Martin Lol

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants. I think several notches would be an appropriate description though I, like you, have no great biased opinion, just describing it as how we see it. The system employed by SA at Bolton was designed to do a job, basically, to keep them up. As he succeeded in that respect and over time the system evolved but not by too great a degree. I would expect that system to have its limit where it can no longer be effective if the long term goal is to continue to take the club forward. Moving to Newcastle and having the current squad, I think SA has already gone beyond the effectiveness of the old system. I did say it was my gut feeling that Allardyce was out of his depth, time may prove me wrong, but Allardyce said he needed 5 years to take Newcastle where he wants them to be and, imho, very few managers get 5 years nowadays, especially one who was not the preferred choice of the current owner. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Allardyce gone in the summer. I totally see where you're coming from. Allardyce did a hell of a lot better than just avoiding relegation at Bolton, though, getting them into Europe more often than not in the last few seasons. I think it's too early to say whether Bolton/Allardyce couldn't go further because of Allardyce's managerial limits or Bolton's financial limits. Obviously, it's too early to tell if Ashley will chop and change like the previous regime did, but it'd be a shame to see Allardyce booted out after just one season, without getting the chance to build his own team, unless he makes a complete cock-up of it. He's definitely a massive step up from Roeder. It would be a shame and very unfair on Sam. I am disappointed though that Allardyce only seems to think there's one way to play football. When he arrived I saw him as a manager deserving of better resources that would allow him to compete at the top level. Now, having seen him put out teams outplayed by championship level sides, there is a nagging fear that he is more suited to managing small clubs who can ruffle the big boys. Your first highlighted sentence echoes my thoughts upon his appointment. The second sentence echoes my feelings now.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants. I think several notches would be an appropriate description though I, like you, have no great biased opinion, just describing it as how we see it. The system employed by SA at Bolton was designed to do a job, basically, to keep them up. As he succeeded in that respect and over time the system evolved but not by too great a degree. I would expect that system to have its limit where it can no longer be effective if the long term goal is to continue to take the club forward. Moving to Newcastle and having the current squad, I think SA has already gone beyond the effectiveness of the old system. I did say it was my gut feeling that Allardyce was out of his depth, time may prove me wrong, but Allardyce said he needed 5 years to take Newcastle where he wants them to be and, imho, very few managers get 5 years nowadays, especially one who was not the preferred choice of the current owner. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Allardyce gone in the summer. I totally see where you're coming from. Allardyce did a hell of a lot better than just avoiding relegation at Bolton, though, getting them into Europe more often than not in the last few seasons. I think it's too early to say whether Bolton/Allardyce couldn't go further because of Allardyce's managerial limits or Bolton's financial limits. Obviously, it's too early to tell if Ashley will chop and change like the previous regime did, but it'd be a shame to see Allardyce booted out after just one season, without getting the chance to build his own team, unless he makes a complete cock-up of it. He's definitely a massive step up from Roeder. This season is only Bolton's second season in European competition. After the first couple of seasons up in the premiership I agree that the aim was progressively higher than just avoiding relegation. I'm pretty certain I've said this here in other threads but friends of Ashley's best mate say that Ashley wants to be entertained as well as being successful and if that comes with a price so be it. My guess would be a top quality coach/manager coming in the summer because I can't envisage there being enough entertainment being produced to make Ashley happy, even if Newcastle are moderately successful with that style of play.

