merlin

Viduka IS undoubtedly, a class player ; his close control is excellent for a big guy and his goals record over the years has been reasonable for a player who is basically a target man. We knew he was past his best when we signed him - he is 32 next birthday and has probably travelled further than many other players over the years for Internationals with Australia, and I can tell you from personal experience(I used to travel extensively for a Tour Company)that long flights play havoc with you if you do a lot of them because of Time-Zone changes etc. His weaknesses are that he sometimes appears not to be totally interested(this has ALWAYS been the case wherever he has been), and does not have great mobility(as Shearer did) or pace(like Bellamy). Strengths ; Excellent close control, can spread play by bringing others into the game, and can hold the ball IF - IF - it is played into his feet..Scores difficult goals rather than tap-ins.. Needs a mobile, intelligent co-striker to get the best out of him, but still classed as invaluable to Australia because of his holding skills up front - the Aussies have some very good young players coming through(Burns and Zullo to mention just 2 forwards)but they need a big guy with Viduka's skills & experience up front as do NUFC...UNTIL we can prise Ashton away from the Hammers..!!

Totally agree with this. Another very poor performance rescued by two good finishes from Viduka - all this talk about ' we were all over them for 75 mins' does not wash in my opinion as there were large parts of the game when we looked disorganized and Derby played the better passing football. Much of our pressure came from the long ball/fight for knock-downs football that has been played by the side for most of this season, and that, ultimately, will NOT bring consistent success... The side looks disjointed and predictable ; many of us have been complaining about players being used out of position, and that was graphically illustrated by N'Zogbia today - once he was pushed forward late in the second half, he caused them all sorts of problems with his pace because IT WAS BEING USED IN AN AREA WHICH COULD HURT THEM and not half-way back down the field. Duff looked better than in many of his previous appearances, and he will not yet be match-fit, and Emre was the only midfielder who could produce a pass which caused their defence problems - unfortunately,he is best used as a sub for he fades if used from the start, and this really highlights what is missing from the side ; a top creative midfielder. Rozehnal has disappointed me - I honestly thought he looked a good player in early games, but his defensive weaknesses have proved costly and dangerous ; the Defence generally looks uncertain ; Barton gave away possession with a will during this game, and has not lived up to the hype about him - he wants to get his own game sorted out before moaning about our fans....! Smith was - well, Smith ; more fightball than football, but then, this IS an Allardyce team.. Credit to Viduka for rescuing the side from defeat(for that is surely where they were headed before his excellent second strike(harder than it looked, a first time volley with the outside of the foot) and this was his best game for the club in terms of involvement in the game, but our forwards look mediocre generally. To be fair, Derby have a new manager and fought hard - but that was really no excuse ; as someone on another thread has said, how long can Allardyce`paper over the cracks ? Any accusations of 'knee jerk etc' are just excuses - one day, people will let the scales drop from their eyes and see that the Emperor has got no clothes.. No-one in their right minds expects Top 4 Football but we should be getting BETTER THAN THIS BY NOW - and NO excuses.

Would swap for Martins to be honest, but I doubt even Curbishley will fall for that one...!!

Well exfuckinscuse me Sam, you big daft wallybrains but he used to, and he was pretty good out there anarl! Agreed - ask the Villa fans what they think...

He was indeed(made the best debut I've seen from a player of his age(21)joining us from a Lower div side(Bury) with the exception of Macdonald, and there was a slight difference in price - Terry Mac was 25,000 whereas Supermac was 180,000(a record at the time)... McDermott made his debut against Liverpool in 1972 at SJP and we won 2-1, although we were lucky but he was outstanding. They obviously thought so and he did the same against them in the 74 Final, although he was the only player in the side to do justice to himself - the Scousers took him 'home' later that year for 170,000 and he won loads of medals there ; strangely, for a Merseysider, his heart DOES seem to lie at SJP, but its a bit strange that he should have such a showing in the museum - he only played for us(at his peak)for 2 years and returned to help us win promotion in 84...

