Offshore

He's an England international with a chequered fitness record, that's why other clubs have been reluctant to take him off our hands previously. I still think they'll think long and hard before offering more than we are. Fair points. But when Real Madrid were willing to let him go Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal didn't need a striker at that time, Liverpool did but for obvious reasons didn't want to have to buy him back at much more than they'd let him go for. We did, so we gazumped them, offered him a kings wage and he took it. There was no-one else in for him as this transfer predates a lot of the recent take-overs and extra Sky money (not 100% on the Sky money, but think its only just been massively increased in the last season or two). He' played the last 6 months or so injury-free, played well, looked sharp and scored goals - if we don't pay the going rate someone else will. Well what is the going rate, bearing in mind his best performances have been in midfield? When played up front he's looked pedestrian, and I'm not sure which club out there is going to pay him any more than we will. The question is - did we look a better team with him in it or not? (and he is/was played as a forward) I'd say yes, we're a big club and can afford top wages. Its only when we pay big fees and wages for underperformers does this crop up, there are a fair few ahead of Owen we should be getting rid and replace of first before him. Whatever the going rate is, it certainly isn't less than what we initially agreed to pay him in wages, he isn't in the twilight of his career, he isn't injuried and he is our only blue-chip player. We could offer him less money but he'd be mental to accept and he'd then probably see out his last year and leave for nowt. This would force us to have to pay big to get a replacement in this summer on top of paying Owen his last years wages too, which = false economy. He didn't play as a forward as we've known him to be in the past though, he played in the hole where his fantastic off the ball movement can find him space in the box while the centre backs had their hands full with Martins and Viduka. As a striker playing in a 4-4-2 he's been absolutely awful for us in every game since his knee went, the pace he's lost means it's easy for him to get marked out of the game when he's up against a centre back. One of the papers suggested we were looking to offer him £80,000 basic with him having the chance to make up the rest depending on how well he and the team plays, it's a good move for the club and they should negotiate all contracts like this in the future. I agree on all three points, but whether a player would accept a performance related pay, albeit with a not too shabby basic, is another matter.

He's an England international with a chequered fitness record, that's why other clubs have been reluctant to take him off our hands previously. I still think they'll think long and hard before offering more than we are. Fair points. But when Real Madrid were willing to let him go Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal didn't need a striker at that time, Liverpool did but for obvious reasons didn't want to have to buy him back at much more than they'd let him go for. We did, so we gazumped them, offered him a kings wage and he took it. There was no-one else in for him as this transfer predates a lot of the recent take-overs and extra Sky money (not 100% on the Sky money, but think its only just been massively increased in the last season or two). He' played the last 6 months or so injury-free, played well, looked sharp and scored goals - if we don't pay the going rate someone else will. Well what is the going rate, bearing in mind his best performances have been in midfield? When played up front he's looked pedestrian, and I'm not sure which club out there is going to pay him any more than we will. The question is - did we look a better team with him in it or not? (and he is/was played as a forward) I'd say yes, we're a big club and can afford top wages. Its only when we pay big fees and wages for underperformers does this crop up, there are a fair few ahead of Owen we should be getting rid and replace of first before him. Whatever the going rate is, it certainly isn't less than what we initially agreed to pay him in wages , he isn't in the twilight of his career, he isn't injuried and he is our only blue-chip player. We could offer him less money but he'd be mental to accept and he'd then probably see out his last year and leave for nowt. This would force us to have to pay big to get a replacement in this summer on top of paying Owen his last years wages too, which = false economy. We'll be paying his wages regardless until leaves in the summer unless he quits or signs for someone else before then. We'll also need to sign someone else in case he's injured, that's what having a squad is all about. How did you work that out? Has he improved in value since then? Nope he hasn't improved in value, but neither has he depreciated much either, other than he's only got one year left on a contract so in theory 'if' we decided to sell we wouldn't get as much as if he was under a longer contract. As an aside, we paid too much in the first place, but thats a diff topic - we're talking about his wages. His wages - what I meant was that nobody would accept a lesser wage to do the same job - would you if you thought you were still as capable as the day you first walked into that work? If Owen signs and stays then of course we'll have to sign others, but not a direct replacement for him.