1. A Premier League Match 2. A Championship Match 3. A League One Match 4. A League Two Match 5. A Conference Match 6. A FA Cup Match 7. A FA Cup Semi-Final 8. A FA Cup Final 9. A League Cup Match 10. A League Cup Final 11. A Scottish League Match 12. A League Match in another country. 13. Old Firm Derby 17. An English Derby. 18. An International 19. A World Cup Match 20. A World Cup Final 21. A European Championship Match 25. A Champions League Match 27. A UEFA Cup Match 28. A UEFA Cup Final 29. A Cup Winners Cup Match ................ and Final 30. A Friendly 31. A team win the league 32. A team get promoted 33. A team get relegated 35. A Penalty Shootout 36. A saved penalty 41. Watched a game at Old Wembley 42. Watched a game at New Wembley 43. Watched a game at the Millenium Stadium 44. Watched a game at the Nou Camp 45. Watched a game at the Bernebeu 46. Watched a game at the San Siro 50. Travelled more than 400 miles specifically to watch a game. Also seen Amateur Cup matches and Finals (with Enfield), guess there's not too many people who remember them, let alone been to them!! 37 including my Amateur Cup additions.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton. I think several notches is pushing it a bit. Thing is, at Bolton he had brought in all the players himself. NUFC might have a better squad man for man, but are they as well suited to the system? I couldn't see Allardyce signing Owen, for example, even though he's one of the best strikers in the country. It may well turn out that he can't cut the mustard at a big club (just like Otto Rehhagel), but it's far too early to be making that call. You've got to give him the chance to bring in the players he wants. I think several notches would be an appropriate description though I, like you, have no great biased opinion, just describing it as how we see it. The system employed by SA at Bolton was designed to do a job, basically, to keep them up. As he succeeded in that respect and over time the system evolved but not by too great a degree. I would expect that system to have its limit where it can no longer be effective if the long term goal is to continue to take the club forward. Moving to Newcastle and having the current squad, I think SA has already gone beyond the effectiveness of the old system. I did say it was my gut feeling that Allardyce was out of his depth, time may prove me wrong, but Allardyce said he needed 5 years to take Newcastle where he wants them to be and, imho, very few managers get 5 years nowadays, especially one who was not the preferred choice of the current owner. Personally, it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest to see Allardyce gone in the summer.

Back from WHL to say the score didn't flatter us, it could have been close to double figures but everything else about the match did. If Wigan had been able to put together anything resembling an attack they would have found the defence still all over the place. Where we were in the league needed a result more than a performance and that's what we got but Jesus, Wigan were pitiful! I thought no team could ever be worse than Derby when they came down to WHL but overall I reckon Wigan pushed them very hard for that title today.

I think Allardyce proved at Bolton that he could produce a team difficult to beat with meagre resources. I may be totally wrong but my gut feeling now is that Allardyce is out of his depth with a squad which is several notches up on what he had at Bolton.

I always thought there would be a transitional stage as SA evolved the team/squad into his chosen style. What I never thought was that he would try to get the Newcastle players playing in a style that would be totally alien to their talents. At the time of his appointment the choices were go for an experienced Englishman (SA), a foreign coach (Jol) or a promising younger coach with lesser experience (Boothroyd). With Allardyce I thought Newcastle had picked the right manand said so at the time, but with hindsight, maybe an opportunity was missed by not going for Boothroyd.

I think taking the awful Kevin Scott from us negates that one. True, but you'll always be forgiven dumping Scotty onto us as you also sold us Ginola, Waddle and Gazza. Fabulous talents, which unfortunately, is not how we remember KS!!! Ruel Fox, £4.5m. Be quiet. :lol: Scary to think that Fox cost more than Ginola, Waddle and Gazza combined. I suppose Sir Les at £6m was a dud as well but not his fault he was plagued with injuries in his time with us. So for me he will always be the perfect gent who I'm privileged to say I met on a couple of occasions. Top man! BTW, apologies for taking this thread far from where it should have been!

I think taking the awful Kevin Scott from us negates that one. True, but you'll always be forgiven dumping Scotty onto us as you also sold us Ginola, Waddle and Gazza. Fabulous talents, which unfortunately, is not how we remember KS!!!

Spurs were robbed when you stole Garry Brady from us!!

Where's this from, Ben the tree man?? No, from elsewhere, Ben's in Israel. Berba's agent said he won't be going in Jan, Comolli said the same, then Dad says he wants to move and now his brother. Only thing that will keep Berba in January is clubs not agreeing a fee imho. You're pretty funny with your with your info and who's here and there at Spurs. Not taking the piss, I just find it a little humorous. "Ben's out of country", Comolli said "this", Levy said "that". I've not said anything new there. The agent's comments were widely reported, Comolli's comments were from the official website, I think Dad spoke to every paper going yesterday and his brother spoke to the Mirror, amongst others, today. A bid over £20m will see him gone in January imho.

Where's this from, Ben the tree man?? No, from elsewhere, Ben's in Israel. Berba's agent said he won't be going in Jan, Comolli said the same, then Dad says he wants to move and now his brother. Only thing that will keep Berba in January is clubs not agreeing a fee imho.