LOVE IT!!! its not meant to be serious, but I fear it could be if it signals that this square pegs into round holes mentality is deliberate ..... I know, I just liked the terminology I guessed that mate. I've seen players play on the "wrong" side before and do well, but only if they have pace ... Didn't Waddle end up on the opposite side to which he started? Genuine question, not a wind up. Yes. He played both sides though. Nowt against players doing this if they have the pace, but Milner hasn't, Chris Waddle had far better skills and dribbling ability than Milner too. Waddle wasn't fast. I don't remember him being that much faster than Milner tbh. He did have tremendous dribbling technique though, no doubt. FWIW I really don't think Milner has let anyone down this season. I rate him and think he gets a fair bit of unnecessary stick on here. This is true - Waddle DIDN'T have lots of pace - he DID have great ability to drop his shoulder and beat a man through that and his dribbling ability. He was also better at crossing the ball than Milner, and could bend a shot better. We haven't had a winger with REAL pace since Gillespie - Robert was quicker than he appeared to be, but not as quick as Gillespie, although he was more of a goal threat by far. Over the years, we have lacked wingers of real pace - even in the 70s,a decade which saw us field some really decent individual players, the only one with real pace was Stewart Barrowclough, who Joe Harvey signed from Barnsley as a teenager - he was really quick, but unfortunately, didn't have the football brain to go with it..played some outstanding games(seemed to really enjoy taking the Leeds defence on for some reason!)but could be incredibly mediocre. One of the best ever wing performances I ever saw was Eddie Gray for Leeds against Chelsea in the first 1970 FA Cup Final(Chelsea won the replay). Gray was absolutely terrific & tore Ron Harris(the renowned Chelsea hardman) apart - how Harris stopped himself from really whacking Gray I do not know, because he was going round in circles.. That is far back enough, but older fans reckon Mitchell did this to full-backs regularly in the 50s. There are very few players capable of doing this these days, even though they get more protection from Refs.

What happened ? We let the Lunatics run the asylum(i.e. a collection of former players who didn't have the proper background or education started coaching ability out of English players, esp when they were young...)we have never recovered since as it has become cheaper(AND easier) to buy ready-made articles from abroad. Also, English schools try to coach 'equality' into youngsters, so it has become politically incorrect to want to win or better yourself AND English kids spend too much time on computers instead of playing footie.. Parents don't want them getting hurt, or out by themselves..!!!

i disagree with the first bit - i think martins could be very effective in a 4-3-3. his pace and occasional trickery would be beneficial, and he would be able to run onto and flick ons and throughballs. he just needs to settle in the system. with owen i agree - he cimply cannot play in the pl as a lone striker, or as a wide player. on the second point i completely agree - smith simply doesn't score enough goals to be the lone striker/target man, and viduka doesn't seem to be fit enough. this position is crucial in that system, and we need another player in jan or the summer if we want to stick to it. being danish i think bendtner might cut it! One of your comments about Martins was correct - 'his OCCASIONAL trickery'... That's the problem - its TOO occasional, as is his first touch and anticipation.

Sir Les was stating that MARTINS wasn't suited to 4-3-3, not that the system was no good...

Award well-deserved - Kaka is head & shoulders better than any other player right now ; his displays against Man Ure alone were worth the award amd one of his goals against them st OT was absolutely superb play. Brazilian football at its best.

Show me just a couple of these many people please, I'd like to laugh at what else they say. I've seen it said on this(and other)fans' Websites several times over the past few years...

