TRon

Jail him then. It's a criminal offence which has nothing to do with football. Banning a player from playing for 6 matches isn't a punishment to match the crime. It's punishing the club, not the player. we signed him knowing that he was due to be tried for that so it's our own fault that it is having an adverse effect on us. it is within the remit of football as shown by the Hartson precedent. Jail Allardyce then for a criminal lack of judgement.

But Dennis Wise has? Righto. I don't know, and neither do you, but Dennis Wise is part of the recruitment team and on board with whatever the recruitment strategy is. If KK didn't go along with it obviously there was going to be problems.

Anyway, systems and job descriptions aside, while I do sympathise with Keegan, I saw the new recruitment team as being a step forward. It's not too far off what Wenger does at Arsenal, the main difference being he obviously exercises more control on the final decision. But he's earned that trust by showing a vast knowledge of the market, which Keegan just hasn't got.

Actually this is one of the reasons why more clubs are going down the route of employing coaches instead of old style managers. it means that you DON'T need a squad overhaul every time a new manager comes along, as their job is to work with what they've - got by and large. I would say any players leaving were probably going to get shipped out anyway. Barton, Smith, possibly Owen and Duff, were all players that were ear-marked for the exit, regardless of who comes in or even if KK stayed. The players who are considered value for their wages will definitely be encouraged to stay.

and the fact that they are undeniably a bunch of London cun.. outsiders.

I can't see him working elsewhere. If he can walk out of this job twice, one which he loves, what chance of him sticking around at a place he doesn't? Only a crap club like Bolton or Hull will let him have his own way on everything, and he won't be interested in that sort of job.

I don't think Keegan is yesterday's man, he still has a lot going for him. He was the wrong choice for Ashley's vision of how to run a football club.

The club is broken The team is broken The fans are broken This will be one hell of a struggle this season. Talk about over-reaction. let's hope the players don't go out on the pitch with such a defeatist attitude.

I would like to stress again, that while I don't agree with those who believe Ashley has failed (although he has definitely made mistakes) I am all for a far richer billionaire taking over and ploughing massive funds into the 1st team squad. Anil Ambani is more than welcome to make a bid, although his group are again denying they are going to make one. the alternative of Ashley out and no one in I'm still not sure about.

This is why I still have some hope for this season. While there will be some older players on the floor through understandable loyalty to Keegan, there are others for who this is their dream and won't be able to wait to get out there.

Which top players are those then?

My theory is they switched his real list with a doctored one they prepared himself to make him look stupid. It might sound a bit conspiracy theory but hey, if we're throwing around baseless speculation why not

Agree with that almost word for word, although hopefully the season won't be written off just yet.

Rabble rousing bullshit which will do more harm than good.

I said in another thread yesterday, I am looking forward to seeing Xisco and Nacho play their first matches. I am concerned as to whether there is going to be a split camp in the team now between older players and new, also how the negative fan reaction will affect team morale in general. It will be a difficult period for whoever comes in as manager, but a win against Hull could see our season stay on course.

Yeah. It's not like keegan to aim for the stars is it?

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that. "Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want." "Bye." Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke. Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list). Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager. Can't be arsed to look it up but my sense is Ferguson usually spends shitloads on young AND established stars - you can do that when you're big 4. I'd call Rooney an established star for instance when Man Utd went for him but he was also young I agree you can do that if you are big 4.

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that. "Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want." "Bye." Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke. Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list). Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager. He didn't want to spend any money apparently. There's no way a Premiership club pulling in 52,000 people with no debt, increased tv money and three seasons worth of season ticket cash should be breaking even on transfers. Not saying don't get bargains, but if KK wanted to spend some money on players he thought would improve the squad, he should have been allowed - after all, he made it clear when he joined that he believed there was significant finance there. Ashley wouldn't have to put his hand in his own pocket, the club makes enough money. Funny how plenty folk last week were convinced he wanted average Premiership players and now the same people are convinced he wanted Thierry Henry. Again - one extreme to the other. Kevin Keegan's not fucking stupid. Won't argue with you on that one, we all thought KK was going to get plenty of money to spend. Colo was a big buy, and Modric would have blown away any doubts, but it didn't happen. So everyone will have their own theory won't they?

Never mind, at least he'll have the undying loyalty of Smith and Milner. i'd include Barton but he's probably have forgot about Keegan already.

shame on me, i've been sticking up for the cockney spivs.

I'd love to hear Alex Ferguson's take on that. "Sorry Alex, you're only the manager, we're not obliged to buy who you want." "Bye." Pretty sure he threatened to walk when they didn't want to buy Dwight Yorke. Ferguson's forte has always been building young sides and buying players before their transfer value has peaked. KK usually goes for established stars (the list in the Times might be bullshit, but it does sound like a Keegan list). Bottom line: I don't think Ashley wanted to spend the sort of money it would take to get the players Keegan wanted. In which case it was probably a mistake to make him manager.

Bilic: no chance, he's committed to Croatia till the WC. Shearer: no chance, after having enraged a city by falling out with one local hero, Ashley would be off his head to risk hiring another.

Apparently as in the papers? Apparently, as in a little nudge I've had this evening from someone who should have a decent insight. I see, I seem to remember you being well informed about things actually so I'll take your work for it. Who is the bottom one btw? Can't find him on google. Real Sociedad... So have they enquired about them already or is this their shortlist? I'm led to believe enquiries have been made, particularly with Marcelino Toral who was sounded out as early as the summer. It's starting to strike me that they only ever saw KK as an Avram-type stop gap which makes this whole thing even more disgraceful. If they'd wanted to shunt KK aside they'd have picked a nobody like Avram Grant, not a local hero. Let's be sensible.

I don't think there was a problem with Keegan's on field coaching and motivating. The conflict arose because KK wanted more say on transfer matters, and it's a fair point that he had little knowledge of emerging talent or the world transfer market. Deep down everyone knows that. Isn't that what scouts are for? Seems like, as usual on here, there's black and white and nothing in the middle. a) Keegan has players signed for him and likes it or b) Keegan has to have an in-depth knowledge of every player in the world and spend his spare days jetting off to watch a Bolivian second division game. Can't I have c) he's a normal manager who has scouts like every other manager in the world (apart from these really successful continental ones who keep getting their arses handed to them by English clubs with English systems)? For c) Keegan would have to be happy with what his scouts were reporting and recommending. If that was the case why would there have been a problem in the first place? Keegan wanted players from his own list to be bought, and i doubt they included Xisco, Jonas, Nacho whats-is-face etc. He was happy with them when he was getting to oversee the deals and not having them signed when he specifically does not want them. Is that so difficult to grasp? Keegan on Jonas: Aye he sounds gutted to have him. Again, we come back to a) or b) and no c) in the middle: just because KK didn't want players signed and sold behind his back doesn't NECESSARILY mean that he hates Jonas and Colo and wants to kick fuck out of the pair of them. Like you say, it's not black and white. I'm sure having SEEN Jonas KK was impressed. But it was Ashley's team who identified and closed Jonas' signature. Just because KK had a right to feel put out, doesn't mean NUFC were obliged to chase his targets.