madras

is this confirmed or should some dash out to put lots of money on it ?

i work with a few mackems and it's crossed my mind since the 'shirt of hurt' started as to how far i'd dig into my own pocket not to don the tampax-a-like top.

us/boredeaux/barce for tomorrow.

anyone listen to danny baker on saturday mornings ? he has a section called "and nothing can go wrong now" in which people call in and tell of times when said this and it's blown up in their faces.

http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/630/GrammarNaziCat.jpg Without wishing to sound pedantic it was a spelling error I pointed out and not a grammatical one. You do understand the difference don't you ? Further to that, I would never criticise the grammar or spelling of anyone posting on here (we can all make mistakes) but when it is quoted from a media source then I think it's fair game to have a go at them as they should do better. In fact the number of mis-spellings, grammatical and pronunciation errors delivered by highly paid journalists on Sky etc is quite shameful and shows how far their profession has declined. i'll be honest, i thought tow the line was the correct usage probably form a nautical thing. having googled it is indeed toe the line.

too early i'd have thought.

Yes, I agree. It is unbelievable how far down Ashley has managed to take the club in such a relatively short space of time, undoing all of the excellent work done by those he bought the club from. the undoing of the excellent work started arond 2004. So you keep saying, mate and I read it the first time months ago. It's mildly interesting that according to others the decline started in 2003, when despite heavily investing in the playing squad for the previous 'x' years and bringing in 3 players during 2003, this wasn't ambitious enough. It does seem somewhat stupid to be blaming the situation in 2010 on what happened half a decade ago but then you do have a big determination to not give any credit where it's due. They made mistakes, nobody has ever denied that, but the ambition they showed for the football club transcends anything we've seen so far from Ashley and his crowd of football morons. Ashley took over a PL club and knacked it through a series of poor decisions, it's a fairly straightforward situation to understand. ashley took over a club going backwards rapidly in every sense. it does seem stupid you trying to make out that i'm referring to only 2004 in particular and not the timeframe since then. yes ashleys decisions have contributed to us being relegated, however by the end of fred's time i wanted him rid as that was where i saw us heading anyway. then again if you don't think we were going backwards with little chance of turning it round due to the financial position we were in then it's not worth discussing further as it's not really being truthful to the situation as was. (oh i also said "AROUND" 2004, surely you aren't goiung to be so petty to want an exact date) edit...i have gave nothing but praise for the previous board until around the time of robsons leaving. I don't give a toss whether you gave the previous Board praise or not. What I'm saying it is ridiculous to blame anyone other than Ashley for what has happened to the club since the day he took it over. It's nearly 3 bloody years ago, man. He took over a PL league club and took it backwards. Simple as that. if you don't give a toss why make a point of saying i have " a big determination not to give credit when it's due" when what seems patently obvious is you won't give criticism when it's due. I mentioned it because it's a fact, not because I'm bothered. how is it a fact when you know i have gave credit where and when it was due ?

Yes, I agree. It is unbelievable how far down Ashley has managed to take the club in such a relatively short space of time, undoing all of the excellent work done by those he bought the club from. the undoing of the excellent work started arond 2004. So you keep saying, mate and I read it the first time months ago. It's mildly interesting that according to others the decline started in 2003, when despite heavily investing in the playing squad for the previous 'x' years and bringing in 3 players during 2003, this wasn't ambitious enough. It does seem somewhat stupid to be blaming the situation in 2010 on what happened half a decade ago but then you do have a big determination to not give any credit where it's due. They made mistakes, nobody has ever denied that, but the ambition they showed for the football club transcends anything we've seen so far from Ashley and his crowd of football morons. Ashley took over a PL club and knacked it through a series of poor decisions, it's a fairly straightforward situation to understand. ashley took over a club going backwards rapidly in every sense. it does seem stupid you trying to make out that i'm referring to only 2004 in particular and not the timeframe since then. yes ashleys decisions have contributed to us being relegated, however by the end of fred's time i wanted him rid as that was where i saw us heading anyway. then again if you don't think we were going backwards with little chance of turning it round due to the financial position we were in then it's not worth discussing further as it's not really being truthful to the situation as was. (oh i also said "AROUND" 2004, surely you aren't goiung to be so petty to want an exact date) edit...i have gave nothing but praise for the previous board until around the time of robsons leaving. This is what I don't understand. Why weren't you critical of them in 98 then? How was the slump between 97 & 2001 different to the one we were going through? The wages were 64% of turnover, the debt was £66m when the turnover was only £55m, we finished bottom half for 4 years. In many ways we were in a far worse position then than the one Ashley inherited, yet you and others are trying to paint it as almost inevitable that we would have been relegated and/or gone into administration. If you're going to be critical of how the club was run in the past, then at least be consistent and say that if you'd had your way we would not have extended the stadium or given Robson the money to buy hit and miss purchases such as Bassedas, Cort, Bellamy, Robert, Viana, Bramble, Woodgate, or going further back bought "trophy players" such as Shearer. We shouldn't have risked any of that, and should have played it safe like Villa, Everton, Spurs, etc did back then. Just admit that you'd rather have uncomplainingly settled for mid table mediocrity year in year out, selling off any good young players who came through to the big boys to balance the books, than watch us in FA cup finals, Champions League football, European games every other year, have top players at the club, because the bit of added financial risk that if it didn't work out we'd have to cut back and regroup for a few years just wasn't worth it. When Ashley took over and after his first Summer of transfers there was no talk of relegation, it was all about whether or not we'd be able to get into Europe. The squad he inherited had had a bad year with injuries, but were comfortably a mid table squad in a normal year, Ashley had the money to pay off the debts and the full extent of the club's finances were known to him. At that point Ashley had control of the club and had money available to rectify any financial problems (he chose to spend some of his money paying for players in one lump sum rather than spreading the payments). No matter what you think of what would have happened to the club otherwise, at that point the club was stable. That is the context and the point from which Ashley should be judged, not in comparison to some theoretical disastrous future differing wildly from what happened under similar circumstances in the past. Even if it were the case, whether or not we would have been relegated at some point under the old board because they didn't have access to any more external cash is IRRELEVANT to how Ashley's performance as owner should be judged. You are the one who is not really being truthful to the situation as was and the scale for which our relegation, currently far poorer squad, and bleak near future is completely down to Ashley. i probably would have complained had i took notice of the finances then as i do now (i'm also guessing that back then there were still things to borrow against) and had the gambling not paid off then, as it didn't with owen/luque etc we may have hit the position of 2007 earlier. the season he took over we were lloking over our shoulders at relegation till we beat sheff utd away. as for the external cash bit, of course it's relevant as the business was in the same position in regards it's ability to raise cash unless some person came along to put his own cash in (and yes i know he is only doing it to get some sort of return or more likely an attempt to minimise his losses. you've spelled it out yourself, robson was given money and it worked, we tried it again and it didn't work...............can we keep on doing it until it does work or at some point will those lending the money say 'no' ?

