Cronky

Just going by the 60 minute highlights on Sky - The Owen-Martins partnership looked just as crap in practice as it is in theory. If you're playing without a target man, surely one of the strikers has to be able to drop back a bit to link with the midfield. Today, that job fell to Owen, and predictably he failed to get involved. When Viduka came on, Owen could get further forward but of course we then lost the threat of Martins. Martins' reaction when he was subbed was a bit of a worry. Owen's status and all this anxiety about him re-signing means that there's bound to be suspicion in the minds of fans and players that the manager is afraid to upset him, either by dropping or subbing him. Bassong's a bit raw but he has the athleticism to recover when he makes mistakes and he does the main job of a CB very well ie he gets on the end of headers in his own penalty box. It looks like we've established our first choice centre back partnership.

You mean like Flamini? Point taken, if a player decides to see out his contract after lining up the club of his choice, there's not a lot a manager can do. What annoys me though about the Owen situation is the fuss that surrounds it. There's pressure on the Board to offer an inflated contract to a player who is already over-paid. Giving him the captaincy seemed more of an attempt to encourage commitment on Owen's part, rather than an acknowledgment of it. We seem to be acting like Owen not signing would be a disaster, which is a bad message and a distraction to the squad as a whole. We've already made the mistake of throwing money at a reluctant player in order to get him to sign, all on the false reasoning that he'd transform the fortunes of the side. Let's not repeat the error.

This issue really gets on my tits. I long for the day when this club is run along sensible, professional lines. Player approaches the last year of his contract, he's offered a new one, he doesn't sign, you sell him. I don't care who it is, that's the way to run things. Instead, we make him the captain. Can you imagine Ferguson or Wenger allowing one player to string us along like this?

Offering him a short-term contract sounds like trying to hedge your bets. You either have to give him a vote of confidence and make him a decent offer or let him go. I'd offer him a long-term contract. That doesn't mean that he has to play every week, or that you're abandoning any effort to bring someone else in. Realistically, Viduka is now neither use nor ornament, and Shola is the only target man we have.

The problem isn't Kinnear, who has done a decent job in the circumstances, and who seems to have the support of the players. The real problem is the underlying instability caused by Ashley's decision to sell, in order to quell the uproar on the streets. Nobody's position is really secure and long-term planning is always going to be difficult until that is sorted.

The players seem to have responded to the 'Respect' campaign, but the managers haven't. How they can expect the players to control themselves when they come out with these comments I don't know. I appreciate that a lot rides on the game for them, but if they can't cut out the childish whingeing they should send someone else out to do the interview.

The bit about his friendship with Bassong strikes true for me. I think if he was playing regularly, or at least getting the odd start now and then Zog would be very content here. If he's not being used then of course he's going to look for a move, I doubt it would be different for anyone else. If Michael Owen sits on the bench two games in a row stories of unrest start to appear, I'm not sure it's fair to single out Zog as being stroppy for this. It sounds like it's taken him 4 years to make a friend. This explains his sulky expression.

If Blackburn weren't willing to sell in August, they're certainly not going to half way through the season when they're in the relegation zone. Riise looks by far the likeliest bet of all the names mentioned. He's not brilliant but he's better than what we have at the moment, and that's reason enough.

The usual patter is that he only does it against the small teams and doesnt turn up on the big occasions.... I'm a bit surprised at these and other reactions. The title of 'best player in the world' is always just a matter of opinion. I wouldn't say that Ronaldo freezes on the big occasion, but he does struggle to make an impact against top teams, where he's denied time and space. Most of the time, Man U are better than their opponents, and particularly if they go ahead and gaps start to appear, Ronaldo will destroy them. In that sense, you could argue that he's the most valuable player in the Premiership, in that you get the same number of points for beating Stoke as for beating Chelsea, and with his powerful running, Ronaldo can really put a team that's on the back foot to the sword. In a close contest, where he's tightly marked, yes it's a different story. What I like about Messi is that his close control - even at full pace - is so good that any opposition struggles to contain him. He can create things from situations where most other players would just be happy to hang on to the ball. Even against Man U and Chelsea, it's felt like the best they can do is damage limitation.

Well I just did. I'd say the best player in the world is Messi.

