Delima

When I cite Pogatetz and Bramble I mean that both did the physical works for Woodgate.

It is just a rumour. I read that from teletext if I recall correctly. When I say Barcelona are not going to renew Ronaldinho's contract, it could be that Barcelona selling Ronaldinho to other club.

How humble you are, starting a post with a sniding yeah right and then ending it with a IMO !!? Just because you hardly heard of other less special Reading players does not mean that they would be poor by default. Steve Coppell is quietly improving his squad slowly, and doing so spending next to nothing. They now have Ibrahima Sonko and Ívar Ingimarsson as their main central defenders. This is a decent okayish partnership. But in this January alone Coppell signed Alan Bennett (25), Greg Halford (22) and Michael Duberry (31), all best central defenders for their previous clubs Cork City, Colchester United and Stoke City. And they still have Andre Bikey (22) who has been solid in the past 2 games for Reading. This summer Coppell should continue his pursue of Leon Bennet, the Luton Town chief defender. Why do you necessarily assume that their best performers will go? Did West Ham lose any major player? Wigan lost Jimmy Bullard, anyone else? Wigan current blue has a lot more to do with other players failing to perform rather than losing Jimmy Bullard. Apart from Steve Sidwell, have you heard of any news on any other contract rebel? Why do you assume that Reading will do nothing in the summer? Did you think that they are quiet this January before I mention the new players? West Ham was very active in the summer transfer window last year, and winter January transfer window this year. But how are they doing? And "be out of the Premiership within the next four/five years", is hardly comparable to the Ipswichs and the Sunderlands? PS when i said "a force to be reckoned", a midtable club is a force to be reckoned to me. "Quite a while" means quite a few years, the time span of the peak of a player. West Ham were very much a force to be reckoned with during the spell under Harry Redknapp and Glenn Roeder.

How about Felix Magath? Frank Rikjaard? (who is said would take a year sabbatical off football after this year with Barcelona). How about Paul Le Guen when he was available? Guus Hiddink? Roberto Mancini? Don't think any of them will come, however much I hope.

There is no question at all Lescott is a better player! Just look at their performances this year. If you insist that Dawson is as good as Lescott as central defender, then Lescott's verstality as left back and right back makes him a better than Dawson. Dawson looks the poorer defender alongside King. And he still looks a poor defender whether he is partnering Gardner or Davenport. Whereas good defenders still look good even if he is playing alongside poor defenders, eg Taylor + Bramble / Boumsong.

I pick Cesc Fabregas. This is because if one wants to build a team around a certain player, then ideally the team play, both offensive and defensive, should go through this player to maximise the effect. In this circumstances the player should ideally play in the middle, participating actively in winning the ball, distributing the ball and dictating the play. He should also be very comfortable in receiving the ball, should be consistent and not injury prone. Buffon is out of equation because you can't build a team around a keeper. Steven Gerrard would be a good shout but he is too inconsistent to my liking. Ronaldinho, an incredible player he is, plays on the left and I don't want my team to be off balance. Both Thierry Henry and Fabio Cannavaro are not young anymore (and you can't build a team around a defender). Leo Messi is a winger, and is quite fragile. This leave Wayne Rooney and Cesc Fabregas. Rooney is not an out and out striker, and often appears in deep position starting attacking plays. But Cesc Fabregas edges him because he is a better defensive player. Paul Scholes would be a good shout but he is not young anymore. Carrick is another good shout but he is yet to reach top class. One of the reasons Man U have been fantastic this year is that they have Scholes, Rooney, Carrick, Ronaldo, Giggs, all whom are more than capable to start and finish any offensive move.

Hah? Rooney being ordinary this season !!? What's the shame of not outshining Paul Scholes - currently the very best quarter back and attacking midfielder rolled into 1 in premiership (also alledgely favoured by Henry and Fabregas as player of the year), and Nemanja Vidic - who has been absolutely colossal for Manchester United? If anything, Ronaldinho has been pretty low key this season, even annoying his own fans. Rumour also has that Barcelona is not going to renew his contract.

