TRon

Didn't Enrique play 90 mins against Arsenal?

So we fucked it up ourselves then. Good going Batman...

So would I.

Said it in another thread, but it's worth one of it's own. I wouldn't be surprised if Emre's sold in January which I don't particularly object to. He's not set the world on fire and is not quick enough or consistent enough to be considered irreplaceable. But for God's sake, surely he could take the place of either Butt, Geremi or Smith in midfield? We don't need all three in there scuffling and scrapping (fat lot of good it's done against Arsenal and City). Worth a go I think and will give us someone who can carry the ball forward from midfield. Bear in mind also that Barton is not going to start for a few weeks by the sound of it. You can make this a poll if you like mods.

The difference between Sam and Sven is clear. Sam HAD TO spend the summer re-building the defence, basically from scratch. All his efforts were spent at that end of the pitch. Sven, however, had a decent backbone with Dunne and Richards, and spent his transfer money on falir attacking players for the most part. I'm sure, come January or next Summer, we'll be in the market for a couple of pacey flair players. As much as people will have you believe that Man City and Newcastle were in the same boat this summer, they quite clearly weren't. Your points regarding Sam's tactics and formations being poor, how's that? The Derby game is the ONLY evidence of this. 1 game! I personally thought the tactics against City were spot on, and we did well first half, but it doesn't take a genius to see that we lack door-openers. I don't know about the tactics, but the team looked lop-sided to me. Was it really necessary to play Smith, Geremi AND Butt in the midfield? I would have preferred to see Emre in there instead of either Butt or Geremi. That would have at least give us an outlet through the middle. Enrique starting at LB and Zog moved forward and we'd look a lot less turgid in that midfield area, with plenty of defensive cover considering both Smith and Germi/Butt would still be there.

That's all pretty much spot on, except I'd go further and say the sale of Ferdinand and Woodgate were good business as well. I wouldn't say that about a lot of Shepherd's dealings but credit where it's due.

Results have always been most important, a poor display only matters in defeat. It's the same with draws, people are pissed off when you drop points after leading but are happy when you come back from behind. That's just it though, whether we are actually gtetting results is open to question. Like OML has said, we had a relatively easy start and we have dropped points at places we would expect a better return. Considering our dfensive approach I would have expected us to 'win ugly' at Derby and scrap City for an ugly draw. In the event we lost ugly both times. The ironic thing is, City played better, slicker football AND defended better as a unit.

Plus, it's handy having Oba as Owen's fitness can't be relied on, for now anyway.

I like Sam as a man and we need a leader with his stature at the club BUT...a couple of things worry me. Firstly, his insistence on playing so many like-minded midfielders which I have discussed elsewhere. Another thing which grates is his insistence on playing players where they aren't suited (Smith, N'Zogbia now Enrique is available). Also, we seem to be falling between two stools with the passing game and direct football. We don't have a CF which will alllow us to play Bolton style, so we seem to have abandoned that belatedly. But the midfield we are picking doesn't allow us to play a passing game so it's looking a bit confused at the minute. I don't buy the theory that we are still gelling, I think it's clearly a case of unbalanced line ups to play the way we are wanting.

Aye, which puts the defenders under pressure no matter who they are. I said last season that we needed forward players and more creativity to be a better team and I stand by that now. I also said last season that even with better defenders we would still concede goals if we do not have the ability to dictate games and if we do not have the creativity and strikers to offer a serious threat to the opposition. A lot of people didn't agree and probably still don't, but we have better defenders now and we are still looking dodgy. It's a team game and yes, we needed better defenders but we must have the ability to hurt the opposition, for them to know you can hurt them because that will be a factor in how they set out their own game plan. If you do not have that it will give them more freedom to have a go at us and that puts your defenders under pressure. No matter who those defenders are you will leak goals and look dodgy under this kind of pressure. We need to dictate the game more and take that pressure off the back four. We need better players in midfield and up front, we also need better tactics to get the most from those players. We needed that last season and we still need it now. We sold Dyer and Solano which were fair enough decisions, but others have pointed out that we now lack pace (Dyer) and invention (Solano) in those areas. Joey Barton isn't going to give us those attributes whatever his qualities. N'Zogbia moved to the left wing will help, but Milner slows the game down on the right. That's where we might struggle to stretch teams until January when we can put that right. And for god's sake stop playing Geremi and Butt in the same team.

