Unbelievable

I think people overestimate what 14m will get you in the PL this January, especially considering next season's tv money at stake.

The fuck was that?

Aye, welcome back ManDoon!

Only started watching second half but Leicester have started the half very brightly. God, I wish they win the league to stuff it in all the rich clubs' faces and show what can be achieved with a little bit of organisation, belief and ambition.

So much positivity in that thread

Oh my God. RIP Pavel :'(

HBA was at Hull for the first half of last season wasn't he? It was the club's own decision to get rid, so no sympathy, but he wasn't physically available to Pardew.

Erm, so if that is the case why did we buy him in the first place? Isn't McClaren on the board and a member of our so-called transfer committee?

His gameplan is no different to Pardew's in that we basically sit deep in our own half and hope for a break up front, only the execution is slightly different in that we try to pass more rather than lump it long. It's producing few chances and fewer goals. It might sneak a couple of surprise results against better teams, but against other struggling teams it's like crossing your fingers and hoping we take our chance and they don't. I agree. The most discernible difference for me is that we now use Sissoko and Wijnaldum's driving runs from the edge of our own penalty box to break away more as opposed to aimlessly lumping it forward, but what we are seeing is a million fucking miles away from the possession football that McClaren prides himself on. In fact, our possession stats are probably very similar and this approach is helping us create even less chances per game. If nothing else I was hoping McClaren might make usplay a bit more attractive football again, but even that would be debatable now.

Absolutely, or Wijnaldum a bit further back alongside Sissoko but both with license to go forward (protected by one proper defensive midfield player).

Wasn't Thauvin easily our best player in that cup game against Northampton (I know, not exactly great opposition)? If our transfer strategy is to bring in promising players from abroad with the objective to sell them at a profit I completely fail to understand why we're letting a 12 million pound new signing rot on the bench when he should be getting used to the league and while other players are stinking the place out. As you say Dave, how will he ever be ready when he isn't given the pitch time to adapt? Anyway, I think the damage is already done and I suspect if the lad has any intelligence about him he'll want out at the earliest opportunity as we'll be ruining whatever is left of his career as we've done to so many others before him.

Not sure about that. The league is rubbish and Norwich/Bournemouth could easily go down with Villa (who have all but assured their Championship berth) and the mackems. In any case, 7 points out of the last 15 available may be enough evidence for Ashley that things are moving in the right direction without further need for his intervention. Two more points might have been had but for late-ish goals also (ignoring performances/deservedness etc). It'd be a gamble on his part, but one I think he is tight enough to take a punt on. This wouldn't surprise me one bit. I still believe that gamble would probably pay off too.

Aye, I noticed that as well, odd but a bit encouraging. It's obviously because of his class mental strength techniques. "What techniques do you employ to make sure you stay focused for the full 90 minutes?" "Normally just set myself a target to get through to 45 minutes preferably with a clean sheet, if not and I let a goal in then I’m determined to make it just that one goal, if another goal goes in then just to make it two goals and so on and so forth. Then just carry on through the match"

We'll just have to agree to disagree. Pardew, as horrifically useless as he was as a manager and as much as it pains me to admit it, had an arguably worse squad than this sitting midtable on five points more this time last season. There is a reason that the three different managers you mention weren't employed by clubs at this level when we hang our hats on them. Only at this club would it be perceivable to not sack Pardew after underachieving for so long, then replace him with fucking John Carver to piss away another half a season (and almost PL survival) to wait for Steve McClaren. All three are mediocre managers at best. Buy aye, let's continue replacing the players until it clicks, that will work.

If the players are not good enough how do you expect a manger to do well ? Conversely, if the manager is not good enough and keeps playing players out of position, deploying negative tactics and destroying players' confidence as our last three incumbents have done, how do you expect the players to do well? It works both ways. The thing I just don't understand is that it is cheaper and more effective to try and appoint a better manager to improve results than it is to keep throwing money at getting better players in. That said, we are doing neither, but a better manager could make a huge difference for a relatively minimal outlay. Sadly though, pedigree as a manager is fairly low on our list of priorities when we occasionally find ourselves in a position to make an upgrade.

