merlin

Surely you're not naive enough to believe that football hasn't changed one bit since 1993? And surely YOU are not naive enough to believe that Clough wouldn't have been a success in whatever era he managed..??

He needs the rest of the team playing well more than he ever has. Which doesn't bode well. One of the most perceptive and accurate comments I've seen - sadly, he is wasted, just like the other forwards, if we keep playing the same way....

Howay man. Did you see the Wigan game or what? Or the Derby game? Fulham? Derby away? sunderland? These are teams that get humiliated on a regular basis and we huffed and puffed in an attempt to get a point against all of them. Once is fine, twice is tolerable, but every bloody week? Wullie, lower your expectations, you're expecting too much. For the last three seasons we've been a mid-table side that has had the occaisonal flirtation with the relegation zone. That's the reality and that's not going to be turned around quickly. Of the sides mentioned, Derby are the only ones who are really poor. An away game against the others isn't a cakewalk for a midtable side. I'm not saying Big Sam hasn't made mistakes. He's finding out about the players and has probably made too many changes. But he's got to be given more than half a season. A cakewalk? We had one shot and it was exactly the same at Fulham, Derby and the SoS. Four games and the best chance in any was our centre half against Derby. That is not acceptable, I don't care how you dress it up. You're exaggerating, and ignoring some of the better performances. I'm frustrated as well. I expected things to be better. But Ferguson's underlying point is that the pressure exerted by the fans is doing more harm than good, and he's right on that one. Moyes at Everton, Hughes at Blackburn, Redknapp at Portsmouth have all been through difficult times, but look at them now. I'm not exaggerating actually. Rozehnal vs Derby was our best chance in those games. We went for a point in every game and were dreadful each time. Well I seem to remember that we did well in the first half against Fulham, but we're getting bogged down in details which I'm too pissed to remember well at the moment. The bigger picture is that Big Sam is on a learning curve. He is in a new job, with new players, trying to make sense of the aftermath of what's been left over from three previous managers who were operating under an interfering chairman. In that situation, you're not going to get everything right first time. Give him a chance to learn his lessons, get the players in that he needs, and then judge him. A Learning Curve, for heavens' sake !?? He's supposed to be an EXPERIENCED manager - that is why he gets 3m a year, he's not Alan Shearer dropped in at the deep end ...Oh wait, maybe that's NEXT week ! Seriously, this is no excuse - if he doesn't know that players should be played in the best positions, or that 6m is a lot to spend on a fullback you don't have any confidence in, OR that most of your signings are going off to the African Nations' Cup halfway through a season, he shouldn'r either have the job, OR be getting such an outrageous salary.

They are mates aren't they. I'm sure he's got our best interests at heart...Like f*** he has. Yeah there mates & have been seen sitting next to each other at LMA do's & at a Labour party pow-wow. To be fair to Sir Alex he has talked about the number of managers we have had in his time at Man Utd before. He sometimes mentions us when he does his after dinner speaking says something about Newcastle being the only place the local paper can sell a extra 20'000 copies on the back of headline left back injured & it turns out it is a reserve player. Deep down Sir Alex has soft spot for us Deep down he has an unreasoning phobia about us, you mean - he knows that we almost toppled them in 96, and that if we had, they would have had a club battling them for the next 5-10 years with almost as much support potential as them... See my comments about this on the 'If not Sam then Who?' thread.

So you think you are a better judge than one Brian Clough then do you !?? Because, as I keep telling you, that is EXACTLY what Clough said football was - a simple game made complicated by Buffoons... If you get the players playing in a system they are comfortable with , AND to their strengths, they will do the business PROVIDED they have a modicum of ability. Clough did not take 20 games to make an impact at Derby and everywhere he went he took John McGovern with him ..one day, a NE journalist, Doug Weatherall, asked Clough why he always signed McGovern, as none of the Press guys could see anything in him - Clough replied ' that's why YOU are a journalist, and I am a MANAGER, Doug..!!' John Robertson, now coach to O'Neill at Villa, never got on well with Clough, but he would run through a brick wall for him because Clough let him PLAY TO HIS STRENGTHS as a left-winger...do you think Cloughie would have played N'Zogbia at LB, because I don't....I once saw him bollocking a player in training because the guy was a striker and he was taking corners - Clough said ' I didn't pay 1m for you to mess around taking corners, I paid it so you could score goals- GET IN THE MIDDLE !' No messing about with positional changes for BC..!!

