TRon

Well you're a total hypocrite but every time you change your view you change your nick to avoid being labelled a hypocrite. Which makes you not just a hypocrite but a sneaky hypocrite at that . :color:

The situations aren't exactly identical though. Owen never really wanted to come here, we paid his wages for months while he was crocked, it stands to reason fans expected something in return. If Martins had spent most of his time here injured then jumped off his sick bed to activate a release clause I think people would be pretty pissed off to say the least.

From today's Guardian. Surprised that this wasn't settled in Austria, but looks like tomorrow will be D-day in any case. Allardyce has worked his magic with Owen, remains to be seen whether he can do the same with Martins.

Does anyone really need to read any more? Where is that trotter78 guy who was warning us about Sam's awful failings?

Gudjhonsen was allowed to leave Chelsea despite the fact that Drogba provided the pace up front that all top teams have. If we bring in Gudjohnsen with potential partners being Owen or Viduka, how do we hit teams on the counter-attack? When we last finished in CL positions, I seem to remember we won a lot of points away from home due to the speed of Dyer and Bellamy in particular. Gudjohnsen's a good player, but if Martins hasn't already decided to leave we'd be far better having the speed factor. Not to mention rockets in both feet.

Sadly this is typical of the Anti-Dyer lobby. Foam-flecked hatred which makes you wonder whether they can't present reasonable arguments for their case. arguments have been put, they've just been ignored 'cause you can't read them in rose tinted spectacles again though; his shooting is appalling, his crossing is appalling, his passing is appalling, his tackling is appalling, his positional sense is non-existent, his dribbling is only OK but is largely directionless, he has no isea how to utilise his pace in a game of professional football, he can't even spell "football brain", HE REFUSED TO PLAY FOR THE CLUB & BOBBY ROBSON that's it summed up in a nutshell and i haven't even mentioned his off the field exploits, numerous chances to turn it around, injury record, fighting on the pitch and so on....oh yes i have so there you have it friend, foam-flecked indeed but in no way untrue his shooting is appalling, No it isn't, he has scored some absolute blinders - not everyone can hit a dead ball like Shearer but that doesn't make their shooting 'appalling'. his crossing is appalling, He isn't a conventional winger though, he usually cuts in from wide and plays the ball low, something which Arsenal have done under Wenger for years, his passing is appalling, Is that why he used to play so many great one-twos with Solano when we finished 3rd under Robson? his tackling is appalling, He's no centre back it's true. his positional sense is non-existent, Must be why so many of our goals on the counter revolve around this fast breaking midfielder then. Stupid idiot doesn't realise he's in the wrong place obviously. his dribbling is only OK but is largely directionless, he has no isea how to utilise his pace in a game of professional football, not obvious to many, but dribbling at pace makes picking out team mates that much more difficult. He could always stop and take a look around for a bit I suppose. he can't even spell "football brain", HE REFUSED TO PLAY FOR THE CLUB & BOBBY ROBSON well at least he didn't stub a cigar into his eye. Look on the positives. His assist stats are s****, historically hos goals stats are s****. He offers little of substance, but does enough "running fast in a straight line" to fool some players. He's made himself a good living out of being a mediocre player built up to be top class, and for that he should be admired. But preferably whilst he's at another club. All the "Man Utd and Chelsea want him" s**** makes me snigger. If they did, they'd have him. But they don't, unfortunately. Re-posted for your benefit: I am not really interested in getting into a deep-heated debate about the need to get Dyer out of Newcastle. All I will say is this; managers tend to look at the bigger picture. For example, Alan Shearer I'm sure everyone will agree, is a much better centre forward that Dyer. But you wouldn't want two Alan Shearers as your 1st choice strikers. Most top managers will look at their players and assess what they bring to their squad. I am happy to let Sam Allardyce do that, and if he wants to get rid of Dyer, I will back him. If he feels that he adds something extra and he wants to make use of it, then he will probably have a good reason for it. Some fans won't see it but a manager who makes decisions to be popular with vocal critics, just like a Chairman who makes trophy signings wouldn't get my respect anyway.

I think the horrible realisation will eventually dawn on deluded Bolton fans when little Sammy Lee steers Bolton back towards the trapdoor to the Championship...

When the poll was raised about which player we thought might benefit from a change of manager, I said straight away N'Zogbia and Martins. Could be that both players are already committed to leaving, in which case there's nothing we can do. I agree with the article though, ability-wise for me, Zoggy has it all for a left-sided midfielder. There's not many players I'd rather play ahead of Duff but he's one of them.

Isn't LeazesMag still posting as InvictaToon? The tactic of "well I'm losing the debate on this one, so let's switch it to something completely irrelevant" seems a bit familiar. Apologies all round if either/or feel offended to be mentioned in the same breath.

