Teasy

But they weren't bidding £15 million, or even close. If a manager says we'll sell for £15 million and a club keep making bids well short of that how's that any different then bidding for a player who isn't available? Bit of a co-incidence as well isn't it, that Ramos (or more accurately Commolli) and Redknapp both wanted Downing.

Spurs who cried when Man Utd tried to tap Berbatov up when they spent all summer and subsequently all winter trying to unsettle players. Horrible club, horrible fans, horrible manager, horrible players, horrible chairman. Hope they go down on the last day following a Jenas own goal and a Dawson red card. good point. f*** them. This is bullshit. Man Utd unsettled Carrick and Berbatov in recent times, and the pursuit of them both was over a lengthy period, where they didnt put any sort of offers until the last minute. Berbatov - didnt he threaten to not play? Spurs never publicly pursuit anyone until Harry came and even then they would bid for a player when they made their interest known. When the club said no, that was the end of it. That is just one man, hardly Tottenham as a whole. Man Utd they don't stop, they are sly with transfer top to bottom. You ever heard of Stewart Downing? They bid and Boro reject - he spoke about the fact he wanted Downing and their chairman had made a bid. Once it was rejected moved onto over targets never spoke of him again. Like i say it all comes out of Harry - it's hardly an excuse to hate the club because a single guy talks about other clubs' players. Point still stands though Man Utd are far, far worse. Man they've been after Downing for well over a year. They made bids last year and each one was rejected, before more speculation, more unsettling comments and then another bid. Then in January they went for him again, made a bid which was rejected and made another bid. They finally took no for an answer over a year after they first went for him.

Spurs who cried when Man Utd tried to tap Berbatov up when they spent all summer and subsequently all winter trying to unsettle players. Horrible club, horrible fans, horrible manager, horrible players, horrible chairman. Hope they go down on the last day following a Jenas own goal and a Dawson red card. good point. f*** them. This is bullshit. Man Utd unsettled Carrick and Berbatov in recent times, and the pursuit of them both was over a lengthy period, where they didnt put any sort of offers until the last minute. Berbatov - didnt he threaten to not play? Spurs never publicly pursuit anyone until Harry came and even then they would bid for a player when they made their interest known. When the club said no, that was the end of it. That is just one man, hardly Tottenham as a whole. Man Utd they don't stop, they are sly with transfer top to bottom. You ever heard of Stewart Downing?

Not so sure about that anymore. The Bolton thing was a sign. palacios was fuckin immense yesterday, unless he gets injured i think they'll slowly start to pull it together with him chopping people up properly instead of fairy's like jenas and zokora keane will bag some goals as well...i WANT them to go down but they won't, they just won't Will you change your mind if they don't win a league game in March? i will if they don't win a league game by may! you looked at their fixtures? i haven't being honest, why do you mention march? hard month for them? remember 4/5 wins will get them to safety (probably), can't see how they won't beat 5 teams...unless they've played most of the shit already, but they can't have played it all They don't have a pretty run in like. I have and I see maybe one win for them in March and that's if Boro play shite. just looked, they've got 4 home games they'll win imo (inc us) and they'll scrape a draw or two on the road plus there's always a surprise or two, see where you're coming from though - it might be very close for them They'll beat us will they? Why's that then?

World beaters? We aren't no but we're still better then the Spuds. Despite having the worst injury record in the league and despite all the players they just bought which were, once again, supposed to revive their fortunes.

Not doubting what money has been put in, I just wanted to know for myself what the finances are actually like especially cash flow. I'll be very interested if you can find out what these operating costs cover because £34 million running SJP, training grounds, catering and renting warehouses seems massively expensive

The player sales I looked at were anyone bought and sold fron June 2007 until August 2008. Now why did I look up till August 2008 you say, well I was told by people on here that the likes of James Milners transfer was included in these accounts, despite happening in late August. Also I got the £113 million number from your post: Looking back at it I assume you didn't include the £34 million operating cost in the total out number for some reason, and I didn't catch it. Which brings me to a question, how the fuck are we spending £34 million on operating costs?! Surely that's not normal??

Surely not having to pay a further £8 million in interest payments, no further £5 million payments to ex managers and making an £8-£10 million profit in the transfer market would make things significantly better. I mean assuming Keegan isn't going to win some kind of case against Newcastle, which I don't see happening.

I'm sure Keegan leaving had a big impact on the players but I just don't think Hughton was capable of bringing them out of it. Like you say if Kinnear hadn't come in we'd probably have kept losing for at least a while longer. Either way I certainly wouldn't want Kinnear to go leaving Hughton in charge like mrmojorisin75 is wishing for. To me that's an amazing risk to take, there's nothing what so ever to say that Hughton would do any better, in fact there's some evidence to say he'd do worse. Better the devil you know in my opinion, at least under Kinnear we've gone from second bottom on 5 points to 13th on 27 points despite having the worst injuries in the league. I'm no big fan of Kinnear but some people go overboard IMO.

I don't rate him highly no, its just a fact that his record is infinitely better then Hughton. Hughton lost every game when he was in charge, we were hopeless and even lost to the Spuds. If that had continued we'd be relegated by now. Kinnear might not be good, but at least we've gained points under him and moved out of the bottom three. You should remember that we were 2nd bottom when he arrived with far less injuries then we have now).