Dawson had shown good potential at that time? This does not suggest that he is a better defender than others such as Lescott though! Campbell will not be in tomorrow's match. But Dawson is still a long way behind him, despite this call up!

Evidence please?

Wayne Rooney

The continuous England call ups are more due to lack of competition, his physical resemblence to John Terry (the then hottest England star) rather than his true ability (not mean to offend you). Dawson was in Tottenham, an up and coming premiership club. Lescott was in Wolves (and missed a whole season), Championship struggler. Davies in West Brom, a premiership relegation contender. Taylor in Newcastle, injured or alongside Boumsong/Bramble. Also, Taylor and Davies are a few years younger than Dawson. Don't forget that, in senior squad, both Wes Brown and Jonathan Woodgate were always injured. This leave Terry, Ferdinand, Campbell, Carragher, King as the only recognised senior defenders. If Dawson is not called up who else??? PS Upson was playing for Birmingham, a relegation contender. He is also a good few years older than Dawson, hence pointless to groom him as the next generation defensive pillar.

Why do you think Lescott is utter sh1te? Honestly I would be extremely happy if Taylor's partner is Lescott. Also, physical attributes are part and parcel in defensive ability. Hence I can "understand" that some people see King marginally better than Woodgate. But ultimately I very much disagree with this for though Woodgate is not as tough as King, he rarely get outmuscled and he has hardly been bullied by any physical players in premiership. Perhaps in Newcastle and Boro he has Bramble and Potagetz respectively, but in Leeds he had Rio Ferdinand!

James Beattie is quite a limited footballer, limited to knocking the ball in. Whereas Lita is more versatile than him, though his primary asset is still is finishing. Lita could appear to be "lazy" at times but when he plays he is a much better player than Beattie. My opinions.

Delima's final verdict: * 1 Scott Carson - 6 - So so, needs to improve if he wants to overtake Foster and Kirkland. * 2 Justin Hoyte - 6 - So so, better right back than left back. * 6 Curtis Davies - 8 - Apart from the errors that lead to goals, Davies has been pretty impressive. He has good skills and is not afraid to venture upfront (not aimlessly) * 5 Steven Taylor - 8 - Very solid. If we could somehow get Davies in the summer than our central defense partnership is very well sorted for the next decade. Does very well on one-on-one situations. * 3 Andrew Taylor - 5 - Poor. * 4 Tom Huddlestone - 6 - So so, apart from some nice passes. Needs to be significantly tougher, him. * 10 Nigel Reo-Coker - 7 - So so. Pretty physical, and to good effect. But he needs an extra edge if he wants to reach the class of Lampard, Gerrard etc. * 8 James Milner - 4 - Out of position, doesn't see the ball much. * 7 David Bentley - 8 - Best player in the first half. Skillful, audacious, nice pace, and has good vision. * 9 David Nugent - 7 - Isolated up front. So so apart from the well taken goal. Think he needs to be played deeper. * 11 Ashley Young - 5 - Well contained by opposition. * 22 Joe Hart - 7 - Decent performance. * 14 Liam Rosenior - 7 - Decent performance. Going to be Fulham prized asset for a long time. * 15 Kieran Richardson - 7 - Audacious. * 16 Theo Walcott - 6 - A bit light weight. * 18 Leroy Lita - 8 - Very good.

He barely moves? I thought he is one of the best player in the second half. Showed some good movements and good positioning. I think he will at the very least achieve as much as Darren Bent. Kevin Doyle, Leloy Lita, David Kitson, Stephen Hunt Bobby Convey, James Harper, Steve Sidwell Nicky Shorey, Alan Bennett, Greg Halford Steve Coppell Reading is going to be a force to be reckoned for quite a while.

The way they play (lone striker), they should put Lita instead of Nugent. Take Milner off. And maybe replace Davies with Cahill since Davies' nose is bleeding. Lastly either add Walcott in or play both Lita and Nugent

Can you figure out where does James Milner play actually?