I might be wrong but I would be very surprised if it did happen.

My money would be on Manyoo in the summer. Inspite of the talk from his agent saying that Berba won't leave in January, Ramos is less than impressed with his commitment to training so I wouldn't rule out a January move.

From people close to his best mate, the highlighted bits are spot on.

Yes he did, again looked very decent as he did against Northern Ireland. Only 3 Arsenal players involved for this match, Emmanuel Frimpong came on from off the bench and looked awesome as he had in the first match. No doubt in my mind he will be a star in the future. Asuming that you're a Watford fan, I hadn't realised that Harry Forrester had been pinched off you in the summer by Villa. Shame that, because he was one of the best of last year's bunch.

Jol rewriting history tbh. When it was uncertain that Berbatov would be staying or going (and it still is), there was a need for another able striker, both Jol and Comolli were agreed on Bent and Comolli agreed a deal at £8m rising to £10m . When West Ham's involvement jacked up the price, Comolli preferred an Italian whose name escapes me, he was late 20's costing £7m or so. Jol preferred Bent as he was proven in the Premiership and Levy agreed as he fitted in with the strategy of buying young and English with a trade on value and that in the end that was the way it was agreed to go forward. Petrov had been on and off for about a year, left winger and quick, true, but had a cruciate and there were question marks about his pace being maintained. Comolli had reservations, Jol had no great desire that Petrov was the one so it all fizzled out. Elano was never on the radar as far as I'm aware. As for Robinson, Jol always maintained he was one of the team's untouchables and will always play if fit irrespective of his form. I'm not saying anything new, I said it all here before in previous threads. No offence but I prefer to believe the ex-Spurs manager than his namesake. If you care to research it a bit, you'll see that the ex manager said on numerous occasionsin press conferences that Darren Bent was his number 1 transfer target etc.

If the G14 broke away from Uefa/Fifa and set up their own league, not only would they not be able to participate in domestic competition such as the FA Cup etc, but the players would be unable to particape in international Euro competition or World Cups. I can't see it happening tbh.

Jol rewriting history tbh. When it was uncertain that Berbatov would be staying or going (and it still is), there was a need for another able striker, both Jol and Comolli were agreed on Bent and Comolli agreed a deal at £8m rising to £10m . When West Ham's involvement jacked up the price, Comolli preferred an Italian whose name escapes me, he was late 20's costing £7m or so. Jol preferred Bent as he was proven in the Premiership and Levy agreed as he fitted in with the strategy of buying young and English with a trade on value and that in the end that was the way it was agreed to go forward. Petrov had been on and off for about a year, left winger and quick, true, but had a cruciate and there were question marks about his pace being maintained. Comolli had reservations, Jol had no great desire that Petrov was the one so it all fizzled out. Elano was never on the radar as far as I'm aware. As for Robinson, Jol always maintained he was one of the team's untouchables and will always play if fit irrespective of his form. I'm not saying anything new, I said it all here before in previous threads.