Keegan's compensation demands are allegedly higher than Fat Sams. Yeah that had crossed my mind. But at the current time they haven't been paid and may never be paid. Lets hope so anyway.

Ignore that bit - profit is stated before sales/purchases of players I know it won't be included in the normal profit/loss, because they use amortisation for that kind of thing. I meant in terms of cash flow. It just seems that we should have brought more money into the club then we've spent in the coming accounts. Considering some of the one off costs that won't be there any more and the lesser money spent on players/more money brought in on players this time around.

It certainly suggests a cash flow problem at the moment I suppose. But not necessarily that we can't cover the costs long term. Anyway the accounts from June 2008 to 2009 will be interesting. I mean without having to pay Allardyce off and without the £8 million interest payment we really should be in profit before amortisation. Especially with the profit made in the transfer market.

Are you suggest that we're living hand to mouth paying the players wages? Otherwise I'm not sure what you're getting at. If that is what you're saying then how come we sold players for around £40 million in the period covered by these accounts yet only received £8 million in actual hard cash? Those transfer fee's must be getting paid in pretty moderate to small instalments considering we're desperate for cash from creditors. Also what's happened to the yearly revenue? Which in these accounts is nearly £100 million, almost 50% higher then our wage bill.

You want to know how bad a situation we are in financially. If the £6 million fee is correct for Given and if it's true we're being paid over 4 years then the first payment covers just over a weeks wages at the club. If the fee for N'Zogbia is correct and we're also getting that money over 4 years and it's going on wages then all of the income from the last window will be gone in less than another two weeks. If we did need to sell players to cover our wage bill the entire squad would have to be sold and all fee's demanded up front The wage bill really is disgusting! Luckily revenue is still more then enough to cover wages and the removal of Owen, Viduka and Geremi will help quite a lot, saving us around £12 million a year.

But if he didn't return who would manage us? Hughton?, he lost 5 games straight when he took over. Fair enough we won yesterday but that team was picked and trained by Kinnear. The man's not the best, but surely you realise his record is infinitely better then Hughton's. Had he not come in and we'd continued the way we were going we'd already be mathematically relegated.

see what it's like after man u, liverpool, chelski and arsenal...the goal difference that is best we'll get from those games is a point, if we're lucky, league might look very difference by then A lot of the teams around us also have those same teams left to play. Also you might be surprised at just how much we might have to lose to drop down into the bottom three. Six games ago we were 12th in the league but only two points above the bottom three teams. We then went on a run of five games without a win which gained us only two points, yet we were still 15th and one point above the bottom three. Now our first win in 7 and we're in a better position then we were before the poor run, four points clear.

We're not in that drastic a situation. We spent £6 million more then we brought back in. £8 million was spent on interest payments that now aren't necessary and £5 million was paid to Allardyce when we sacked him. We also have a lot of money owed to us from transfers. I'd be very surprised if next years accounts don't have us well into profit before amortisation. Our real problem is the wage bill, we still make much more money then the massive majority of Premiership clubs, but our wage bill is insane. Its not even about not being able to afford porches and mansions, we're struggling along every year trying to afford small countries.

Forgot about this. The money we paid out for players compared to what we brought in is a little bit odd. We spent about £45 million on players and sold players for nearly £40 million in the period covered by these accounts. Yet while we paid out £27 million we only brought in £8 million. Obviously transfer fee's are usually paid in instalments and even past transfers will be included in the actual paid out and brought in numbers. However I just find the difference between them strange. Anyway to the cash flow. So basically it was £113 million spent by the club on wages, loan interest, buying players and operating costs and £107 brought back in from club revenue and player sales. While Ashley took on £70 million of the club debt interest free. So the actual short fall in club cash flow was £6 million.

At least they've got an excuse- a man sent off and one of their top players got injured early doors. Spurs are totally clueless despite all that AND having home advantage. Arsenal are missing so many first team players it is untrue. They're missing 4 first team players. The Spuds are missing just as many, with 9 Premiership sides missing more, including us right at the top of the injury league with 9 (6 first teamers). Spuds could not put a stronger side out tbh Arsenal with Arshavin, Fabregas, Eduardo, Walcott and Diaby would improve greatly Defoe and King would definitely start if fit and would definitely improve the Spuds. O'hara and Hutton are also first teamers if not definite starters, Gomes is the only one out injured who definitely wouldn't start. I didn't think about Arshavin by the way considering he's not really injured and in fact could have played at least some part of the game. He's just not match fit and likely Wenger didn't think a derby would be the right time to make his debut anyway.

At least they've got an excuse- a man sent off and one of their top players got injured early doors. Spurs are totally clueless despite all that AND having home advantage. Arsenal are missing so many first team players it is untrue. They're only missing 4 first team players. The Spuds are missing just as many, we're missing nearly twice that number and in fact most Premiership teams are missing more players then Arsenal.

What a pile of shit!!

Modric

Arsenal look clueless.

It was the right decision to send Eboue off. However that was the worst case of Hollywood refereeing I've seen for a long time. Totally engineered to get his name in the papers. First he races up to Eboue as if to send him off then turns and books Modric instead. Then he waits ages giving no indication he'll do anything to Eboue before racing up to him and sending him off