Yorkie

Don't think anyone here is, tbh. IE - hating Owen cos he's on such massive wages. I'm just saying that he's done nothing more than Martins on the pitch, that justifies him being on £40,000-a-week extra, so Oba's entitled to a moan.

Not saying any footballer should be given £105,000 a week or whatever it is, but what the hell has Michael Owen done for us to justify being on £30/40,000 a week more than Oba? Harsh, the bloke has been injured for almost a year. His 7 goals in 14 appearances is an impressive ratio by anyone's standard. Thank God for those seven goals he got us at the start of the 05/06 season! How can anyone possibly argue that Owen has done just as much/more than Martins in his time here? Like i say, no footballer can justify being on such immense wages, but in comparison - Owen's done nothing, for us, to be the highest paid member of our squad - and by such a margin. As Vic said, Martins is entitled to a winge. Not that it'll make any difference. I can imagine he could winge all he wants but the guys at the top wouldn't do anything.

he's done more tfor this club than little mickey FFS. more than entitled tbh That's the equivalent of saying John Barnes would have deserved the same pay as Shearer after the 1997/8 season. Hardly.

Not saying any footballer should be given £105,000 a week or whatever it is, but what the hell has Michael Owen done for us to justify being on £30/40,000 a week more than Oba?

When's Rocker on, if he weren't on tonight, then?

Diomansy Kamara and Jason Koumas sold for £12m. Just what the fuck is football coming to?

That told you didn't it, Ash.

Never seen it.

Christ... when i went out i was on Page 9. Has anything actually happened or is it all just discussion?

We'd have to wait till January to play that team, like.

---------------------------------- Given ---------------------------------- Beye -------------- Taylor --------------- Campbell ---------- Bridge ---------------------------------- Diarra ---------------------------------- -------------------- Deco ------------------- Barton --------------------- -- Milner -------------------------------------------------------- Owen -- ---------------------------------- Viduka ---------------------------------- Jizz.

£4m would be a superb deal. Can imagine he'll either stay at United, or go back into Europe though.

Deco would be awesome. Double figures undoubtedly, but it would be foolish to go over £12/13m in my opinion, baring in mind that he's 30 years old this season. In regards to Eto'o though - surely not a chance? Can't be right - Samuel Eto'o? He'd never come here. We don't need another striker anyway.

Yeah, Stefan had a pic with Zoggy. Said he'd been doing well n'all.

On the upside, i've enjoyed my first full-throttle argument with the one and only Vic.

Hey ho. The argument with Vic was about Duff's performances not being helped by Roeder's favouritism towards him. That's something i'll still go with, it's probably got some truth to it, but then i suppose there probably wasn't any other realistic option than the Zog, so i can go in tandom with Vic in some respects.

Gotta admit, looking through, i've come out with some shit in this thread like. Meh. Atleast i can admit it.

(To Shak's post) Just feel that he's a player that we don't need (assuming we'll go 4-3-3 next season), never did, and would be a waste of time trying to sort his performances out when N'Zogbia has more going for him at this stage in his career. Plus, he'll undoubtedly be on big wages having come from Chelsea, and spends half his time on the injury table. He's injured till like December this season anyway! IF we could make a good chunk of our £5m back (and to be fair, i did say that in the first place), i'd be more than happy to snap Spurs' hands off. Not that we would be able to sell him at this moment in time anyway... If he stays, i'm not overly bothered; i've never actually started an i-want-him-out parade. Go back to my very first post and i said Sam needed to kick him up the arse, not Sam needed to boot him out. Just if someone comes in with a decent offer, i'd happily accept it.

How was Duff ever going to get any better when Roeder threw him straight back in the team, without any second thought? Calm down, btw. I've no idea what you're even getting at here, is duff some kind of untried youth player? Nope, he was tried and tested and utterly shit. N'Zogbia wasn't the only other option, he could have played Milner there. Or Emre, or even Pattison or Luque. Fact is, he didn't try (for any prolonged period, anyway). Duff barely had to do owt to earn his place in our side, even if he was playing badly, except win two Premiership titles a couple years back. The initial point was that. There was no competition for left-wing in Roeder's eyes so Duff barely had to push himself. Glad you've cooled yourself.

How was Duff ever going to get any better when Roeder threw him straight back in the team, without any second thought? Calm down, btw.

we need two LW's and we need one who's actually proved himself in the premiership Not if we're playing 4-3-3. And who cares if he's proved himself in the Premiership? He was abysmal last season and is on the downfall. And aye, he was s**** last season, but N'Zogbia's proved he can play in the Premiership aswell. it's nowt personal, i'd love to argue with four people lets be honest he hasn't proved himself in the premiership I enjoy a good debate (wonder who'll be first to 'FYP' me), but i don't have a hope in hellers against four people who disagree with me. I'm just not intelligent enough. Proved himself isn't the term, but N'Zogbia's shown that he's definitely up to it when it comes to playing in the Premiership, as he was good in 04/05 and very good in 05/06. 'Proved himself' is probably one notch higher in the scale, but he's up to it. No question for me. Just needs some guidance.

I make of it that you think you know an awfull lot about the two players minds, and that this at best a simplistic interpretation of events "laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall" FFS I said i was summarising, which is why it was brief. Seeing as you picked out that point, i'll branch off and go into more depth, just for your sake. Roeder favoured Duff, there is absolutely no question about that. It was his big (pointless) signing, and as a weak manager he felt as though he had to play him, not having the balls to drop him, regardless of whether it was for the good of the team or not. This clearly rubbed off on Duff, because he knew that whenever he came back from injury, he'd just cruise straight back into the starting line-up, without even having to sweet talk Roeder. Psychologically speaking, the player is obvioulsy enjoying the easy ride, and it is detrimental to his performance. He didn't have to work for his place. That's why Roeder's favouritism contributed to poor performances. Same could be said for a few other players aswell. Dyer in-particular, who started off well, but then came cemented as an automatic starter and his performances decreased significantly come the end of the season. Vic, instead of saying 'FFS', can't you atleast develop a decent argument?

we need two LW's and we need one who's actually proved himself in the premiership Not if we're playing 4-3-3. And who cares if he's proved himself in the Premiership? He was abysmal last season and is on the downfall. And aye, he was shite last season, but N'Zogbia's proved he can play in the Premiership aswell.

Good post, NE5 - well the last paragraph i mean. I still think Duff was a needless signing. Hopefully people might ignore the Shepherd extract.

I'm arguing against about four people here so i'm just gonna summarise my opinion and leave it at that. N'Zogbia had attitude problems, and he should have handled himself better, i'm not disputing that. Roeder was the main point of his downfall, though. If the players have got a serious problem, either on the pitch or off it or both, it is up to the manager to get a grip and try and help the guy. Roeder fucked up big time. I think N'Zogbia has the potential to be one of the best wingers in the Premiership, providing he is taught right - he'd have been immense at Arsenal - and i was deeply saddened and angry as fuck to see him get wasted last season, when he was so good in 05/06. I don't like Duff, we didn't need him and i couldn't give two shits if we got a fee for him and he buggered off. He was a total waste of space last season, clearly on the downfall, and he's not getting any younger so i can't imagine he'll peak back up to how he was - especially given his rotten injury record. I said Allardyce should be tough with him, because that's exactly what Roeder wasn't; and i feel that the laid-back favouritism from Roeder contributed to Duff's downfall. I never said that N'Zogbia shouldn't be given a good kick up the arse aswell. Those are my honest opinions regarding the two players. Make of it what you will.