He's an England international with a chequered fitness record, that's why other clubs have been reluctant to take him off our hands previously. I still think they'll think long and hard before offering more than we are. Fair points. But when Real Madrid were willing to let him go Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal didn't need a striker at that time, Liverpool did but for obvious reasons didn't want to have to buy him back at much more than they'd let him go for. We did, so we gazumped them, offered him a kings wage and he took it. There was no-one else in for him as this transfer predates a lot of the recent take-overs and extra Sky money (not 100% on the Sky money, but think its only just been massively increased in the last season or two). He' played the last 6 months or so injury-free, played well, looked sharp and scored goals - if we don't pay the going rate someone else will. Well what is the going rate, bearing in mind his best performances have been in midfield? When played up front he's looked pedestrian, and I'm not sure which club out there is going to pay him any more than we will. The question is - did we look a better team with him in it or not? (and he is/was played as a forward) I'd say yes, we're a big club and can afford top wages. Its only when we pay big fees and wages for underperformers does this crop up, there are a fair few ahead of Owen we should be getting rid and replace of first before him. Whatever the going rate is, it certainly isn't less than what we initially agreed to pay him in wages, he isn't in the twilight of his career, he isn't injuried and he is our only blue-chip player. We could offer him less money but he'd be mental to accept and he'd then probably see out his last year and leave for nowt. This would force us to have to pay big to get a replacement in this summer on top of paying Owen his last years wages too, which = false economy.

Sky did the same for me a few years ago for me when I called to cancel. Got 25% off for a year.

He's an England international with a chequered fitness record, that's why other clubs have been reluctant to take him off our hands previously. I still think they'll think long and hard before offering more than we are. Fair points. But when Real Madrid were willing to let him go Man Utd, Chelsea and Arsenal didn't need a striker at that time, Liverpool did but for obvious reasons didn't want to have to buy him back at much more than they'd let him go for. We did, so we gazumped them, offered him a kings wage and he took it. There was no-one else in for him as this transfer predates a lot of the recent take-overs and extra Sky money (not 100% on the Sky money, but think its only just been massively increased in the last season or two). He' played the last 6 months or so injury-free, played well, looked sharp and scored goals - if we don't pay the going rate someone else will.

Unless you can offer something no-one else can, ie champs league games or a team already challenging for the title etc, then you have to at an absolute minimum pay the going rate, and for an England international still with many years in front of him (in theory anyway) then thats what we'll have to do or he'll go elsewhere.

Benetiz must obviously see him as a step up in midfield otherwise he wouldn't be allowing Gerrard to openly tap him up, while allowing Alonso to sort out a move. If he's 29 (haven't checked) and presuming he keeps himself fit (I don't think he's got that much of a bad injury record) then he's got a minimum of at least 2 years still as a top player, and thats me being very pessimistic. I don't think Benetiz has the time left to basically finish fourth every year, while for other teams it would be a cracking achievement, for Liverpool its not - whether thats them having unrealistic aims is another subject. So he has to challenge for the title and the only way to do that is get the best players he can in now regardless of their age. Their midfield of Gerrard, Barry and Macscherano would be imo a very strong and dynamic centre to their team, keep Torres fit and I could see them getting closer to the top next season.

To be fair, they make us (or anyone) look like Lazarus utd...

At last someone quoting alternatives. Bent, I'm not so sure about, got to say. He can look awful sometimes, but I guess every player can, I haven't seen the game but from what's been said Ashton most certainly did against T&T. Crouch, maybe, I think he could be a success, think he'll end up at Villa though in the Barry deal. Bent - Good at Charlton, got a big move but not many games. Although the little I did see of him he still looks a canny player and seems to have a bit of pace. Crouch - Big, gangly, not that great a touch for a premiership player but scores goals when played. Would do a canny job for us. Ashton - Still getting over a bad injury, hard to say if he's injury prone or was just unlucky to be at West Ham who are the unluckiest team in regards to players getting injuried. Again, a canny player, if fully over his injury he'd do a good job for us, but I reckon any potential buyers will, unless its getting to the end of the transfer window and are getting desperate, wait another season to see how he's fairing. All three would fit in with playing the centre role in a 4-3-3 Not the most exciting list tbh but probably the best from the premiership we can expect given our status at this time.

My pecking order of strikers in the EPL that 'could' be available from the pool that we could reasonably attract from.....Bent, Crouch then Ashton.

Saving the great white hope Joe Hart's skin? Thought Jagielka did ok, not going to get picked ahead of the obvious ones if fit when it comes to qualifiers the but probably a safe squad member who'll not start crying because he doesn't get a start........

Don't have the patience to do these fantasy team type things, but on a tenuous note drew Germany out of the hat in our Euro sweep.