They all have a specific role though (except Terry Mc) whether it's dietitians, masseurs etc. Would you be in favour of scrapping the lot of this if Allardyce left or would you prefer to have someone overseeing the other side of the club that kept all of the good things in place (like Comolli is doing at Spurs) and just bring in someone who can walk into the club and not have to worry about this side of things, or the academy and scouting system. I dread another situation like we faced when Roeder took charge where we're left with one scout, nobody in charge of the academy and Terry Mc and Clarkie as our only coaches. I have no problem with dieticians etc, nor have I ever mentioned them or said I have, they are not part of the footballing strategy. If they do a s*** job they will be replaced, simple. I'm talking about scouts and people employed in the footballing areas. The manager chooses his staff. And - if we had a system which left us in the position that Spurs are in at the moment, I would seriously question the merits of the system. You are also missing the point that the Spurs "system" hasn't worked as well as they would have liked either Baggio. What is it that makes these DOF's indestructible ? What would happen if everyone had a DOF ? {i've asked this before, if you answered I can't remember having seen it} How has the DOF not worked well for Spurs? Martin Jol hasn't worked out and he's been replaced with a better coach, the whole set up has worked well for them though, try and look at how Spurs have evolved as a club away from their league positioning, they've revamped their academy and are now buying up some great young talents around Europe as well as promising English lads like Danny Rose from Leeds, they've got an excellent wage structure in place which has made the club more healthy and one that has made huge profits. Away from the pitch they are in a better condition than they have been previously for years, on the pitch it hasn't worked out for them this season and Martin Jol has lost his job because of it, away from the pitch though they are in great shape and Ramos will be able to walk straight into the club and have to concentrate on the first team only, now compare that to Allardyce who had to come here and sort everything himself, even advertising on the official site for employee's because he walked into the club which was down to the bare bones because nobody has took a grip on the club since Milne under Robson, now how much easier would life have been for Sam if he had walked into the club and the majority of things had already been in place? To answer your question - If everyone had a DOF then it would of course come down to money with the big clubs with the best players, managers and DOF's doing better, however I doubt we would see many managers coming into clubs with as much work needed doing as Allardyce had when he came here. Can't disagree with you tbh. Putting it into simplistic terms, there are 2 people running different areas of the club and they put their heads together when it comes to deciding upon new signings. If the man responsible for the results of the first team is failing, get shot and bring in someone who you hope will do the job better. In the meantime the overall strategy remains intact, the scouting system remains, the club can progress with the new man brought in without too much upheaval. Compare that to the manager being sacked or leaving for another club, taking all of his backroom staff and scouts with him, leaving the new man to start from scratch. The new man with the system in place must have a better chance of more immediate success.

Which is why I said at the beginning of the summer before Arsenal made their interest known, we should have been straight in there when he was linked with a move to Spurs. Diarra was aware of Arsenal's interest even if they hadn't made it public. When Spurs made their enquiry, the agent said there were 5 teams wanting him but the only team he would be going to would be Arsenal. Don't know which teams were interested, but it would be a fair bet to assume Newcastle were one.

Exactly what I said this morning. Only difference is that I said it on a Spurs forum saying he is the type of player Spurs needs. It will never happen but that doesn't make my assessment worng. BTW, I think he would be excellent for Newcastle also, in fact, apart from the Big 4, he would improve every team in the Premiership.

If the fees mentioned were realistic I'd be saying exactly what I said in my original post..."More likelihood of me flying to the moon than Spurs signing Alves imo." I wouldn't be talking about tattoos or Alves' left arse cheek either. I have no interest in such subjects, maybe there was some significance in you raising the subjects? I put the tattoo as close to your mouth as i could possibly get it. As I said before, I have no interest in such subjects. You're the one forever talking about tattoos and Alves' arse, think that says more about you than it does me.

If the fees mentioned were realistic I'd be saying exactly what I said in my original post..."More likelihood of me flying to the moon than Spurs signing Alves imo." I wouldn't be talking about tattoos or Alves' left arse cheek either. I have no interest in such subjects, maybe there was some significance in you raising the subjects?

Avram Grant is a long-time and close personal friend of Ambramovich apparently. Mates stick together and regardless of the nationality involved, or more specifically the racial demographic at play, a professional judgment - ie. Mourinho's sacking & Grant's appointment - as a footballing based decision could very well be compromised by a non-footballing based factor as mentioned above. IMO there's no room in football for sentimentality or allegience based decision making, both in the boardroom and matters relating to the playing side. Sad if true, but you could very well be correct re: any cloak & dagger dealings pertaining to Mourinho's demise. Mourinho's departure in part was imho self-inflicted. If after winning a couple of Premierships the owner says he wants more flair and style in the play, Mourinho can't be surprised when he's sacked if he carries on as he had done for the past 2 years. Winning 2 premierships shouldn't be discounted but if Abramovich says he wants attacking play, he'll keep making changes until he gets what he wants. Abramovich possibly going to his mate Grant saying "Should I get better attacking play from this squad?" and getting the answer "Of course mate, I could easily produce more exciting play" wouldn't have helped Mourinho's cause either! If he wanted more flair and style it might have been an idea to let Jose buy the players HE wanted and not the players recommended or purchased by the various 'power bases' at work at Stamford Bridge. Couldn't agree more. But Schevchenko is a friend of Abramovich just like Avram Grant. Maybe the real problem is that Abramovich has too many friends?? :lol: