Parky

He still has my full support. But when he fucks up he'll have to deal with me. Count yersel luck I'm letting it out in here and not on the front page. :parky: Parky, these things are nowt man, and deep down you know it. If after a year in the job and we're still playing like that, and these issues are not resolved then fair enough but this is the 5th game of a whole new era that will take at least 3 years to come to light. He's generally doing the right things and everyone can see that. I use the word generally on purpose. But I'm also beginning to see a one or two things he's over obsessed with. We are moving forward and the squad is stronger. It will take time to get the full malak into these players heads and again I appreaciate that. But I want to see more swords and less clubs in the way we play and support each other.

I thought Rangers put in a good performance.

He still has my full support. But when he fucks up he'll have to deal with me. Count yersel luck I'm letting it out in here and not on the front page. :parky:

Yes, Parky. That's exactly what I mean, all our players retrained as electricians. I'm surprised you don't remember Martins' DIY advice column about re-wiring your kitchen on a budget... I mean, among other things, the musical-chairs approach to managers the club's used the last 3 seasons, the mid-summer takeover, and Allardyce's efforts to rebuild the squad and completely restructure the backroom from the ground floor up, along with trying to integrate an unfamiliar playing formation. If that doesn't count as upheaval in your book, fine. But if you think that stuff has no effect on players' mindsets, you're smoking some serious crack. You should read the rest. I'm sure there's plenty of other confusing sentences in there. Hell, I don't know what half of 'em mean, and I wrote the bastards. None of that's meant as a defense of our performance on Monday, by the way. It was absolute shit and embarrassing to watch. But that doesn't change the fact that, judging from what Sam's said and done, he has his own priorities for this season, and I don't think a high finishing position is necessarily one of them. I don't bother when a bogus excuse crops up on line one. They are professional footballers ffs! If they were ballet dancers then I'd expect them to be put off by a full moon or the lack of iced Evian. Rebuilding the back room staff or buying a fridge the players have to stand in after training has nowt to do with bad tactics, visionless buys and rotten performances.... I do get your general theme but it isn't enough imo to explain the Derby came or the stuttering leading upto that game.

It's like in the other thread people saying they would have been happy with a draw and shit......Unreal..

But that's the thing... thinking that we would do anything better than mid-table this season was certainly unrealistic, in my eyes. With all the upheaval at the club, with the past seasons of unrest and mediocrity and inconsistency, with all the changes that have happened and all the ones that need to happen still, a top-6 finish this season would have been downright miraculous. A top-8 finish would be a serious uphill struggle. Even top-10 will need determined effort. But I'd say, based on what Allardyce has said and done so far, that we should not be focusing on our position in the league as an indicator of success for this season. We should be looking for significant improvement in our defensive performances over the course of the season, and that's really pretty much it. Allardyce obviously made the decision to focus primarily on strengthening our defence this summer, since it's generally been our weakest area. He brought in Viduka, Barton, and Smith to kind of pad out the front/attacking mid areas but didn't really work on strengthening our attack, because generally it's in much better shape than our defense was. Except for those 3, every signing we made was either a defender or a defensive mid. Some may argue that he should have been looking for more options up front instead of focusing almost exclusively on shoring up the back, but I don't necessarily see it as a mistake. I see it as a long-term strategy. A somewhat risky one, but a strategy nonetheless. I'd expect Allardyce's plan for this season was to focus on defensive improvements, trying to stop us from leaking goals and organizing our back line and in dong so, trusting our existing midfielders/strikers to get enough goals to give us a semi-decent league finish, a stance which I think is backed up by his deliberate efforts to play down any speculation of a top-6 finish this season and by quotes about needing several years to really implement his plans for Newcastle. I'd say he's not going to be looking at a high league position this season as an important goal, merely shooting to finish slightly better than last season. What he's really looking for is a tighter defense that works as a team and concedes fewer goals. I really think he'd be happy with even a 12th or 13th place finish as long as our defense looks competent and composed by season's end. If we do finish top-10 or even top-8, so much the better. But if we don't, it's not a huge problem as long as we show definite signs of improvement where we need to. Fix the defense this season, worry about the midfield and attack next season. Don't try and rig a half-ass solution to all our problems all at once. Focus on them one at a time, fix them completely, and then move to the next. Incremental steps forward. I'm just not sure most fans are patient enough for it. It's an unpopular viewpoint, I'm sure, to think that we shouldn't be focusing on pushing up the table, but I think that putting too much emphasis on results undermines efforts to really address the underlying problems with the team. Don't make it about must-win games, make it about improved performances in target areas. If we do that, then the results will come in due time. Assuming we're patient enough to let Allardyce see things through, that is... I stopped at the first sentence what do you mean by upheaval? They has the builders in? The players were distracted by the buyout? They retrained as electricians...?