Could and should have had more from him during his time here given that he was the only 'creative' midfielder we have/had since god knows how long. No axe to grind with him, he's just another one brought in with great hope and leaves with a pocket full of cash for not too much in return.

The EPL is only the 'best league in the world' because Sky, the main broadcaster and backer of the league keeps on telling us it is, outside the teams that qualify for the champs league no-one probably gives a real toss about the rest. If this could be done, allowing for EU law etc, i'm for it.

Stay mainly using 4-3-3 next season for me. Back to 4-4-2 depending on opposition and injury status. The squad would only need about 3 new better players to push on, 4-4-2 will probably require a wholesale change from midfield up to do that.

Its only a big four now as thats how many champion league places are available. If Platini gets his wish to make the champions league less of a closed shop to the big leagues (tv revenue led) then we'll go down to 3 places so we'll end up with a big 3. While Liverpool would be the most obvious team to break into that top 3, it would be interesting to see how a season or two outside the champions league would affect their team spending.

I wouldn't even consider Woodgate as one we really 'missed' out on in all fairness, don't think coming back here has ever been on his mind. All his 'keep a peg in the dressing room for me' bollocks is just that, no different to kissing the badge then doing one at the end of a season

I would say that 'IF' Keegan had been in charge from the start of the season still with the same players as he's going to end it with we'd be futher up the table than 12th, not in the top 6 but higher than we are now. For one, i'd bet we'd have had 6 points off Derby to start with. Man City were relatively gash last season, but within one summer have jumped into the 'possible clubs to challenge' bracket. We're going to have to wait and see who he/they bring in during the summer and how that works before we know how far away we're from the better teams like Liverpool. Also, just to throw this in the mix, sometimes a season can be made or bust if one or two of your top players get injured. If Torres had (and I wouldn't wish it on anyone) broken his leg 2 months into the season I don't think they would be where they are now, similarly if West Ham's treatment table wasn't littered with most of their better players (Bellemy/Dyer (when fit)/etc) I think they'd be higher up that now. All i'm getting at with this is sometimes, just sometimes things can happen which you don't have any control over but makes a huge difference to where it puts you.

So you think it's a good idea for our manager to be declaring that we see ourselves as a mid-table club at best for the foreseeable future? Again, he may be right with his comments (I don't think he is, btw) but even if he is what good does it do to come out with this? He didn't say he wanted to be a mid-table club, he wants to win the '2nd' league - 5th. He still should have tempered down abit what he said though.

Quite even 1st half but eventually beaten by a team of better players, no shame in that.

Billy Hill's has us as 4/1 to win.....think I may just have some of that.

Oh good...what a non-footballing brain! Everybody complains about teams like Germany (in the past) and Italy, but would welcome defensive football if we had a chance to reach a final. You must have loved Big Sam then... 'Big Sam' didnt reach a final with you lot though. He didn't say we did....re-read the post again

"I hate their club, the people, their city and everything they stand for. Everything thats wrong with modern England IMO." Jesus wept!!!!! Well, if you're content with the bridges shopping centre, and the largest collection of Walter Wall's carpets/Tony's tiles (shops with annoying adverts on Metro radio) within a 5 mile radius, and not to mention Europe's capital of culture, Hendon, then don't ever f****** step foot in our city, "JimmyMonty73". It's the oddest football forum I have ever seen that. I was looking at it the other day to see what they thought their chances where and couldn't actually find an article discussing how they thought the Derby would go. There is like 200 threads created each minute on useless bollocks. Aye, definitely, one speaks sense, then another tit comes along and mocks him for it. He's a mag who posts on there........

Happy with the performance and result. Portsmouth have the best defense we've played against on our run and we gave them plenty to think about. Our midfield did excellently today, crowded them out when need be and bar some ropey passing (which was the same for both teams - pitch perhaps?) thought all three of them did their jobs well. No real drama's at the back either. All in all another good display, not brilliant, but good all the same.

Nonsense. I presume you're only basing this on the last 4 games as if its some sort of KK/MO great moment of clarity (as recovering alcoholics may say) that he's playing a deeper role in a front three so can't play any other way. He's played and excelled in all sorts of formations for his previous clubs and England as he's given the chances to score. He's a striker, and a quality one at that and its only been these last few games that we've started to look like a footballing team again that actually creates chances to win the game instead of setting out not to lose first. As was said earlier in this thread, he 'IS' our best player, he 'IS' our major draw and he 'IS' at last doing the business on the field. To sell him just because we could is a backwards step, one we would end up paying for alot more in the end than we'd get for him. note to self.....type faster.