Yes, I agree. It is unbelievable how far down Ashley has managed to take the club in such a relatively short space of time, undoing all of the excellent work done by those he bought the club from. the undoing of the excellent work started arond 2004. So you keep saying, mate and I read it the first time months ago. It's mildly interesting that according to others the decline started in 2003, when despite heavily investing in the playing squad for the previous 'x' years and bringing in 3 players during 2003, this wasn't ambitious enough. It does seem somewhat stupid to be blaming the situation in 2010 on what happened half a decade ago but then you do have a big determination to not give any credit where it's due. They made mistakes, nobody has ever denied that, but the ambition they showed for the football club transcends anything we've seen so far from Ashley and his crowd of football morons. Ashley took over a PL club and knacked it through a series of poor decisions, it's a fairly straightforward situation to understand. ashley took over a club going backwards rapidly in every sense. it does seem stupid you trying to make out that i'm referring to only 2004 in particular and not the timeframe since then. yes ashleys decisions have contributed to us being relegated, however by the end of fred's time i wanted him rid as that was where i saw us heading anyway. then again if you don't think we were going backwards with little chance of turning it round due to the financial position we were in then it's not worth discussing further as it's not really being truthful to the situation as was. (oh i also said "AROUND" 2004, surely you aren't goiung to be so petty to want an exact date) edit...i have gave nothing but praise for the previous board until around the time of robsons leaving. I don't give a toss whether you gave the previous Board praise or not. What I'm saying it is ridiculous to blame anyone other than Ashley for what has happened to the club since the day he took it over. It's nearly 3 bloody years ago, man. He took over a PL league club and took it backwards. Simple as that. if you don't give a toss why make a point of saying i have " a big determination not to give credit when it's due" when what seems patently obvious is you won't give criticism when it's due.

Wittingham has missed half the season has he not? and Brunt? really? Dorrans is a much better player... Adam is superb, and probs a bit closer to the national opinion of Nolan than Nolan actually is...though Nolan is over-criticised on this forum like, his actual level of ability lies somewhere inbetween... Whittingham has played in 32 games so I assume not. Scored 16 goals ... 9 assists. Aye Dorrans is probably a better candidate than Brunt. Can't see how Nolan has won this, at all. Whittingham, Ambrose & Dorrans take pens, free kicks and corners. Whittingham & Dorrans have about half a dozen pens each, and it's no wonder their assists stats are slightly better if they're taking most of the set pieces. I'm impressed if people have watched half as many full games of West Brom, Cardiff, Crystal Palace, Blackpool, etc as they have of ours to make the judgement on their superiority for other reasons, but the fact that despite having less goals and assists he has a higher actim rating than them makes me think that he must be doing something in general play that they aren't (tackles, completed passes, etc). Well done Kevin. Fully deserved. i take your point UV about not seeing enough of other clubs to judge their players properly, however i'm guessing quite a few have seen enough of our games to know he hasn't been our best player this season let alone the leagues.

Yes, I agree. It is unbelievable how far down Ashley has managed to take the club in such a relatively short space of time, undoing all of the excellent work done by those he bought the club from. the undoing of the excellent work started arond 2004. So you keep saying, mate and I read it the first time months ago. It's mildly interesting that according to others the decline started in 2003, when despite heavily investing in the playing squad for the previous 'x' years and bringing in 3 players during 2003, this wasn't ambitious enough. It does seem somewhat stupid to be blaming the situation in 2010 on what happened half a decade ago but then you do have a big determination to not give any credit where it's due. They made mistakes, nobody has ever denied that, but the ambition they showed for the football club transcends anything we've seen so far from Ashley and his crowd of football morons. Ashley took over a PL club and knacked it through a series of poor decisions, it's a fairly straightforward situation to understand. ashley took over a club going backwards rapidly in every sense. it does seem stupid you trying to make out that i'm referring to only 2004 in particular and not the timeframe since then. yes ashleys decisions have contributed to us being relegated, however by the end of fred's time i wanted him rid as that was where i saw us heading anyway. then again if you don't think we were going backwards with little chance of turning it round due to the financial position we were in then it's not worth discussing further as it's not really being truthful to the situation as was. (oh i also said "AROUND" 2004, surely you aren't goiung to be so petty to want an exact date) edit...i have gave nothing but praise for the previous board until around the time of robsons leaving.

chelsea as a single then another mixed 4 timer.....preston/sevilla backed...yeovil/swansea laid.

Yes, I agree. It is unbelievable how far down Ashley has managed to take the club in such a relatively short space of time, undoing all of the excellent work done by those he bought the club from. the undoing of the excellent work started arond 2004.

Could potentially be big wins tommorow though. 6/4 etc's all over the place. took only chelsea so far.....may go for preston.

what did you lose on ? on £40 worth of bets i'm about £3 up.

I will pledge £2 for every goal we score on wednesday and on saturday..............anyone care to join me ?

if things like virtues of their fans come into it then the likes of shrewsbury and rochdale, stockport,bury and hereford must pick up massive points. 20 clubs i'd want to see in the top flight....i'd choose 20 clubs whose fans have turned up year after year knowing they were never in for any sort of success.

Tell me I've just read that wrong and you didn't say that we're playing better football than the last time we were promoted under keegan. Correct me if i'm wrong but haven't we got more points under Hughton at this stage than Keegan. Of course you know which football i would prefer to see. Forgive me Mick, i'm in clever arse mode. Better, in my mind mean's more effective, not more attractive. For example Arsenal play more attractive football than Chelsea but it's probably not better. because we have more points doesn't even mean we were more effective. keegans promotion team dominated games in a way this team hasn't/couldn't. this team has picked up a lot of points in games where we couldn't have argued with a point. plus keegans team could have competed well in the prem, this team would be at best in a relegation fight. Points = effectiveness. The thought of Hughton's bores being more effective than Keegan's entertainers is a horrific one but it's true. I must confess, i won't be defending Hughton's men after this post merely for symbolic purposes. On a more general note, we need to start deciding what sort of team we want because if we try and play attractive football we could get pwned in the premiership. no they don't...if so have the team with the record points total been the most effective team in history ?

Tell me I've just read that wrong and you didn't say that we're playing better football than the last time we were promoted under keegan. Correct me if i'm wrong but haven't we got more points under Hughton at this stage than Keegan. Of course you know which football i would prefer to see. Forgive me Mick, i'm in clever arse mode. Better, in my mind mean's more effective, not more attractive. For example Arsenal play more attractive football than Chelsea but it's probably not better. because we have more points doesn't even mean we were more effective. keegans promotion team dominated games in a way this team hasn't/couldn't. this team has picked up a lot of points in games where we couldn't have argued with a point. plus keegans team could have competed well in the prem, this team would be at best in a relegation fight.

i haven't seen either team recently but had a look at the stats and current form etc and i've hopped on that to £20. also gone a mixed accy of orebro/liverpool back...gefle/osasuna laid.

personally i think we should all be backing valarenga to appease the wagering gods and make it more likely Mr Zero's bet comes off.

anyone else pissed off as to the news treatment of this ? so massivly over the top for a player who in all probability wouldn't make the starting 11 and many think maybe shouldn't even be in the squad.

oi.... I think you'll find that I pm'd him to start giving a bit of a low down on the norwegian leagues so i'll have that thanks if you don't mind. (i know, absolutly shameless aren't I)

'outside their juristiction ? this isn't smokey and the bandit where police can't cross state lines you know. :lol: i think i should have put a "fuck me" after the question mark....what do you reckon ?

Adam Johnson I hope. That would be a quite amazing turnaround. In the Championship in the autumn, in the World Cup by summer. He's never got a callup, however, will Capello put in the squad a player that he's never worked with? Thing is, there is an additional place to fill now. Are there any other players who are on the fringe of the squad who look likely to have not booked their place already? Even if he just went as a squad player then it would be great for him. firstr off is there an additional place to fill....was beckham a cert ? secondly does that mean there was one space for milner/wright philips/walcott/lennon ?.