Martins can be abysmal all game but if he gets a goal or two he'll be forgiven. Such is the life of a striker. It's fair enough, but you can both surely see that it severely hurts the team in general on days where Martins doesn't pull out a goal from somewhere, as he contributes pretty much nothing in terms of build-up play for the rest of the team. I'd much prefer a player who scores less goals and can actually play a bit of football and improve the team with what he offers as a whole, rather than a headless chicken who scores the odd wonder goal here and there. Martins still has time to improve, but I'm really not seeing any development in his awareness sadly. OK, but it sounds to me that you're not taking into consideration that he's being player out of position. And still doing alright with it anyhow. When he's been deployed down the middle this season, he's been clinical and his movement have been much improved in comparison to last season. See the City goal for evidence of improved finishing, movement and touch. You can throw the Spurs goal in there aswell. I'm tired of people saying he's not improving, because he is. And similarly with N'Zogbia, i think it'll help his development as an all-round player being played slightly out of position, because he'll have to learn new things. Where to move, when to time his runs, how to find a goalscoring position in the box (not that he's bad at that anyway), and so on. His awareness isn't particularly great but it has and will improve over the course of the season, providing he's playing of course. I'll never say he's a headless chicken because i just don't think he is. Did you read what Sir Les said about him on Setanta ? This is on nufc.com today if you want to check... basically, he says that Martins is NOT comfortable OR suited to playing 4-3-3, and enlarges on this by saying that he is not disciplined enough to fit the system as he keeps drifting inside... This has been one of my biggest problems about Martins - he is an instinctive type of player and these`players do NOT have the right mental attitude to be a success at the top level ; every so often they will produce a moment of magic, but will then proceed to miss easy chances etc because they do not have the necessary discipline to either play within a framework or to keep a cool head when necessary - in the 70s, there was the case of Duncan Mckenzie, who had amazing skills but never reached the top even though he was given a chance in one of Leeds' best teams..there was also Stan Bowles who could undo teams like you've never seen when he felt like it, but then disappeared into obscurity because of his ill-disciplined private life... Neither Owen NOR Martins are the answer to our striker problem - for entirely different reasons. Owen gets too many injuries, but if he didn't, would be one of the top scorers in the Prem, whereas Martins just hasn't got what it takes to be a top striker . If Les`Ferdinand is prepared to say it, that's confirmation enough for me that my doubts are justified, and for all those saying that Owen doesn't fit the system, this is confirmation that neither does Martins .. . He cannot play as a target man either - too small and individualistic - may be that is why NUFC is never successful - the fans seem to prefer moments of brilliance from erratic players than a disciplined team, which is the only way to bring success. the fans in general may prefer that, but lets be honest, how many players have we had in the last 5 years capable of moments of brilliance, maybe 3 Absolutely true, but it doesn't seem to alter the basic thinking by many fans('I'd rather lose 4-3 than win 1-0 in a boring game' .... etc etc.).

What was it someone said about 'Lies,Damned Lies, and Statistics..!!?? A touch of the 'Emperor's New clothes' about his claims - we can all see how the team play.

Martins can be abysmal all game but if he gets a goal or two he'll be forgiven. Such is the life of a striker. It's fair enough, but you can both surely see that it severely hurts the team in general on days where Martins doesn't pull out a goal from somewhere, as he contributes pretty much nothing in terms of build-up play for the rest of the team. I'd much prefer a player who scores less goals and can actually play a bit of football and improve the team with what he offers as a whole, rather than a headless chicken who scores the odd wonder goal here and there. Martins still has time to improve, but I'm really not seeing any development in his awareness sadly. OK, but it sounds to me that you're not taking into consideration that he's being player out of position. And still doing alright with it anyhow. When he's been deployed down the middle this season, he's been clinical and his movement have been much improved in comparison to last season. See the City goal for evidence of improved finishing, movement and touch. You can throw the Spurs goal in there aswell. I'm tired of people saying he's not improving, because he is. And similarly with N'Zogbia, i think it'll help his development as an all-round player being played slightly out of position, because he'll have to learn new things. Where to move, when to time his runs, how to find a goalscoring position in the box (not that he's bad at that anyway), and so on. His awareness isn't particularly great but it has and will improve over the course of the season, providing he's playing of course. I'll never say he's a headless chicken because i just don't think he is. Did you read what Sir Les said about him on Setanta ? This is on nufc.com today if you want to check... basically, he says that Martins is NOT comfortable OR suited to playing 4-3-3, and enlarges on this by saying that he is not disciplined enough to fit the system as he keeps drifting inside... This has been one of my biggest problems about Martins - he is an instinctive type of player and these`players do NOT have the right mental attitude to be a success at the top level ; every so often they will produce a moment of magic, but will then proceed to miss easy chances etc because they do not have the necessary discipline to either play within a framework or to keep a cool head when necessary - in the 70s, there was the case of Duncan Mckenzie, who had amazing skills but never reached the top even though he was given a chance in one of Leeds' best teams..there was also Stan Bowles who could undo teams like you've never seen when he felt like it, but then disappeared into obscurity because of his ill-disciplined private life... Neither Owen NOR Martins are the answer to our striker problem - for entirely different reasons. Owen gets too many injuries, but if he didn't, would be one of the top scorers in the Prem, whereas Martins just hasn't got what it takes to be a top striker . If Les`Ferdinand is prepared to say it, that's confirmation enough for me that my doubts are justified, and for all those saying that Owen doesn't fit the system, this is confirmation that neither does Martins .. . He cannot play as a target man either - too small and individualistic - may be that is why NUFC is never successful - the fans seem to prefer moments of brilliance from erratic players than a disciplined team, which is the only way to bring success.

