80

They played us like an experienced European team in my view. Not a great one, but a wily one. We set up like Ricky Hatton when we should have been Floyd Mayweather. I don't think we can say we're clearly the better team when we're struggling so much to put goals away right now. There's loads we're doing right, but tonight they came here needing a win more than us. A draw was not acceptable for Liverpool. For a one off, special occasion, we could have let them come onto us a bit more and hit them on the break with all 10 outfielders, greater stamina and the tie still 0-0. That would've really exploited their weak defence. Instead, we set out to smother them in relatively impotent blows high up the pitch, and they picked us off on the counter and should have had the game wrapped up before the night had really begun. The fact they didn't a) spoke well of us and b) spoke badly of them.

He's the player most responsible for getting us to the final via previous rounds. We wouldn't be there with most other keepers in goal. He was repeatedly left exposed tonight by our outfield and dropped into risky scenarios, he tries to rescue the situation, and you're bitching like a petulant girlfriend that needs ditching.

Yep, don't disagree with that. Delighted to hear no boos at the end.

I consider myself a loyalist, but I think that's stretching the defence a little bit. There's good and bad to take from it, and plenty to debate, but I think you can argue we were tactically naive today, and a few chickens came home to roost re: our ultra consistent approach to games.

Give your head a shake mate.

I've felt like this would be the case for a while. Weird how things turn out. Super keeper win on penalties, anyone?

I think there's an argument for doing something properly at the next home game instead to stop it getting lost in the mix.

Terrible news.

That fucking corrupt Portuguese ref.

With the modern emphasis on metrics and high IQ, complex interplays, the game has really moved in Iain Dowie's direction over the past decade. He should be considered a dark horse for any forward thinking club.

I can't believe people are sleeping on Howard Wilkinson. Had them winning the title. Well connected from his England days, and no compo owed to anyone for the hire as it stands.

I would actually be surprised if that were the case, and disappointed too. It wouldn't be good enough, and would help deliver defeat anyway.

Finally had a read through of the post match on here. Some people's hypotheses are fucking mad. No doubt, we're struggling at the moment. Lots of different factors. Hard to level any specific blame due to a) things I know we don't know, and b) the problems we are facing which are still ultimately rooted in Ashley. That said, personally I would have liked to have seen Isak and Wilson on the pitch together for a little while now. Our standard route to attacking success has been a busted flush since... Boxing Day? I think we need to offer a wholly new threat. Unfortunately, that's out of the question for who knows how long now...

Shit myself for a second expecting worse news. Hope he enjoys it.

I think there's also a question over how it would have gone with Shelvey if we'd forced him to stay. He means well enough, but he's not known for being super mature or wise. It's conceivable he'd have developed booboo face, set the wrong tone in the dressing room and taken away more than he added, especially if his personal habits slipped. One of our most valuable assets is having a club full of people who want to be here more than anywhere, we should try and hold onto that wherever possible.

Oh ho ho, think again mate

For the record - https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2023/feb/10/jonjo-shelvey-leaving-newcastle-was-hard-but-i-cant-say-i-regret-it "“He said he couldn’t let me go at first and then I sort of pleaded with him to let me go,” Shelvey says. “He said he would sleep on it but then he said he would only let me go if they could get one in. I said I needed to leave for a fresh start and put my points across, and the next day he pulled me, we had a little chat and he granted my wish. Eddie said he wouldn’t stand in the way of my happiness.”"

At the moment I feel like I could see anything between 5-0 and 0-5 on this one. So a draw, then... Hope the crowd is poisonous on the night.

I'd be doing cartwheels for that money.

Going by Howe's recent press conference, no chance of Ashby starting any time soon.

It's a joke, right?

Definitely, Keegan's contribution was miraculous, and you couldn't use the same word for Robson's time. To be blunt and ugly though, in terms of reputation, Robson's passing was also well timed, in terms of how he's thought of. Also, the dignity with which he handled his time after leaving here - even though he no longer worked here he was one of the increasingly few dignified things about the club for the following 5 years. That's part of why he's been sanctified, but that's just how humans make sense of the world. In contrast, and to be clear I don't blame him for this, Keegan pretty much disappeared after each time he left the club. Re: statues of him not having happened yet, it's the old phrase, he's lived too long. If something more tragic had happened, his reputation would be Busby Babe-esque. Thankfully he enjoys his retirement playing golf in Spain and what have you.

Don't really disagree with that. Especially as it can often be counter productive. Eddie has got the handing if the "how many years without a trophy?!" stuff spot on, and avoided it becoming a monkey on our back so far.

Re: flash in the pan, I'm talking from an outsider's perspective. Yes, it was only two years between Keegan and Robson, and yet we'd absolutely clattered down in that time, the board wasn't feeling wealthy post-floatation, and history was already starting to be rewritten about our 'natural place' etc. If Robson hadn't come, we could well have ended up with a different anti-Gullit who 'knew the area' like Brian Little. And we certainly wouldn't have remained one of the richest clubs in the world for long. They both had not massively long reigns, but combined (along with the hiccup) it made for 12 years of being a real domestic and European force that couldn't be denied despite the lack of trophies. I'm arguing each legacy has been strengthened by the other. Maybe I'm biased, but I strongly disagree about Everton and Leeds. Not about the size or potential of the clubs, but how evocative they are to outsiders. Everton especially suffers in the same way we'd be held back if we were Benwell FC. Ashley has hurt us massively, but it would be that much worse if the last time we did anything of note pre-him was 1996 rather than 2005, during which time there was such commercial growth in the game. Again, as I say, no dispute about Keegan's importance. It's just that it's so obvious to me it hardly needs me to add to the chorus. Without him, Robson probably wouldn't have come in 99 and wouldn't have been able to do what he did even if he had. But I find the rewriting of Robson as being a good hand for 3 years who happened to be local weird - particularly considering the abjectness of the board he was working for at the time.