Mick

I'm sure he can answer questions without being so direct and he seems to go into some detail when answering them. We've had managers in the past who have been asked questions that they didn't want to answer and they didn't. How many times was Hughton asked about Carroll having a go at Taylor without actually answering them? Other than Souness, I can't remember a manager having so many goes at a player in public and it's not good for anybody that he does it. What he does and says in private and to the player is totally different. All he had to say in answer to the question is that he thought Obertan having pace was better at that time, or something like that.

Fereday and Carr were also s*** regardless of how they were classed. Exactly right, that's what I am saying. If you looked at Shola's CV you will also see it says "striker" on it. Just because we think they are rubbish doesn't mean that's not the position they play. If a player is poor then it doesn't matter what position he's playing in. Obertan may be a winger but he's been less effective in that position in more games than Ben Arfa has played. Because Obertan is a winger changes nothing, calling Shola a striker is the same.

It's shit from Pardew to keep having a go at Ben Arfa in the press while playing a largely ineffective Obertan and telling the fans to love Shola. I've got no problem with wanting more from any player, to keep singling Ben Arfa out is a character flaw and backs up him failing to play Tevez while at West Ham, he doesn't seem able to bring out the best of a flair player, very much like Souness. He seems to have standards for some players while not having the same standards for others.

Fereday and Carr were also shit regardless of how they were classed.

I wonder if the Mackems are doing a special deal this season on a half match ticket for the Derby?

I don't know why people are worrying anyway, he came to a mid table club who are pushing for Europe so other than CL football, we're offering him more than most clubs can. He's got as much of a chance to do something here as he has at most other clubs. He's settled here, the fans worship him and seems to be loving his football so he has no reason at this time to want anything more than he's getting. I'm sure he was living out of a hotel while playing for West Ham but has found a house here, he's settled in well and I can't see him wanting to go anywhere.

Briliant.

True, but it isn't as simple as that. Pardew has to consider the overall sum of the parts. Whether he's right or wrong is debatable, but it's not as simple as you're making out. And I love Ben Arfa. What does Obertan add to the sum of the parts? Don't tell me it's his pace because he hardly ever uses it during a game, I think I've seen a good turn of raw pace from him 4 or 5 times and it has ended up with him making 2 blocks and he's scored 1 goal. Far too often he'll beat his man then allow the opposition to catch him up and he'll end up hitting the ball at the defender. How many minutes of football will that work out per goal or per block? Nothing has come out about anything having happened regarding Ben Arfa in training or away from the club so it has to be down to football. Obertan lost a ball and chased it down and won it back on Sunday, that's nothing that Ben Arfa hasn't done. Ben Arfa loses the ball, that's nothing that Obertan hasn't done. The only thing we don't know about is if Ben Arfa is having any problems with his old injury in the cold weather which is possible but I'm sure that would have been mentioned if it was the case. I don't see how maybe Ben Arfa not keeping his shape in the team as being the problem because Obertan doesn't keep his shape either. So again, what does Obertan offer that makes him the player to pick? I'm not writing Obertan off because I think he has enough going for him to become a decent footballer, his biggest negative and probably the reason why he might not make it is his lack of an understanding as to how to play the game. He either doesn't understand the game or he has a mental block and can't think quickly enough because football doesn't come natural to him.

I love all the excuses made for the way Pardew is handling Ben Arfa . The facts speak for themselves, Ben Arfa has produced far more for us than Obertan has and he hasn't had the luxury of getting a run of games,

Aye, he'd sub him for Shola.

I'd have Enrique and N'Zogbia back.

Krul was always going to come good at some time, he just needs to sort his kicking out but to be fair to him, others have to try harder to get on the end of his kicks.

Apart from the goals and assists do you mean?

I'm not sure he did that well and that's why we brought Routledge in.

That doesn't work and we've seen it before.

Harsh but likely.

It's good to see Guthrie getting bigged up on MOTD.

I think the jury go out on Tuesday so it will depend on the speed of verdict.

Hopefully they'll lose saggy face on Tuesday.

In answer to the thread title, both.

Should that stop the others? Personally, I don't see why it should.

I'm not sure Rocker hates Pardew, I can only remember him sticking up for him.

I've just had a quick look and can't find anybody who thinks Cisse shouldn't have come on. Who are these people?

Today was no different to many games when we had Tiote and Cabaye, still, it was better than I expected when I saw the team and that was probably down to Best going off and Cisse coming on.