Do you really think Sammy is going to go back 442 or that is going to play 433 with only one of the front 3 a forward/striker. either way, Duff's in the team if we play 4-3-3 he's certainly going to be there, was class there for Chelsea and with Allardyce's preference for N'zogbia as LB he's also gonna start when we play 4-4-2 I wouldn't mind seeing Duff on the right and Zog on the left. The only reason FS is using Zog at LB is because Enrique has so far shown to be struggling in this league. Zog is pretty much wasted there, his attacking threat is obvious. It's early days for Enrique, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us in for another LB who is able to go straight into the team. In that case, I really disagree with FS. Zoggy has not shown that he's a better defender than Enrique. That's a laughable agreement (if it's the one Sam's making). Enrique looks more accomplished playing there than Zoggy does atm. We're also wasting Zog's attacking abilities and putting ourselves at risk because he's liable to giving the ball away carelessly. When he's further up the midfield it's alright to take those kind of risks but it's unacceptable for our LB to try to take on 3 players every time he receives the ball. Enrique has to play just because we end up having more attacking options and actually, in my opinion, become better defensively. Agree with this - don't understand all the Enrique knocking, but understand even less why Allardyce spent 6m on him and then plays Zog at LB ; Enrique CAN make it, in my view but he won't unless he is allowed to play - he hasn't made THAT many bad mistakes, can pass the ball properly , and is one of the few players who kept Arteta quiet; AND he's only 21 and just come into the Prem. Has made a far better start than the likes of Viana and Maric did... The lad NEEDS to play - we aren't going anywhere this season and he won't cost us any more points than we would lose if he wasn't in the side.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind your argument. Not taking the piss, I genuinely want to know what would make our crosses better if they came from the right side of the field (in Milner's case). The reason is that if you are right-footed, you naturally have more control over delivery of crosses, esp when on the move(which is when they SHOULD be sent in in order to wrong-foot defenders running towards their own goal) IF you are delivering from the right - likewise if you are left-footed, like Zog - the ball is best delivered into the box with your better foot(i.e. the left in his case). If you are playing out of position, the tendency is either to mis-hit the cross or deliver it into the wrong place(because you are using the weaker foot) OR to check back, turn, and try to get the ball on to your stronger foot(which Milner does all the time..!). Either way, the danger created by these type of crosses is far less than if done properly - some players are skilled enough to hit a cross in accurately with BOTH feet, but I don't think either Milner or Zog are good enough to do this. Hope that answers your question.

Robson was under contract at Barca and as a gentlemen of his word he honoured it. As for knowing van Gaal was getting his job at that point and wanting Barca to sack him - well thats the first I've heard about it. Have you got a link to back that up? You may also wonder who took the huff at the club when gullitt was appointed because no one approached SBR at that time. No, I haven't - it was in the press at the time that Barca were going to fire Robson and appoint Van Gaal, and they duly did. I knew all about the attempt to get Robson to SJP by SJH - if you read this board regularly, you will know why... As a matter of fact, several of us wanted Van Gaal ourselves - we felt that Bobby was getting on then, even though he was 64..we were wrong then, but NOT wrong in thinking he should have joined the club if he had been asked, knowing that he was likely to lose his job at Barca. It was HIS choice to stay there, and I think he was wrong, just as he was wrong to think he could still be a Prem manager at 70 or 71...I fancy Kylie, but at my age, I don't think I could do her justice, and I'm a LOT younger than Bobby...!!!

A poor game between two very mediocre sides. Was able to fast-forward large parts of the recording without missing anything worth watching. NUFC were the better in the first half, and it was about 50/50 in the second. Cacapa made a decent return to the side and the defence looked in little trouble. mainly due to Fulham's inadequacies.We got the win because of Smith's battling qualities, nothing more... Last night, I watched a good part of the Championship game between WBA & Charlton - a far better game, and both sides played better football - passing to feet, but when crosses were put into the box, the quality of them surpassed anything we usually see from Milner & N'Zogbia - probably because the players delivering them were on their preferred side of the field...!! I watched that game because I have been keeping an eye on the development of Tony Mowbray as a manager ; did a great job at Hibs(which John Collins has carried on) and is building a good side at WBA ; they are now the top scorers in all 4 leagues, incl Prem, and I can see why...Mowbray has signed a couple of players, but has organized the side so he gets the best out of the ones who were there before he arrived. Those who say we have no decent British managers apart from Fergie may have to eat their words soon - both Hughes(at Blackburn) and Mowbray are showing signs of being able to reach the top - it will be interesting to see how WBA do if they get promoted(they are currently top of the Fizzy Pop). As a North East lad, I reckon Mowbray knows all about the potential at NUFC, AND, more importantly, what the fans like to see from their team - there needs to be more improvement from what we are seeing this year if Allardyce is to convince me, and, I suspect, many others.