I don't think it'll be Shearer. I don't know who it'll be but someone with a proven track record would be my guess. Apppointing Shearer seems too much of a risk. I agree with this. I DO think Shearer has a chance of becoming a good manager one day, but I want to see him prove himself away from SJP first ; if he comes here and fails it will ruin any chance he has of becoming what he could be as a manager. The problem is that many fans cannot see beyond him because ;- 1.He's a Geordie 2.He's the most iconic player many below the age of 30 have seen at SJP 3.The media keep pushing him 4.Many cannot see that we have any other choice. This last point is quite relevant - of all well-recognized managers or candidates, Shearer is the only one we have a decent chance of getting - BUT - that does not mean we should definitely do it(see my comments about other up & coming managers earlier this week). IF Allardyce goes, this is the most crucial decision in the club's history during the past 15 years - we took a gamble with KK in 92 and it paid off, but we had little to lose ; if the Board get the next one wrong, it could set us back almost to pre-KK days. The next manager HAS to be here for some years if we are to re-establish the club's credibility - only a SUCCESSFUL period of stability will make us respected once again. Incidentally, I see that Ferguson has been defending his pal Allardyce, and saying its a job no-one would want, that the worst thing NUFC did was to beat Man Ure 5-0(he thinks we all expect to win every game like that etc etc), and that we have never recovered from firing SBR - well, THAT bit is true, but he fails to mention the common denominator - one F. Shepherd, who both fired SBR and appointed Allardyce, so was it a brilliant piece of judgment to bring in Sam, but a disaster to fire Bobby..!!?? In my opinion, Fergie wants to mind his own business - he will try ANYTHING to wrong-foot opposing clubs who he views as possible threats, and we all saw what he did in 96, suggesting that Leeds and Forest would 'lie down' for us so we could win the title(which incensed KK so much).he has also slagged off Wenger AND Mourinho in the past if he thought he could gain some advantage, so the thought of us getting someone who just MIGHT get us back challenging them again does not look good to Fergie...!! I just hope Mort & Ashley look at all possible alternatives before making any decision - the next guy has GOT to be right...

Like who? Just curious Me too - does Barton come into this category - OR Geremi, Smith, etc. etc... see the connection..!!

I'm sure they will have taken steps in that direction by now - esp after the Wigan unrest among supporters..

Most likely option unless we lose at Stoke...

Cloughie also said that 'Football is a simple game made complicated by buffoons..' We are seeing the proof of that now....

Never a truer word spoken. Expect him to be away in Jan I reckon, if BS is still here. For the record, he's been a different keeper since his injury SA must be able to see these things if we can. Are you QUITE SURE about that..!!

Spot On - don't be as I do, be as I say....!

Has anyone read what NUFC.com's 'man in S.Korea' has said about him...!!!?

I was never happy about Geremi being made captain and couldn't see why either - it hasn't worked out and maybe we should have been warned then that Allardyce has some strange ideas.. As to the rest, IF the players whinged about being away for Christmas, they are out of line - if they were playing in Italy they would be expected to go away before every game... However, I can see why they would complain about tactics/style of play - it is clearly not working and one can only speculate that any prospective top-class signings would be put off by such rumours creeping around the game. It is beginning to look as if Allardyce's success at Bolton(if that what you want to call it..!), was a one-off, based on a group of players who were either on their way down because of age, or mediocre and had faith in his methods because they knew they wouldn't get a chance elsewhere.

I cannot believe how people on this site are arguing as to who is worse, Souness or Allardyce... For goodness' SAKE - Souness HAS GONE - END OF.. Allardyce was appointed to do a better job than any manager since SBR ; has he done that? NO.. Does he show any signs of being able to do that ? NO..(This is THE crucial point..) Are the team, despite all the changes in the Summer, better than during the past 2 seasons ? NO.. Are the fans happy ? NO.. Do they have faith in the manager ? NO.. Does this manager look/feel comfortable at SJP? NO.. Are we going to win matches against teams like Liverpool(Away), Man U(at home), or Chelsea(at home) with what is passing for Premiership football by this team ? NO.. Will this manager, and the way the team plays, be able to attract BETTER players in summer ? NO.. Are the fans prepared to wait possibly 4 years to get European Football ? NO.. Do we need better players to improve? YES.. Will the better players on the current staff start getting restless about being at a club not progressing? YES... Have we played mainly moderate to poor opposition in the first half season ? YES... Can we now get back to the point, which is ; If not Big Sam, then who..?

ONLY until May - after that, such a claim is pure defeatism..

We will NOT 'do a Villa' next season if Allardyce is still the manager - his teams have NEVER played as well as O'Neill's sides ; Villa have a few decent young players, we only have N'Zogbia and Taylor who could be classed as anything like the standard of youngster they have, and I bet they wouldn't swap Young or Agbonlahor for Zog or Martins....