Big Sam was absolutely right to get in the defenders that he did, this is something that has needed addressing for years now, I'm pretty sure that the investments will prove their worth given time. The point about stats though is close to home. Somethimes when I look at a side put out by Allardyce I wonder if he's putting someone in there because the numbers add up nicely. Geremi, Butt and Smith in theory must look impossible to play against for a creative player, but As Dr Spectrum put it so well, three defensive midfielders ended up chasing Elano's shadow all afternoon. City were slick and sharp, passing quickly and running at pace. We were plodding in comparison.

Nah, sometimes he has games where he literally gets everything wrong. in this case glass isn't half full, it's empty. it's all Martins fault then.. What? I'm just saying the truth. Some games, if he doesn't score he does fuck all else. Well he did create N'Zogbia's goal against West Ham but then that was probably just a lucky run, touch and cross.

If he's not ready then the squad building has been incomplete during the summer. Not only are we losing a left back, we are losing a left winger in Zog who is now playing at left back which becomes a double whammy.

Nah, sometimes he has games where he literally gets everything wrong. in this case glass isn't half full, it's empty. it's all Martins fault then..

i managed to get great goal and poor control in half way up the page,he did show fantastic control for his goal,that doesn't mean his control is largely iffy Well there's always the glass is half full view, I agree.

He has his faults, but I shudder to think what we would have looked like without him today. Only he and Zog offer any pace and penetration to a pedestrian looking team. The goal was sublime by the way. No doubt his critics will ignore that and point to his first touch being awful (so ironic considering how he took that goal) but there you are. Saved us from getting thumped 3-0 in any case.

We didn't play too badly in the first half, but City's pace and quick passing made us look like dinosaurs by the end. Sven won every battle with Allardyce today. Better, cuter football, and players used far more effectively in their positions. Milner was too slow, and N'Zogbia was played at LB which robbed us of the width needed to get much from Viduka. A triumph for Sven in an important battle. Another game for us where we got passed to death which isn't encouraging. Winning ugly is ok by me but losing ugly and watching other teams dance waltzes round us like Arsenal and City sricks in the craw.

Harsh, but rings true I'm afraid. Milner's got a good right foot, but his lack of pace allowed City to regroup too easily when he was in a psition to hit them on the break. He also has a bit of Ameobi's lack of ambition and self-belief and I'm starting to think he's playing at a level above his ability.

He did fairly poorly at Newcastle though in comparison. Didn't exactly pull up any trees at Celtic either afterwards. Mourinho on the other hand will undoubtedly go on to succeed again. Did anyone ever have that conviction about Dalglish when he left Newcastle?

Another way of looking at this would be "Owen's injured - thank God we've got someone as good as Oba who can come into the team!" In the circumstances he's not the worst deputy is he?

I won't be devastated if Viduka isn't fit although I rate him. With Ameobi out of contention, we could go with Smith and Martins up front, and they looked quite good against West Ham. They won't look as good if one of them is playing wide though, which is likely.

Champions League football on a regular basis.

Not sure about that - for the same reason he didn't get it last time round. England wouldn't get far playing football Bolton-style which is all we've got to go on at this moment. As for us, it depends what you mean by success. I am fairly confident he can get us into the top 6 because we are getting it right at the back for which Allardyce takes full credit. Plus we have enough quality throughout the side to get the necessary wins. Wheter we can kick on and get beyond the top six we'll have to wait and see. For that we will probably need more pace up front and on the right flank. I think we will make progress and that's not to be sniffed at considering our starting position.

There's nothing wrong with the post, just like there was nothing wrong with Parky's thread after the Derby match. It might well be that all the niggling faults will be rectified, but generally these posts are well thought out and put forward with some sense of reason, right or wrong. Beats the hell out of "****'s a c*nt, get rid of the little waster"

But that's my point. I never in a milion years expected us to outplay Arsenal with silky skill. I did expect us to send out a team which would stop them playing so fluently. Since this has always been Allardyce's ethos, it's the one thing I thought we would do well. And please, before anyone starts on about me getting after the manager, it's far too early days for anyone in their right mind to do that. I haven't seen the game, but personally speaking if I was aiming to frustrate the opposition, I wouldn't play two forwards in midfield. If ever there was a game where it was justifiable to play both Butt and Geremi, this was the one. In the event neither played.