TRon

Just watching that goal again on the highlights, Lascelles actually is marking a different player, checks him and then tries to go up against the lad who scores, but because he's running backwards can't get up as effectively. Trippier is the one who's stood watching, but even he's out of position, Schar is the one who's been caught in no man's land after Almiron and Dummett are left for dead by a one-two. It's actually a great move by Watford, think it's a bit harsh to blame Lascelles in hindsight, he seems to have got left two on one.

One other thing which rankles with me slightly is Howe's reluctance to express disappointment with a performance. You don't have to name names, just watching Tuchel's interview, and he was saying that his forwards needed to step up, that there was nowhere to hide in a fight for the title. Conte has done similar when demanding more from his players, both have complained about the lack of quality in some areas. I get that you want to protect your players, but at some point you need to ask for more.

Agreed, but those points for the draws might be the difference between staying up and going down at the end of the season.

Disgree with this tbh, I think our attacking players all have fundamental flaws, they have had them since the first day they walked through the door. From Miggy and Joelinton with their inability to strike a ball, ASM with his rotten decision making and so on. We have one blue chip forward in Wilson and he stands out a mile. It's precisely the reason Rafa and Bruce went with a defence first policy. It's been refreshing to see Howe try and get us playing some football, but first and foremost you have to play to your strengths. If you want Shelvey in midfield you automatically have to sit back so that spaces aren't exploited all around him when he's stood static for 80% of the time. I don't get it, Keegan wasn't considered a tactical mastermind, but even he switch formations and dropped Owen into an AM role to get us playing effectively in his second stint at Newcastle.

Maybe you should give that a try, might make your views a bit more palatable rather than the one liner "He's taking us down" patter.

Also, what's the point of doing bleep tests if you are still going to rely on wheezing carthorses like Shelvey?

I wish that were true.

He didn't stumble upon Joelinton like, he was pointing out his technical abilities like good footwork under pressure even before he put him in midfield. By all means you can have a go at him if you feel he's getting things wrong, but you have to give him credit for what he's got right.

We did better against Norwich with 10 men tbf.

How hard is it to find someone who can close down the opposition and pick a simple pass? I reckon you could take someone out of the under 21 side who would make a better fist of it. We've already seen a CF make it look much easier.

Some better supply and more players around him. We know he's good in the air, but they defended against him pretty well tbh. There was only two threats up front, Max and him, and once they nullified them, they didn't really have to worry about anyone else, most of our players like standing back and watching.

He's not exactly pulling up trees like.

Sort of agree with you even though I don't want to say it. Horses for courses man, it's wisdom down the ages.

He tried hard, at least we can give him that. He's just not very good. He won a couple of tackles I think, that's two more than Shelvey.

The players don't need lifting, they need to be binned and replaced. There's no other way out of this unfortunately.

He was so much better than the rest bar Joelinton, it was embarrassing.

That's a fair assessment, he wasn't great, but I don't really see what else he could do, he's a finisher who gets on the end of stuff. There wasn't really much for him to attack today.

I still refuse to contemplate going down, although if we were relying on this squad, then I would throw in the towel right now. We must bring in the players who can actually play football, we have the money....make it happen.

Miggy would be a waste of time, you need someone who'll pick up the knockdowns and plant them in the net. Almiron would just spin round twice and then pass it to the full back. Willock would be the one, but not sure if he even wants to be here right now.

Hope we can find another half dozen or so before the window closes then.

Sick of saying this now, but seems no one else sees it that way. As long as you can spray the odd fancy pass, then you are a quality player, regardless of the fact the opposition are running rings round you for 90 mins.

Thanks for reminding us. It needed to be said.

I'm no coach but I just don't see how that works if you want a team to be pressing high. It just seems impossible. Joelinton won the ball about 7 times from the opposition by pressing them today, so whatever else you say about his performance today, you can say he had a positive impact from a tactical POV. I can barely recall Shelvey winning the ball once.

Been saying this since back in the days of us taking Man U cast offs like Butt, it absolutely enrages me when we buy midfielders who can't run.

Every game he starts is costing us points. Two more down the Swanee today, we can moan about clubs charging too much for a replacement, but this is the result of hesitating.