Just think, if you'd have got rid of MON after the first 18 games or so, you could be going to Chelsea and hammering them. Yes, Just Think - they might have had Allardyce instead and then they WOULD have thought of getting rid of him after 18 games...!

http://www.sportinglife.com/football/premiership/news/story_get.cgi?STORY_NAME=soccer/07/12/26/SOCCER_Wigan_Quotes.html&TEAMHD=premiership 'I'm a top man in my field'..I'm afraid he won't get too many fans agreeing with THAT load of clap - he has managed Notts Co , Blackpool & the mighty Bolton, so does that back up his claim..??

Now THAT might JUST do it.......esp if there have been any more bad results.

Doubt very much whether he'll go before May, but it depends how bad things get - as long as there isn't a threat of relegation, he'll stay; if we really start going down the pan(can things get much worse!??)then anything could happen and we could end up with a caretaker situation until the summer.. All this could have been avoided if only Ashley had been able to buy SJH out earlier because I don't think that Allardyce would have been chosen.

People can speculate all they like about who would be a suitable replacement for Allardyce, but its a waste of time - Ashley and Mort will have their own ideas, and you can bet every last penny that they WON'T be holding a popular vote amongst supporters as to who that replacement should be, any more than Ashley would give his employees at Sports Direct a vote on who the next CE should be.. What they WILL undoubtedly do is to look at every possible alternative and take the advice of people in whom they trust BUT - at the end of the day they will be making the decision. They are unlikely to be making any change prior to the end of the season anyway... Lets be quite honest here - all on this site(with a couple of exceptions)will have more faith that Mort & Ashley will make a better choice for the job than their predecessor - certainly, I do, however the person chosen will not, inevitably, be welcomed by all fans.. As has been shown by this thread, there are several candidates being put forward by different people, most of whom are well-known International figures, but this does not mean that the right guy will come from that list. I believe that Newcastle IS a difficult club to manage and requires a special sort of person to do it ; many so-called top foreigners would not fit in because the club is culturally different from most other top English sides - I would say that only Liverpool comes close in that respect, but is easier for foreigners to manage there because a) it is closer to London and b) it already has a reputation worldwide. If NUFC did not have such a big support base, we would simply fall into the same category as clubs like Pompey and Brum - good, but not great , fan-base, with limited worldwide appeal, but we DO have a much bigger potential than most clubs. Given that many foreigners would be unaware of what this club COULD become, we may be looking at appointing a young and rising British manager who DOES know what could be achieved. People should remember that Shankly and Clough built great CLUBS from very small beginnings - Shanks went to Liverpool after successful stints at 2 lower league sides, Carlisle & Huddersfield ; he took over a Liverpool who were in the second Div, getting around 15,000 per game - and this was in the early 60s when crowds were decent..he left them in such a good state 13 years later, that they went on to win the European Cup because he built a CLUB, not just a team.. Likewise, Clough was given a chance at Hartlepool at the age of 29 when his career as a CF was ended by injury ; he got them promotion for the first time, went to Derby and made them into a title-winning side at a time when Liverpool were top dogs, then did the same for Forest... There WILL be someone out there who can do such a job for NUFC, but it IS a massive & unique one - sadly, I have come to the conclusion that Allardyce is not going to be the man for the job and it is beginning to look as if he knows it - I am glad I don't have to make the choice as to who the right man is, but I wouldn't rule out people like Tony Mowbray, doing a great job at WBA after starting well at Hibs ; young managers like that deserve at least an interview to see what their philosophies on the game are.. The difference between Allardyce & people like Mowbray are that Allardyce has based his past successes at Bolton & Notts Co on long-ball 'fightball' whereas Mowbray's teams play well-structured attacking football - I am sure our fans would accept a season or two of gradual progress as long as they could SEE progress being made, and were being entertained also - something that is NOT happening now... Mowbray is a NE lad too, so knows about the club's potential and fans.. What IS true, is that the Club and its supporters, deserve the best that can be obtained, both in the manager's office and on the field.

Great player with excellent skill, but too temperamental - would have him if we could sign him AND Ashton, but if it was one or the other, I would have Ashton. Over a Prem Season, he will give more to the team than Berbatov.

Excellent - and TRUE...!! About time some of those City shysters got theirs ; many people will be cursing them over the next year..

Agree with that - the long-term injury has taken the edge off him and as I have said before,he doesn't command his area as a top keeper should - not even as good as Harper at doing that... His strength was in reaction saves, but his handling of long-distance shots this season has been poor - the Barnes goal was not particularly fast, but it was reasonably well-placed but Given should have been down faster than he was.