First I've heard of any such activity to be honest. Then you must have forgot about van rapist (ok ok the charges were dropped) and the cocaine/gambling twins that are Tony Adams and Paul Merson. Im sure there are more examples. i suspect delusional also classified as crime...

Don't think Enrique will be fit.

Why is this qoute unbelievable? Surely all he's saying is that while everyone around him was expecting us to walk the game, he was expecting it to be very tough, hence "we didn't go there expecting to win." And in the scheme of things, a draw would have been a good result, considering they it was always going to be a really tough time to play them I think people are just picking at meaningless things.... YET AGAIN You're off your rocker.

Where's that quote from? Was in The Mirror. First sentence was something along the lines of "I didn't mention top-six finish blah, blah", but that was the line that caught my eye. Did HE really say that I can't believe...Who have we hired Emo?

With all SA's planning and the whole summer we've kicked off yet another season lacking a good compliment of players. I'm happy what he's done/doing with the defence but that's it really.

Seems to me he's set his early stall out not to lose games and gambled on the early return and form of the likes of Duff, Barton and Emre.

Well at half time he obviously thought "Hmm. We created almost nothing, didn't defend that well. Best do exactly the same in the second half", so what reason do we have to believe he'll do things differently next week? If he really learned anything during the game then instead of bringing on a defensive midfielder and right back to replace a defensive midfielder and right back why didn't he actually change things? Why not bring Beye on for Smith put Beye at right back and move Taylor to left back, which free's N'zogbia up to move to left wing and Milner over to his natural right wing position. That match was crying out for a few creative players to stretch the play and give Martins and Ameobi more room up front. If Allardyce couldn't see that during the game then I'm not overly confident he'll see it afterwards. I'm not trying to be all doom and gloom and I'm not going to give up on Allardyce after only a few games either. But I will say that so far I'm haven't been impressed and that game last night set some alarm bells ringing for me. I just hope that once Enrique comes in N'Zogbia will be moved to left wing and Milner will go to right wing. Idealy I'd like Allardyce to give up on this silly big striker little striker idea and also be less cautious in the center of the midfield' but I'm a lot less condifent of that happening.. Nearly everyone in the thread could see Zog had to be freed up....It does worry me also that the changes were so passive.

What manager in their right mind wuld leave Oba on the bench?

So just because Liverpool put 6 past them, at Anfield, that means every team including us should be putting goals past them, even at Pride Park? At some point, Derby were gonna get a win, and work out how to put 11 men behind the ball, and stop people playing - its just unfortunate it happened last night, and we didn't show much creativity either anyway. Yes, we played badly, which may or may not be partly down to the international break, and having players away - but regardless, I cannot believe so many people are getting at Allardyce already, after ONE defeat! So much for giving the new management time, eh??!!!! Probably many the same people who were screaming because Ashley wasn't spunking millions on over-priced/over-paid 'trophy' or Galactico' signings. It's not about giving "the manager time" etc..I was in full support of his appointment and still am. It's about debating something that is we have seem periods of in previous games and against Derby was in full view...We're not even getting the basics right! Lopsided formation, haphazard and panicky passing, no creativity, little midfield support for the strikers...Ameobi sauntering and flailing...I was so uptight I started feeling sick around 60min... The manager isn't above criticism as long as it is level headed and his desicisions are always open to debate that is what makes football special. I didn't expect us to brush Derby aside as I knew they'd be playing for pride but I didn't expect to be butt fucked by them either.