Anyone else watching? Half Time Spain 2 England 0 Steven Taylor has been very steady. Before the bloody nose Curtis Davies has been good, but after that he seems different - at fault for both goals. David Bentley has been the best English player on the pitch. James Milner has been pretty quiet. Huddlestone seems out of tune with teamates at times. Nigel Reo Coker offers some brawns but little else. Ashley young well contained. David Nugent is very lonely upfront. And Stuart Pearce is always shouting something as usual. Not that Spain is any good. It is a pretty 50-50 match despite of the scoreline. Scott Carson Justin Hoyte Curtis Davies Steven Taylor Andrew Taylor David Bentley Nigel Reo Coker Tom Huddlestone Ashley Young David Nugent James Milner Edit: Left back is Andy Taylor not Justin Hoyte

A list of top ten English defender by "Alan Shearer", a Toon fan I suppose. Why is Upson in there and no Curtis Davies? And Linvoy Primus? Can't believe that there are some Spurs fan who think Dawson is better than Lescott. I can accept that, though disagreeing, some saying King being marginally better than Woodgate. But Dawson better than Lescott?

I think he is worse than mid table keeper. Mid table keepers like Sorensen, Schwazer, while being reasonably reflexsive, still instills confidence on defenders in front of him. Paul Robinson does not. Sorensen have young Villa defenders in front of him. Last season Schwazer had both immobile aging defenders and inexperienced young defenders in front of him. Yet both of them did very admirably in such circumstances. Paul Robsinson had King and Dawson in front of him, yet he couldn't stand out. Now King is absent, he is trully a liability apart from odd occasions.

I don't understand why people write Chopra off so easily. Very true that he is only shining in the Championship. But as Toon Taylor rightly points out, it is his quality of play that makes him standout. Cardiff City is very dependent on him. And he is not only scoring, he is assisting a lot. He gots the all round ability, although obviously not as refined as other premiership strikers. Compare Chorpa to Earnshaw. The latter is quite one dimensional in my opinion, and this is not good enough for premiership, unless the player is extremely good at one thing he specialises in, eg Van Nistelrooy, Cole. Chopra, on the contrary, is quite all rounded yet not merely jack in every trade. He is not in Saha's class but surely he is not far from than Doyle? Seems like many people form an opinion on a player based on the league he is playing in. So much about the complains about others fans forming an opinion actually watching him on telly!

I don't really know the exact definition of unsung. In this age of detailed media scrutiny I wouldn't say that any players' credit would go unnoticed. But I would give it a shot however. Mark Schwarzer - Other keepers (Jaaskelainen, Sorensen, Weaver) have got plenty of credits for their sudden surge of performance. But Schwarzer has yet to grab spotlight as others, though he is equal to afforementioned keepers. Gary Neville - What a class act this season he is. The near complete full back package. Not only he is as strong defensively as ever, he has improved vastly on his overlapping, crossing and other offensive play. While Evra grabs the headlines due to his previous villain statue, and while Neville has got his share of praise, he in my opinion should get a lot more attention. Joleon Lescott - I don't understand why the media spotlights are still on Campbell and Dawson, when Lescott's performance and versatility, especially the latter, are better than them this season. Nemanja Vidic - He is the intelligent version of John Terry. He is the best centre back this season, and he makes Rio Ferdinand looks good beside him. This is not easy. Nobby Solano - Hardly any mention about his excellence as right back for Newcastle United in the media. El-Hadji Diouf - See Savage. Robbie Savage - His antics are hardly unsung. But his dirty works for his teams are not noted much as a result. He is the pillar for Blackburn, especially with the team having two light weight wingers. Mikel Arteta - Others have said enough in this thread. James Milner - Still not a top class player, but he has been trully magnificient for Newcastle United. At times he carries the whole team himself. A player whom you should only underetimate at your own peril. Yakubu - Spotlights are on Martins, Berbatov, Kuyt, McCarthyetc. But where would Boro be without him? Andriv Schevchenko - He is hardly annonymous. But people are constantly talking about his price tag, his lack of goal, his striker partnership etc. But why is Drogba doing so well whenever Schevchenko is playing alongside him? True he is not as clinical as he should be. But his running, his positioning, his creation of space are top class and many times all these lead to Drogba's goals. In yesterday Observer Drogba states that he prefers playing in a 442 Chelsea rather than a 433 Chelsea. What he forgets is that his partner in his favourite system is this expensive player. Manager - Aidy Boothroyd. His team is rock bottom in the league but people forget the works he is doing for Watford. Perhaps the media realise that he won't be sack, hence not really news worthy. However, one rarely sees a relegation bound team battling so impressively every match.

