we? was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate... nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unbelievable Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we? was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate... nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million If spending money means nothing (i.e. doesn't increase the chances of success), do you believe that Chelsea would have been champions twice in the last three seasons without Abramovic's oil dollars? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we? was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate... nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million rightio then.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Best wind-up I've seen for a while, fair play. Don't tell me I've lost my Captain Pessimistic title!? Even I think this reaction is a bit overboard, but I don't think it's a wind-up and it certainly isn't complete nonsense, as BottledDog has argued very well. I have been impressed with Allardyce's strengthening of the squad on a small budget and with Mort's recent handling of the media and supporters (much better than before!). All in all the outlay that has been made (excluding the 30 million that has gone into debt reduction for the long term financial health of the club and of course the money that went into acquiring the club in the first place) hasn't been sufficient to narrow the gap to the top clubs in this country at the moment, some of which have significantly strengthened their squads. In the long run, very significant investments will need to be made to get us up to the level where I expect Ashley wants us to be, even moreso as a lot of other clubs have been taken over and their owners are spending like mad as well. Not all will get it right of course, but if we continue to spend below average on the playing side I'm not sure if we're giving Allardyce everythign he needs to succeed. I assumed it was a wind-up because of this post from BrazilianBob in July (less than a month ago): Don't get me wrong, hope we do splash the cash, but we have all said at some stage in the past that trophy signings don't work. Instead, I expect to see a moderate investment each season rather than splashing out £20m on one or two players. I think we will see perhaps one £7m signing, possibly Curtis Davies, with maybe Sami Hyppia on a free, followed by LB Shorey for £5m. We will then have Baba and Shorey for LB with N'Zogbia as emergency cover, Carr and Geremi for RB with Taylor as emergency cover, and Taylor, Rozenhal, Hyppia and Davies for centre back, with Ramage, Huntington, and Edgar as reserve cover. An outlay of £12m tops, but possibly only £10m, which will easily be covered by the season ticket money plus whatever we get for Dyer, without MA putting his hand in his pocket at all. OK he now owns the club, but he will be using our money to build on his investment, rest assured of that! We look to be spending exactly the outlay that he suggested 4 weeks ago on this very forum if Faye comes in from Bolton for around the £2M mooted price, so either Bob's the most fickle fan I've (almost) ever come across or he's trying to wind people up. Hope that clears things up regarding my viewpoint on the opening post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest firetotheworks Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we? was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate... nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million If spending money means nothing (i.e. doesn't increase the chances of success), do you believe that Chelsea would have been champions twice in the last three seasons without Abramovic's oil dollars? Im not talking about Chelsea, Im talking about us. Of course money made a difference to Chelsea, but they also spent a large amount when Ranieri was in charge and still came 2nd. Mourinho made just as big a difference as the money did in my opinion. Theres a difference between a rolls royce with a monkey at the wheel (ie Souness) and one with a decent manager (is mourinho) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we? was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate... nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million If spending money means nothing (i.e. doesn't increase the chances of success), do you believe that Chelsea would have been champions twice in the last three seasons without Abramovic's oil dollars? ManC have spent a lot but you must bear in mind they had little quality to begin with. And Spurs have purchased all the wrong players for large sums. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 We've swapped: Antoine Sibierski Kieron Dyer Scott Parker Craig Moore Titus Bramble Olivier Bernard For: Mark Viduka Alan Smith Joey Barton Geremi David Rozenhal Cacapa Jose Enrique Every single replacement an improvement, most of them massive improvements. Yeah we might as well give up now since improving the quality of our squad is no way to go about improving this clubs fortunes is it?! Behead Allardyce, that's what I say!! Seriously though is there a ignore function on this messageboard? Because I really think I need to add BB to it if there is.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Sniffer Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Everybody, including BB, agrees that we have improved the squad if you read his post, teasy, so you just wasted your time typing that out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 This thread is a complete utter piss take!! anyone who isnt happy with our new signings, start to the season and who big sam has got rid of...then you need shot you cant expect us to win the league... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 F***ing hell nowt like jumping on someone case, this board just seems to be littered with sheep these days, "ooh it's the popular opinion, I must ridicule anyone that thinks otherwise". /sigh Read what the OP said and he's actually making a lot of perfectly reasonable points as BottledDog has pointed out, the depth of the squad has not been addressed, we look well stocked up front but there's not much backing up the first team at the back and in midfield. Barring an extremely fortutious draw we have little chase of winning either of the 2 cups we have entered this year and considering the quality of the other teams we'll have done really extremely well to finish in the top 7, although it is possible I would not say it's probable. When you look at the investment in the playing staff, £7mill net, it is not lavish, I don't think anyone want's trophy signings for the sake of it but we do need a couple more quality signings, that can give us a little more class and help us to push on and compete near the top of the division. SA has addressed alot of our shortcomings, we are going to be much more difficult to beat but my worry currently is were not going to win enough of the matches we should win because we don't have that quality which is needed sometimes. It's been a good start to a big rebuilding job but it's only a start and I must admit with a Billionaire owner I probably expected a little more. Comparisions will be made with Man City, whom I think have bought excellently, it'll be interesting to see who'll get to where they want to be first. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 I've got Ashley's spending down at just over £170m in around 3 months. You're about as far wrong with your calculations as everything else you said. I cant be arsed to argue from false premises with people who havent got the brains to reflect on the situation intelligently and consider where we were and where we are now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Everybody, including BB, agrees that we have improved the squad if you read his post, teasy, so you just wasted your time typing that out. Bollocks quite frankly. He's claiming this season has been wasted already. I'm saying that replacing 6 players who weren't good enough with 7 far superior players points to anything but a wasted season ahead. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
afar Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 We've swapped: Antoine Sibierski Kieron Dyer Scott Parker Craig Moore Titus Bramble Olivier Bernard For: Mark Viduka Alan Smith Joey Barton Geremi David Rozenhal Cacapa Jose Enrique Every single replacement an improvement, most of them massive improvements. Yeah we might as well give up now since improving the quality of our squad is no way to go about improving this clubs fortunes is it?! Behead Allardyce, that's what I say!! Seriously though is there a ignore function on this messageboard? Because I really think I need to add BB to it if there is.. You people still don't see the point the OP is making, I think we can all acknowledge that improvements have been made, he's just questioning whether we've made big enough strides to propell us to were we feel we should be. Personally with the improvements to our squad and to the squads of the other teams in the league, I think we'll finish in 8th or 9th, better than last year but still mid table and out of Europe. That's the point he's making, he was hoping for better, me too if I'm honest. If Ashley had said when he took over I'm going to give Big Sam the grand total of £7mill to spend on players this summer then a think a lot of people would have been disappointed, most would have expected at least £20mill, "the blokes a Billionaire for goodness sake". Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Who says the spending is over with? Also, who isn't taking sign-on fees into account? Geremi's was £2M, I'd assume Viduka's was even more, Caçapa won't been strictly "free" either... £30M ploughed in to clear the debt, as well. People have very, very short memories. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 We've swapped: Antoine Sibierski Kieron Dyer Scott Parker Craig Moore Titus Bramble Olivier Bernard For: Mark Viduka Alan Smith Joey Barton Geremi David Rozenhal Cacapa Jose Enrique Every single replacement an improvement, most of them massive improvements. Yeah we might as well give up now since improving the quality of our squad is no way to go about improving this clubs fortunes is it?! Behead Allardyce, that's what I say!! Seriously though is there a ignore function on this messageboard? Because I really think I need to add BB to it if there is.. You people still don't see the point the OP is making, I think we can all acknowledge that improvements have been made, he's just questioning whether we've made big enough strides to propell us to were we feel we should be. Personally with the improvements to our squad and to the squads of the other teams in the league, I think we'll finish in 8th or 9th, better than last year but still mid table and out of Europe. That's the point he's making, he was hoping for better, me too if I'm honest. If Ashley had said when he took over I'm going to give Big Sam the grand total of £7mill to spend on players this summer then a think a lot of people would have been disappointed, most would have expected at least £20mill, "the blokes a Billionaire for goodness sake". Are you being deliberately thick? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conjo Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 I fear we will end up mid table yet again with nothing in the trophy cabinet but 40 year old dust I don't think so. Surley there must be someone dusting the cabinet at least once a month? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parky Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 We've swapped: Antoine Sibierski Kieron Dyer Scott Parker Craig Moore Titus Bramble Olivier Bernard For: Mark Viduka Alan Smith Joey Barton Geremi David Rozenhal Cacapa Jose Enrique Every single replacement an improvement, most of them massive improvements. Yeah we might as well give up now since improving the quality of our squad is no way to go about improving this clubs fortunes is it?! Behead Allardyce, that's what I say!! Seriously though is there a ignore function on this messageboard? Because I really think I need to add BB to it if there is.. You people still don't see the point the OP is making, I think we can all acknowledge that improvements have been made, he's just questioning whether we've made big enough strides to propell us to were we feel we should be. Personally with the improvements to our squad and to the squads of the other teams in the league, I think we'll finish in 8th or 9th, better than last year but still mid table and out of Europe. That's the point he's making, he was hoping for better, me too if I'm honest. If Ashley had said when he took over I'm going to give Big Sam the grand total of £7mill to spend on players this summer then a think a lot of people would have been disappointed, most would have expected at least £20mill, "the blokes a Billionaire for goodness sake". Are you being deliberately thick? He's behind you! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 We've swapped: Antoine Sibierski Kieron Dyer Scott Parker Craig Moore Titus Bramble Olivier Bernard For: Mark Viduka Alan Smith Joey Barton Geremi David Rozenhal Cacapa Jose Enrique Every single replacement an improvement, most of them massive improvements. Yeah we might as well give up now since improving the quality of our squad is no way to go about improving this clubs fortunes is it?! Behead Allardyce, that's what I say!! Seriously though is there a ignore function on this messageboard? Because I really think I need to add BB to it if there is.. You people still don't see the point the OP is making, I think we can all acknowledge that improvements have been made, he's just questioning whether we've made big enough strides to propell us to were we feel we should be. Personally with the improvements to our squad and to the squads of the other teams in the league, I think we'll finish in 8th or 9th, better than last year but still mid table and out of Europe. That's the point he's making, he was hoping for better, me too if I'm honest. If Ashley had said when he took over I'm going to give Big Sam the grand total of £7mill to spend on players this summer then a think a lot of people would have been disappointed, most would have expected at least £20mill, "the blokes a Billionaire for goodness sake". Who would expect us to get where we "should" be after just one transfer window, with a new manager, in a difficult market, with wholesale replacements and urgent strengthening needed first and foremost, during the upheaval involved in a takeover of the club? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCormick Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 F***ing hell nowt like jumping on someone case, this board just seems to be littered with sheep these days, "ooh it's the popular opinion, I must ridicule anyone that thinks otherwise". /sigh Read what the OP said and he's actually making a lot of perfectly reasonable points as BottledDog has pointed out, the depth of the squad has not been addressed, we look well stocked up front but there's not much backing up the first team at the back and in midfield. Barring an extremely fortutious draw we have little chase of winning either of the 2 cups we have entered this year and considering the quality of the other teams we'll have done really extremely well to finish in the top 7, although it is possible I would not say it's probable. When you look at the investment in the playing staff, £7mill net, it is not lavish, I don't think anyone want's trophy signings for the sake of it but we do need a couple more quality signings, that can give us a little more class and help us to push on and compete near the top of the division. SA has addressed alot of our shortcomings, we are going to be much more difficult to beat but my worry currently is were not going to win enough of the matches we should win because we don't have that quality which is needed sometimes. It's been a good start to a big rebuilding job but it's only a start and I must admit with a Billionaire owner I probably expected a little more. Comparisions will be made with Man City, whom I think have bought excellently, it'll be interesting to see who'll get to where they want to be first. Have they? Man city took enormous risks with their purchases, they bought players who did reasonably well in their respective leagues and a lot of money was spent by a rather mediocre manager... sound familiar?, think back to us a few years ago. whether these new-comers are going to have the desired effect is still very much the question; if they do work out then good on sven for taking these risks. I think we've done very well this transfer season and bought some rather good players at bargain basement prices. We've improved the team vastly without having to spend megabucks; if we paid for viduka, geremi and cacapa would you be happier then? just to prove we have the money. Its the first season, the stabilizer.. ashley needs to assess what we need and how much investment is needed by watching us this season; he's not going to piss away his own money because people want to complain about a low net spend.. Do we need a playmaker? yes, but don't forget we have very good midfieldes who, surprisingly, are adept enough to make through balls and, with the strikeforce that we have; it would be unfeasible to think that we aren't a side with goals in us. Complaining now 2 games in, is outlandish to say the least.. at least give the team time to positively assert your assumptions that this season will not be a success. le'ts just say this.. isn't it a testament to big sam that we actually have these high hopes to begin with? when last yearwas a complete farce. Give the team a time for stability instead of heaping on the negativity, it helps nobody. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ross magoo Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we? was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate... nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million If spending money means nothing (i.e. doesn't increase the chances of success), do you believe that Chelsea would have been champions twice in the last three seasons without Abramovic's oil dollars? Do you believe Chelsea would have been able to attract the kind of players required to win titles if they weren't already in the Champions League when Abramovich took over? You're not comparing like with like imo. I'm not saying spending money means nothing but it is only one factor among many others. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OzzieMandias Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 Is this thread a joke? Some people need to take a look at whats happened since we lost at home to blackburn last season and then get a f****** grip. We've got everything we've asked for and we've played 2 games and are unbeaten, yet STILL some people are finding things to moan about. Oh aye, and souness spent 50million, won the title didnt we? was that a dig at me? cos i was taking the piss mate... nah it wasnt, I havent even read what you said. My point was just part of what BB is moaning about is the amount weve spent, when imo it means nothing when you consider souness spent 50million If spending money means nothing (i.e. doesn't increase the chances of success), do you believe that Chelsea would have been champions twice in the last three seasons without Abramovic's oil dollars? If spending money means everything, do you believe that Bolton would be in the UEFA Cup this season? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teasy Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 You people still don't see the point the OP is making, I think we can all acknowledge that improvements have been made, he's just questioning whether we've made big enough strides to propell us to were we feel we should be. Personally with the improvements to our squad and to the squads of the other teams in the league, I think we'll finish in 8th or 9th, better than last year but still mid table and out of Europe. That's the point he's making, he was hoping for better, me too if I'm honest. If Ashley had said when he took over I'm going to give Big Sam the grand total of £7mill to spend on players this summer then a think a lot of people would have been disappointed, most would have expected at least £20mill, "the blokes a Billionaire for goodness sake". I've got news for you mate, I'm only one person.. I get the point, and its a crazy overeaction. This reminds me of that Queen song, "I want it all and I want it now!!"... We will not get back to where 'we feel we should be" over night. Personally I feel we should be in the top 4, but that's something that will only happen over time. I think everyone agreed when Allardyce came in that the first order of business was to clear out the wasters and replace them with good players, that's now been done and done very well IMO. If there's time to start the next step this window (and remember that getting players all depends on the right player being available for the right price and actually wanting to come) then great. But if not I'm still happy that we've made a major step forward in building the foundations for a very good squad. As for how much money has been spent. Before we sold Dyer, which was not guarenteed to happen at all, we'd spent around £14 million. So clearly there is more to spend, but that's useless if the right players aren't available or are uninterested because of our lack of European football and poor finish last season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChezGiven Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 We've swapped: Antoine Sibierski Kieron Dyer Scott Parker Craig Moore Titus Bramble Olivier Bernard For: Mark Viduka Alan Smith Joey Barton Geremi David Rozenhal Cacapa Jose Enrique Every single replacement an improvement, most of them massive improvements. Yeah we might as well give up now since improving the quality of our squad is no way to go about improving this clubs fortunes is it?! Behead Allardyce, that's what I say!! Seriously though is there a ignore function on this messageboard? Because I really think I need to add BB to it if there is.. You people still don't see the point the OP is making, I think we can all acknowledge that improvements have been made, he's just questioning whether we've made big enough strides to propell us to were we feel we should be. Personally with the improvements to our squad and to the squads of the other teams in the league, I think we'll finish in 8th or 9th, better than last year but still mid table and out of Europe. That's the point he's making, he was hoping for better, me too if I'm honest. If Ashley had said when he took over I'm going to give Big Sam the grand total of £7mill to spend on players this summer then a think a lot of people would have been disappointed, most would have expected at least £20mill, "the blokes a Billionaire for goodness sake". Are you being deliberately thick? He's behind you! In their defence, Mort does have plans to give away free tickets to the christmas Panto for all supporters who break 110Dcb when booing. Stewards will be carrying sound meters. Free custard pies on the door if you wave clown shoes above your head. http://www.nufc.premiumtv.co.uk/page/NewsDetail/0,,10278~1098241,00.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted August 23, 2007 Share Posted August 23, 2007 A classic wind up, this thread. It's farcical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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