So let's say out of the current 20 Premier League managers you believe that more than half of them would not have us higher up than 17th with less than a point per game?

How do you define "struggle" samag? Have us firmly rooted in the bottom three?

Yet this is where they played mostly before they joined us and for their respective countries. Presumably this is also where they took our eye and decided to move for them. I just don't understand why we feel the need to play our two best central midfielders on the wings. I'm fairly certain if we lined up like this in midfield we would look an awful lot stronger for it, both defensively and in attack: Perez Thauvin Wijnaldum Sissoko Tiote/new DM

Fuck knows, but even if we haven't, can you blame Graham Carr for the fact that we have let someone like Ben Arfa go for free, or Santon for peanuts? He recommends players, he does not decide who we buy, let alone how they are used or what they are sold for.

He spent £50 million in the summer. And he's restricted to looking for mercenaries we can potentially sell on for a profit. He's the least of our worries. he is the main problem. Any manger would struggle with this squad, he has had plenty of time to get a half decent balanced squad. instead we have a squad packed with players not good enough or always injured. He needs to take his share of the blame for this he takes a share of the blame, sure, but then given what you know about the way ashley runs the club what on earth makes you think it's anything other than seeking bargains and potential sell on value that dictates which of the targets we go for? we've been linked with plenty of players over the last 4-5 years that could be top class but we'd never ever pay the money to get them How many players has he found and sold on for big profits ? most are simply not good enough . Not arguing the point how Ashley runs the club, Just the fact Carr comes up with more crap than anything else.. Said before say it again any manager would Struggle with the squad Carr has given him. Absolutely do not agree with your final point especially, nor your overall conclusion that Carr bears most of the blame. I reserve that for Ashley and his balance sheet monkey who really decide who we buy. so you are saying most managers would not struggle with our Midfield. Ginger Jack and his mate are a joke. we have no decent fit wingers. our defence cannot keep clean sheets. The players are not good enough ... I think a good manager would be able to forge something more than we're seeing from Sissoko, Wijnaldum, Anita, Thauvin, Perez, Mitrovic & Aarons yes. There's others not mentioned that could probably be coaxed to contribute more under good management but we don't have good management. Certainly more than 17 f***ing points after 19 games. The squad is poor but I slated Pardew and Carver for their inability to get the most out of what they were given and I'm not giving McClaren a pass for the same thing. Not one player has improved since he arrived, in fact he's arguably managed to regress more than one first team player since turning up. Spot on.

The latter two were definitely on his radar, and mentioned before they hit the big time too, but as always we went in low and the other club just laughed in our face. That's why we got someone like Riviere, not because he was first choice by any means but because he was all we were willing to shell out for. Edit: according to this so was Payet: http://metro.co.uk/2013/06/19/arsenal-eye-lille-forward-dimitri-payet-as-gervinho-replacement-3847442/

Get out the lube for this one I reckon. Not sure if I want to witness this massacre.

He does need to take his share of the blame for our failure, especially since he was apparently the one pushing hard for his mate McClaren, but there is no way Graham Carr is the main problem and removing him will solve all or most of our problems. Our squad is unbalanced and hardly fit for purpose, but Graham Carr does not determine our transfer strategy, he just executes part of it. He's a glorified chief scout, tasked with finding players with a financial upside. As far as I am concerned I've long believed he was the only thing remotely acceptable at the club, as he did for a while find good players for decent fees, but since he's moved up to the DoF role our squad has actually become weaker and less balanced and we put our fate in the hands of one incompetent manager after another who were incapable of getting the best out of the players he recommended, and he has to take his share of the blame for that. Ultimately though, there is only one man ultimately responsible for hiring duds who have hired more duds who have hired more duds, and that man has actually confirmed so himself.

Well, we got six in one home game