Cronky

I can't see that Barton has anything to explain. His words have done the team, the manager and the fans a lot of good, as we can see from the last two performances and the support. Keegan, not for the first time, is talking out of his arse.

Smith was just awesome. He was winning balls regularly against two centre backs who are normally dominant in the air. The formation would work a whole lot better if we could replace Martins with a player with any kind of ball control. The commentators seemed to be talking about the game that they were expecting to see, not the one out there tonight. Well done lads.

Smith has done unbelievably well, leading the line against two top-class centre backs. Barton has given the ball away a fair bit, trying to do things that aren't really on. He doesn't have to produce anything dramatic every time he gets possession. I'm enjoying the game.

Same here. The room where I was born is now some rich buggers kitchen. Make that 3 for the Princess Mary Massive Four ! Five! Raised elsewhere though.

It's a confusing picture. Previous players have spoken very highly of Sam and his methods, and have seemed very ready to re-join him eg Faye. There can't be a lot wrong with his training methods. This may all be a sign of progress. I've had the feeling that Sam has been caught in the middle between trying to please some of the players and imposing his own ideas. This 4-3-3 / 4-4-2 confusion may have been part of that. Sam may have now decided - quite rightly - that he has no choice but to stick with what he believes. Naturally, there's going to be a reaction to that on the part of some.

It sounded like he's come a long way from where he started, and deserves credit for that. I was a bit disappointed that he seems to think he's being picked on all the time though, like he's only doing the same as other people and it's being highlighted because of his reputation. He's not being entirely honest there. That's what he needs to face up to.

Exactly. We were the better side, but we lost because, for the 2nd and 3rd goals, our centre backs were too easily muscled away.

If Shearer takes over, the dressing room will be split down the middle.

I just don't believe this story. After all the talk of establishing continuity and sticking with a manager, they're surely not going to let it all hinge on whether we're beaten in one game against the league leaders. Mort needs to come out asap and deny this.

Got to say I think Joey Barton's words did the team - and perhaps the manager - a bit of good. They seemed to be out of their 'victim' mentality and playing with a lot more aggression. Plus the support sounded fantastic. We were unlucky because at 1-1 we were by far the more likely team to score. Martins' chance was a bit more difficult than it might first look, but we had other chances as well. We lost the last two goals because our centre backs aren't very strong. We also saw the real Joey Barton today. He was popping up everywhere, getting us on the front foot. Just needs to cut out the niggly fouls (ha ha some hope) Please, Sam, for the next few games, just stick with this formation and (injuries permitting) this side. We were starting to look like a team out there.

Our crowd seems to have a habit of picking on particular players and giving them a hard time no matter what's going on on the pitch. I couldn't believe it on Saturday when Smith was named man of the match and got booed. He'd given his all and he'd been the only player who looked remotely like causing the opposition a problem. I'll never forget an away game at Birmingham a couple of years ago when Shearer was injured and Shola gave a great performance, holding the ball up really well, and showing a real willingness to take responsibility. Ten minutes before the end, he miscontrols the ball and the supporters jeer him. It was embarrassing. You fear a little for Duff, who is a very, very good player. When he comes back, he's going to have to work his way back up to his best, but will the crowd give him a chance? A lot of people seem to have decided that he's crap and are only waiting to have it confirmed.

At least we've finally got a player who's come out and said exactly what he's thinking, instead of all this 'the-supporters-have-a-right-to-show-their-feelings' bit. You can bet his team-mates all feel the same way. Over the last few years, I've found myself questioning whether our kind of nervy, demanding support is a help or a hinderance to the team. It seems to have got steadily worse, and last Saturday was a low point. Hopefully it will be a turning point. You're more in need of support when you're playing badly, than when you're playing well. Yes, the team has its problems, but booing just makes things worse.

Do you envision N'Zogbia, or any young player for that matter, becoming "that good" despite being played out of position ina tactical abortion every single week? The chopping and changing isn't doing anyone any good. I just think the expectations that are placed specifically on Zoggy as someone who can turn things around for us are misplaced. I don't see him as a major talent. He can improve, but I worry that the praise that he's already received has gone to his head a bit, and he's already got a bit big for his boots. He also seems a bit immature and nervy and he has to overcome that as well to achieve his potential.

IMO the big flaw in Bez's argument is that Zoggy isn't actually that good. Not yet anyway.

The Sun have just invented that because they know that, given the opposition, we're likely to lose the next two games.

It's irritating that two years ago we could have got Anelka rather than Owen, for half the money, only Shepherd and Shearer wouldn't agree to it. Allegedly.

I thought both lists were really interesting. The world list turned out a bit better than I was expecting, given how badly statistics can warp things. The big losers for me are George Best, because his career at the top was so short and he never had a chance to achieve internationally with Northern Ireland, and Cruyff, who I would put at number one. Ajax were a minor club, and Dutch football was a bit of a joke until he came along. On the club list, I'd like to see people restricted to voting for players that they've actually seen. (How many of those Everton supporters saw Dixie Dean play?) If you then broke the votes down into the voters' age categories, the results would be quite interesting.

It's probably just made up from previous stories, and Owen seems quite a proud man who'd be very reluctant to join Wigan. BUT... he's very rooted in that area, particularly with his horses, and he may be tempted. I wouldn't rule it out. I'd definitely sell, if we had a replacement lined up. He doesn't fit in with the way Allardyce wants to play.

The article does raise the issue of whether a pedigree at club management level is necessary for the England job. They are very different roles, and over the years we've seen several managers who have been very successful at creating well run clubs (Revie, Robson, Taylor) flounder a bit when it comes to the national side. Keegan was the ultimate manager who really needed day to day involvement with players to have any impact. My feeling is that the national team manager can't do much about fitness or skills. The chief demand is that he picks the best possible team and is able to mould them into a sensible unit from the tactical point of view, in a short space of time. It needs a good thinker about the game, rather than someone who works by trial and error. He also has to be able to motivate players in a short space of time, because he can't develop relationships with them like a club manager. Shearer's comments are usually very perceptive. He's got the brains. I'd worry that he's too much of a conservative though - I'd prefer a foreign manager with some new ideas.

I think Mourinho is just indulging his favourite pastime of attention-seeking. I doubt if this is the job that he's looking for. The one thing that would bother me about Mouriniho is he gets a bit touchy when he's criticised. England managers need to have the hide of a rhino.

I doubt if it's Allardyce's personality or training methods that's the issue. Judging from what players have said about him in the past, those aren't weak areas. My hunch is that with all this chopping and changing, some players feel that they are being dropped unfairly. Milner, Given, Geremi and Martins spring to mind. Owen might also feel he's being asked to play a role that doesn't suit him and, as with Eriksson in the World Cup, he's reluctant to budge. Perhaps Allardyce won't assert himself with Owen, and the other players are seeing the gaffer make allowances for Owen while at the same time they are having to adjust for the sake of the team. Yeah, yeah, it's all speculation. Something's not right though, and I just get the feeling that the situation would be a lot simpler if Owen wasn't there.

At the moment, Allardyce is torn between playing the system that he prefers but which doesn't suit his strikers, or playing the system that suits his strikers but which he doesn't really believe in. I say we stick with him so that he can then bring in the players he needs. We can judge him then.

Amidst the crap, there are a couple of good points in the article. Firstly, there is a lack of pace about the team. The only two players who have genuine pace - Zoggy and Martins - aren't great technically and good sides can blot them out of games. Secondly, I think there is a problem between Allardyce and Owen. It's not a relationship that's destined to last. Allardyce's system doesn't really fit with a specialist finisher.

Which is why the attitude of the crowd was so destructive today. It's worrying, because there's something self-fulfilling about it. The players lose heart and the manager's job becomes even more difficult. We've just conceded 7 in two at home of course the fans are going to be pissed off. You'd expect the crowd to be pissed off when their team is taking a real beating like that. What I found disturbing though is that there's a real movement against Allardyce now and it doesn't take much to set it off. The booing of the substitutions was just stupid. Zoggy was having a terrible game. Really, really terrible. I can't recall him getting in a single cross or shot. I can't even remember him finding one of his own men with a pass. He was just losing the ball every time he got it, without looking like he was going to achieve anything. Milner at least will maintain his morale and try and make something happen. Emre also lost the ball a lot, although he did occasionally look good and confident in possession. But we saw the old problem of him wanting a playmaker role rather than getting forward. Because Butt plays defensively, they end up side by side and the man on the ball has no positive options. Same as happened with Parker. Emre also only seems to defend when he feels like it. Putting on Barton was fair enough. Putting on Carr was never going to change things, but the game was well and truly lost, Enrique looked tired, and you can understand that Sam wanted to get Carr back in first team action. The worst part was the booing when Smith was named man of the match. He wasn't brilliant, but there wasn't any other possible candidate that I could see. He worked hard and he was the only player who looked remotely like threatening the opposition goal. Every crowd has its favourites and its non-favourites, but the fans just seemed to be reacting according to these pre-conceived collective opinions that take root, and not to what was going on on the pitch.

In the pre-match interview, Allardyce really looked like a man on edge. Normally he's relaxed, but he was sweaty and a bit nervy. He knew he was fielding a shit defence against a good side, and he knew what was likely to happen. He also knew that he was going to get no sympathy. He looked like a condemned man. It's very difficult to inspire a team from that position. The big problem is that a lot of fans seem to think that we're a good team in disguise, and it would be much better if only the manager selected the right 'tactics', or this, that or the other player. That's crap. We're a mid-table side at best and when we're hit by injuries we're worse than that.