YOu wont win the PL under Benitez. There will be a small window of opp if Abramovitch leaves Chelsea or Wenger leaves Arsenal or the transition after Fergie is problematic. Benitez just isn't clever enought over the long race of a full season. In saying that with Torres in the side and if you get one more quality wide player anything can happen.

The failings have been there in all the games this season bar 40min against Bolton and 10 man Wigan at home. The failings of Alan Smith have been there in all those games too, it doesn't stop you being "N.O.'s OFFICIAL Alan Smith Supporter 07/08." :-[

Not judging him, just pulling him up for a very bad day at the office.

The failings have been there in all the games this season bar 40min against Bolton and 10 man Wigan at home.

The PL is where you get found out. Not only if your side aren't committed and organised (they weren't) but also for the newcomers Cacapa and Roze. This was the first match a side has really had a proper crack at our center backs albeit a poor side like Derby. It was like watching virgin sailors in a force 9. The CB's were dominated and rattled time after time...They now know what the PL is all about, if other sides sense a weakness or lack of desire they will get amongst you especially the poorer sides. For all his obsession with a defensive looking midfield and Alan Smith wasted on the right and the purchase of yet another Dm in Faye, the creative and attacking side of our game has withered, in all seriousness teams like Derby will get flattenend by our supposed close rivals ie Spurs, Villa and Everton. SA has set about rebuilding from the back and it was needed yet he let Dyer and Solano go without a creative or winger replacement. Zoggy ranging upfield in desperation at the malaise of sideways passing instigated by Butt and Geremi and in the middle of it all Owen looking like a lost schoolboy. The ball was again too often pumped to Milner without the midfield moving up and supporting the strikers....Martins pushed out wider and wider to get the ball or get space as he was surrounded by 3 def in the middle...None of our midfield pushed on, normally instinctive situations and responses of players strangely lacking...Once they felt the heat Derby were putting out there was strangely no reply, we had no guvnor, no one with authority in the middle, Barton won't bring that either...We seem to have an excess of tacklers who want to give it to another player and quickly...Butt even looked ball shy at some points. We look hard to beat? We'll soon look like we can't win a game. There is something about SA's vision which on the playing side - on the pitch is a bit flat. And all his talk about the backroom staff and new methods will soon be forgotten if he doesn't grow some balls and not hide behind this safety first bullshit.

iirc Alan Smith has never played wide right in his whole career. So why now? That would be fairer to the player than just villifying him after every game.

Didn't have much choice last night, in fairness. But that's as far as I'll defend that team selection. 8 players out injured by my count, half of them probable automatic choices. Doesn't help. It's accommodating Owen in there that caused the problem, if you ask me, as we simply don't have the players for 4-4-2 at this moment. He got a lot of simple things wrong. Beye on the bench and Taylor (mid contract spat) at right back....Shola ahead of Martins..Starting 2 def midfielders against a Derby side fresh from a 6-0 banging sent out the wrong signals...Zoggy had to start further up the park and one off game at left back for some other clown wouldn't have been an issue with Derby defending deep. It really ended up being just knock it to Milner and hope for the best.

Excellent post. Summed up the main failings to a tee. Also def deep teams like Derby don't mind the ball going wide as it gives them another tempo beat to organise the defence...I think you mentioned somewhere that pace through the middle is the biggest threat as they don't have time to organise and lose positional awareness in the melee. Why in the name of god isn't Zoggy playing further up the park, any no of clowns can fill in at LB against a side like Derby.

Totally agree with that analysis.