Fergie paid about £13 million for Ronaldo, so he must have seen an exceptional talent there. I don't think he's at all surprised at how things have turned out. The one valid resemblance between Zoggy and Ronaldo is that they're both over-rated. Zoggy's an average player who gets mistaken for a good one. Ronaldo is a very good player who gets mistaken for the best player in the world.

idiots. Nah seriously....that's the first time I've heard about it. Earlier in the thread, a few people were saying that if Zoggy had been given the same coaching and consideration that Ronaldo had been given during his early, sticky times at Man U, things would have been very different for Zoggy. Not the best comparsion, I don't think, because they are not exactly equals in terms of innate talent. For me, the better comparison would be Ashley Cole, because I think Zoggy's ability would ultimately be best used as an attacking left back, and they aren't too dissimilar in their strengths. Cole struggled at first, but came good in the end. Even then, I think that attitude rather than coaching is the main difference.

With all the subs that are now allowed, I think managers are reluctant to risk injuries to first team players by putting them in the reserves. Except for when a senior player is coming back from injury and needs match fitness, they'll play it safe. I also think that with it being quite difficult for young players to get a chance at first team level, even as subs, giving them reserve team experience has become a bigger priority than before - certainly a bigger priority than giving an established player match practice. But I'd agree that there are drawbacks. Like you've cited, a player can get pitched into the first team who's not sharp enough. It also means that the quality of some reserve team football is more like the 'A' team level of a few years ago.

That statement of Kinnear's isn't the most convincing of denials, and in any case, it's pretty clear from it that he sees him as a squad member rather than a first team regular. That's what Zoggy wants - and that's fair enough at this point in his career.

http://www.journallive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/11/25/frenchman-could-find-exit-door-opens-soon-61634-22330045/ In any case, we need to start giving more first team experience to Lua Lua, who I think will turn out to be a much better player. Is he a left winger? He doesn't need to be when both Duff and Jonas can play on the left.

http://www.journallive.co.uk/nufc/newcastle-united-news/2008/11/25/frenchman-could-find-exit-door-opens-soon-61634-22330045/ In any case, we need to start giving more first team experience to Lua Lua, who I think will turn out to be a much better player.

So nothing fundamentally wrong with his game, all thing which can be worked on, Ronaldo had some similar problems in his first year but was given the environment and coaching to iron out those weaknesses. I see no reason why Zog cant solve these problems, hes eternally confident in his abilty and always looking to attack. i see it the other way around. technique etc can be worked on. nouse,finding and using space,picking the right,simple pass etc is not so easily taught. he has the raw ball skill type talent but is severly lacking in the other major areas. How do you explain Ronaldo's transformation from ball carrying antelope to the player he is today? With his decision making and less ball carrying and creativity. I see a lot of similarities between present day Zog and 18 year old Ronaldo. What areas do you think that Zog severly lacks in that cant be worked on to make him the player he could be? Assuming LW is his strongest position. experience. ronaldo learns from experience,n'zogbia doesn't. Exactly, because he hasn't had any. Over 100 games like Disclaimer: According to wiki Half of those before Duff arrived and those since include sub appearances, central midfield, left back, even right wing on occasions, back and forth from one to the other. Young players just don't develop like that. You can't tell me that the Charles N'Zogbia who skinned four mackem players in the derby before slotting home or the one who made Brad Friedel look like a total clown would have developed exactly the same (i.e. not at all) if we hadn't bought Duff. He's gone backwards and the club is to blame. Total and utter mismanagement. right enough. last thing we should do is buy players for positions in which we only have one player,an experienced versatile international at that. some times young starlets don't develop the way you'd think. this is one such case. Big clubs don't buy over-the-hill wasters to replace their young stars. That's why they develop and ours hasn't. Duff, for all his faults, shows the sort of qualities that I think Zoggy lacks. He works hard, he communicates with his team mates, he looks for the ball, he shows initiative and passion, he's positive and tries to shape the game. It all boils down to this sense in football that you need 11 leaders, because when you're on the ball it's down to you to dictate things. A new young player who's just been promoted to the first team usually struggles to do that, but then acquires that confidence. Zoggy still looks stuck on the starting blocks. I know you're going to say that it's no good being enthusiastic if you cock everything up, and I don't want to get into a debate about how good / bad Duff is. The point I'd like to make is that if Zoggy had Duff's attitude he'd be a lot better player. I've not seen any of those "qualities" in Damien Duff for one single second. He is the biggest reason for the on-field malaise at NUFC imo and has been since he got here. Initiative? Passion? Positivity? Damien Duff? Has the world gone stark staring mad? You really do have a thing about Duff. I mean, I've been a bit disappointed with him, but he can't be criticised for his attitude. He does work hard and get involved. He loses possession more than I'd like, but that's often because he's trying to do too much or force through passes that aren't on. The on-field malaise started two years before Duff's arrival, when we sunk from being a Champions League team to bottom half of the table strugglers. That's the rut that we still haven't got out of.

So nothing fundamentally wrong with his game, all thing which can be worked on, Ronaldo had some similar problems in his first year but was given the environment and coaching to iron out those weaknesses. I see no reason why Zog cant solve these problems, hes eternally confident in his abilty and always looking to attack. i see it the other way around. technique etc can be worked on. nouse,finding and using space,picking the right,simple pass etc is not so easily taught. he has the raw ball skill type talent but is severly lacking in the other major areas. How do you explain Ronaldo's transformation from ball carrying antelope to the player he is today? With his decision making and less ball carrying and creativity. I see a lot of similarities between present day Zog and 18 year old Ronaldo. What areas do you think that Zog severly lacks in that cant be worked on to make him the player he could be? Assuming LW is his strongest position. experience. ronaldo learns from experience,n'zogbia doesn't. Exactly, because he hasn't had any. Over 100 games like Disclaimer: According to wiki Half of those before Duff arrived and those since include sub appearances, central midfield, left back, even right wing on occasions, back and forth from one to the other. Young players just don't develop like that. You can't tell me that the Charles N'Zogbia who skinned four mackem players in the derby before slotting home or the one who made Brad Friedel look like a total clown would have developed exactly the same (i.e. not at all) if we hadn't bought Duff. He's gone backwards and the club is to blame. Total and utter mismanagement. right enough. last thing we should do is buy players for positions in which we only have one player,an experienced versatile international at that. some times young starlets don't develop the way you'd think. this is one such case. Big clubs don't buy over-the-hill wasters to replace their young stars. That's why they develop and ours hasn't. Duff, for all his faults, shows the sort of qualities that I think Zoggy lacks. He works hard, he communicates with his team mates, he looks for the ball, he shows initiative and passion, he's positive and tries to shape the game. It all boils down to this sense in football that you need 11 leaders, because when you're on the ball it's down to you to dictate things. A new young player who's just been promoted to the first team usually struggles to do that, but then acquires that confidence. Zoggy still looks stuck on the starting blocks. I know you're going to say that it's no good being enthusiastic if you cock everything up, and I don't want to get into a debate about how good / bad Duff is. The point I'd like to make is that if Zoggy had Duff's attitude he'd be a lot better player. And that problem isn't because he hasn't been given chances. He was promoted into the first team at quite a young age and has had plenty of time to make his mark.

I think Zoggy is more technically limited than many realise - he doesn't have a naturally good touch on the ball. He ought to have improved more (although he's not a Ronaldo in the making) and I think some of it is down to his personality. He just doesn't impose himself, and looks quite isolated within the team. He still has the demeanour of a teenager making his debut.

No not injured, he was on the bench at Chelsea. Thanks, I didn't realise that. He's only just back from injury, so Kinnear must rate him a bit if he's already got him on the bench.

I was a bit surprised that Lua Lua didn't feature. He's not injured again, is he? For me, he's the pick of the young players coming through. Sammy Ameobi showed some good footwork, but seemed to have the family trait of trying to beat one man too many.

Tavernier looked a skilful little player. Only just 17, so plenty of time to develop. It was the first time I'd seen Ranger. Strong, quick and confident. I can see what the fuss is about.

The difficulty is that good players aren't likely to sign on anything but a loan basis, in a situation where the owner and therefore the manager, might change any minute. If we're going to strengthen the team in January, both Ashley and Kinnear need to be on a long-term commitment. It's a by-product of the situation we're in.

Zoggy is good when he has time and space to run at a defence, and he also packs a decent shot. Trouble is, he's crap at everything else.

I thought Jonas looked more lively yesterday. He's still maybe not back up to that phenomenal level of fitness that he showed in the opening game, but he's getting there.