What a ridiculous thing to say. You obviously missed his first season with us and in his second season he faltered - mainly because he didn't know whether he was an attacking or defensive midfielder, and that was down to Roeder's lack of tactical nous. In a nutshell, Parker was a brilliant signing and I'm furious he was replaced with a total scumbag of a character in Joey Barton. I don't think anybody really knows whether Parker's an attacking or defensive midfielder. Personally I'm not sure he does either job well enough to justify playing ahead of a specialist, so have no problem with him leaving for West Ham for £7m. Although we probably could have got £22m the way they are chucking money at everyone in a desperate attempt to prove they are big time.

Nice stats, but I I've seen both players for myself I don't need to look at a set of figures. Bellamy's a good player but for a striker he misses too many chances when he's just got the keeper to beat. His head down, hit and hope style isn't my idea of a forward. Gudjohnsen looks ice cool in front of goal. Might not have Bellamy's pace, but technically far better. Anyway, why would we want Bellamy when he have a far better option in Martins to do what he does?

Except Godjohnsen can finish.

I'm not using his achievements eight seasons ago, I'm saying that for the past eight seasons Bolton have done consistently well, especially the last few seasons in particular. So let me make this clear, I am not referring to his first few months, or his last few months, but his tenure in charge as a whole. Most neutral observers would probably argue that for the size of club and resources available, Bolton have consistently over-achieved under Sam Allardyce. Teams who have 'sussed' Bolton, quite a few of them probably need to suss how to muster a few more points instead IMO.

According to the Chron yesterday, Queudrue is well down the pecking order as far as signing LB's is concerned. He's an option, that's all.

I repeat. We finished seventh because we had a very good start to the season. Our form since January would have seen us relegated had it been mirrored in the first half of the season. Maybe it took other teams this long to suss out out tactics because outside the top four, the Premier League actually isn't very good. We played Arsenal at the Emirates towards the end of the season. They were 4th and we were 5th. A win would have seen us climb above them. They won 2-1 but it could have been 10-1 so one-sided was it. So you are using the latter part of last season as your yardstick, when Sam had already probably decided he'd had enough - rather than judge him over a long, successful, and loyal period of 8 yrs as Bolton manager. Interesting.

People are quick to comment that we will struggle now that Big Sam has left, but there was already a suggestion that other teams had sussed out his 'philosophy' long before he left. For example, our form since the turn of the year would have seen us relegated had we not had such a good start. We already have the players for a passing game, unless of course you think that players like Ivan Campo were taught to hoof the ball half the length of the pitch at Real Madrid! True we may struggle against the 'big' clubs but we won't be playing the top four every week will we? He was there 8 yrs and managed to challenge for Europe for a good few of those. If his philosophy was sussed, how come more teams with better resources kept finishing below Bolton?

Wanna bet? Sheffield Utd, Wimbledon of old, Watford...these are just a couple of teams that come to mind that wouldn't have entertained the thought of a Djorkieff or Okocha in their line up, let alone how to utilise them. Just out of interest, are you looking forward to Little Sammy Lee introducing more cultured, passing football or do you want him to try and follow Big Sam's footsteps? Sammy Lee has already signalled his intent to switch to a more cultured, passing game and for most BWFC supporters it will be a blessed relief! Sounds nice. My own view is that with Sam leaving and taking his entourage with him - and his philosophy by the sound of it - Bolton will sink back into obscurity pretty quickly. Playing cultured football makes a good soundbite but usually only the big clubs have the resources to do it effectively. If Bolton end up flirting with relegation under Little Sam's new philosophy, I wonder whether they will look back and think it wasn't so bad after all under Allardyce?

Congrats to Liverpool if they get £9m for him. We probably got half of that for the simple reason that a fat blob of lard had made Souness manager.

The SUN !!!! The Sun is light years ahead of other tabloids like The Mirror when it comes to accuracy over rumours. Typical of Wenger to try and negotiate a better price even thougfh the release fee is iron clad. Good test of Ashley's business acumen this. Can't see him letting a valuable asset go for less than it's worth. We have to be strong about this if this is true. If they insist on paying less than we should insist on taking one of their top players off them... If they insist on paying less, then we should insist they fuck off.

The SUN !!!! The Sun is light years ahead of other tabloids like The Mirror when it comes to accuracy over rumours. Typical of Wenger to try and negotiate a better price even thougfh the release fee is iron clad. Good test of Ashley's business acumen this. Can't see him letting a valuable asset go for less than it's worth.

So he's touting Owen's services.

If the Gudjonsen rumours have any truth in them I'd be slightly concerned about the lack of pace up front because that would probably mean that Martins is on his way out.

The agent can only be acting on his behalf. If he's acting out of his own interest only I'd think Owen would have distanced himself pretty quickly.

Wonder why his agent was allowed to publicise the £9m release clause then?