Slap bang in the middle of the league at 10th, how happy are you with your teams performances so far this year? What are your hopes for the rest of the year? Unhappy. Top 6, but reallistically top 10. Michael Owen used to be a hero at Anfield, how do you think he has done so far at Newcastle? Will he ever be the same? He has done nothing. Excellent player he is, we were wrong to purchase him. Who has been your best player(s) so far this season? Nobby Solano, James Milner Emre recently got accused of racist comments by our blue neighbours, your views? If he is proven to be a racist I want him out of the club. But I strongly doubt that he is really a racist. How desperate are you in Geordie land to win a trophy? Extremely desperate Liverpool and Newcastle served up a 4 - 3 cracker in the late nineties twice! What are your memories of the games? Howay Everton What are your views on the current Liverpool squad? If you could have one player till the end of the season who would it be? Liverpool have the most complete squad in the premiership. They should be challenging for the title if their early form wasn't so poor for their standard. I would take John Arne Riise off your hand as he would Carr/Babayaro are absolute liability. Your views on our manager Rafa Benitez? Intelligent, tactically astute, observant, excellent manager. The absolutely right manager if your club are planning for long term future. Wish he is in my club instead. Newcastles known for its passionate fans and its fit birds - what can the travelling Liverpool faithful expect of the Newcastle crowd? Noisy bunch etc. Are the girls as dirty as they sound!?!?! Even dirtier and finally can you predict the score for the newkit forum? 1-0 to Newcastle United

The following are the players included in England National Team against Spain. Paul Robinson (Tottenham Hotspur), Chris Kirkland (Wigan Athletic), Ben Foster (Manchester United, on loan to Watford) Wayne Bridge (Chelsea) John Terry (Chelsea), Jamie Carragher (Liverpool), Jonathan Woodgate (Middlesbrough on loan from Real Madrid) Rio Ferdinand (Manchester United), Michael Dawson (Tottenham Hotspur) Gary Neville (Manchester United), Phil Neville (Everton), Micah Richards (Manchester City) Stewart Downing (Middlesbrough), Gareth Barry (Aston Villa) Frank Lampard (Chelsea), Steven Gerrard (Liverpool), Jermaine Jenas (Tottenham Hotspur), Kieron Dyer (Newcastle United) Michael Carrick (Manchester United), Scott Parker (Newcastle United), Owen Hargreaves (Bayern Munich), Joey Barton (Manchester City) Shaun Wright-Phillips (Chelsea), Aaron Lennon (Tottenham Hotspur) Andy Johnson (Everton), Peter Crouch (Liverpool), Wayne Rooney (Manchester United), Jermain Defoe (Tottenham Hotspur) It is a huge squad without a doubt, and I can understand that why the likes of James, Campbell and Beckham are left out. But why is Carson omitted while the good but erratic Kirkland, not to mention the poor and erratic Paul Robinson selected? Why is there only one natural left back? Where is Leighton Baines? Phil Neville has been excellent and indispensable to Everton without a doubt, but do we really need him in such a big squad where there are ample covers for each position? Why is Michael Dawson in the squad, when he has had a poor season thus far and still far from fulfilling his touted potential as John Terry? Joleon Lescott should be in his stead. Or perhaps Wes Brown, if SWP can get into the squad. Shaun Wright Phillip should not be admitted into the squad, because he couldn't even get regular football in Chelsea. And whenever he plays, he has been patchy. The inclusion of him sends out the false message that past reputation is far more important than current ability. Against Spain, my personal starting line up (strongest) would be Ben Foster Gary Neville, Rio Ferdinand, Jonathan Woodgate, Wayne Bridge Aaron Lennon, Steven Gerrard, Michael Carrick, Stewart Downing Wayne Rooney, Andy Johnson And bring in Lescott, Richards, Dyer, Hargreaves, and Defoe at one point or another. An exciting match I reckon. How about you?