Exactly. The guy's a legend, but for what he did before he came to SJP. He's Ipswich's icon, not ours. Exactly right - was first asked to become manager as long ago as 1975 when we were looking to replace Joe Harvey, but refused(didn't blame him then - we were a moderate club under Westwood & Co, whilst he was building a good set-up at Ipswich). Won trophies at most of his other clubs, biggest achievement at NUFC was saving us from relegation in 99/00 and giving us CL Footbal - but Dalglish(in first season)also gave us CL Football....!!. Voted for the Academy being named after him as he was a NE lad himself, but if KK has not had a stand etc named after him, neither should SBR.

Name the Sir John Hall Stand after him What a good idea - NOT. Without Sir John, there wouldn't have been a NUFC after 1992, and no stand would have been built. Some people have short memories...

You obviously weren't watching us play, then. We were not on the right track, we had been on the right track but had left it 18 months earlier, which is when Robson should have been nicely moved to one side. He was sacked too late. You still annoy the piss out of me with your arrogance that it was Robsons time to go after only 3 years in caharge, and by whom? There was NOBODY of quality to come in and take over, again the majority of fans think they deserve better than a top 3 finish and champions league football. People on this forum, people booing in the stadium, scum like dyer and bellamy got SBR the sack. Name one successful club in the EPL that has a different manager every 3 years? OK - NONE. Now YOU name one successful club in the EPL that has a manager of 70 years of age.. The manner of Robson's sacking was appalling and ill-timed - it was done to suit members of the board who didn't want a new manager to come in during the close season(which is the right time to bring in a manager)and demand a substantial kitty for new players - they didn't want any spent at that time....you can probably guess why.... However, in the summer of 04, Robson had been at the club almost 4 years and his age was against him as was his handling of players like Dyer etc - if the situation had been handled correctly, SBR could have been made DOF or given a Directorship/Ambassadorial role AND asked to help choose his successor. There are ALWAYS Managers available at the right time and for the right job - under those circumstances, NUFC would definitely have been in that category, but after Shepherd's pathetic bungling over the next 3 years, the club became a poisoned chalice. In any case, Robson had the chance to join NUFC in 1997 after KK went, but preferred to remain at Barca, even though he knew Van Gaal was getting his job - SJH asked him to take over but he wanted Barca to sack him - Why do you think that was...!!?? Loyalty? ... He did a good job for us, but could have done a much better one had he come when first asked.. All people in Football think first & foremost about money, and its a waste of time trying to make them 'Local Heroes' just because they are from the NE - back pocket comes first.... Robson had done his job as a manager but could have still been of benefit to the club in different circumstances - definitely time for him to go, but badly handled and should have been done 4 months earlier WITHOUT comment from Shepherd.

Milner looks like a 1940s footballer, though. He's 80 years old in my book. he plays like one too. I'm a massive Milner fan. If you took a straw poll of Villa fans asking how many would want us to re-sign him in January, I reckon it would be 80 percent in favour at least. Agreed Brummie - funny how he did well at Villa but doesn't look the same player at SJP...! Anyone got any ideas why...!??

Unless there is a striker lined up for Jan you are going to have to get used to the idea, aren't you !? Once Martins departs, there is no alternative unless you want to see Smith & Viduka-when fit- playing up front.... And as for 'results of late', I don't think a draw at home, albeit to Arsenal(and Boro showed that our result wasn't exactly earth-shaking - they did better against Arsenal than we did, both in playing terns AND result), and a last-minute win over Brum are signs that we can now be choosy about leaving the likes of Owen out of the team when fit...unless we get a result at Fulham, there will be MORE agonizing this week.. Until we are in a position to sign a REALLY decent striker, Owen will remain the best bet for goals that we have - INCLUDING Martins - if he is fit ; Like it or lump it.

It was the promotion season of 92-93 - we had just come off an 11 game winning run, finishing with the win at Joker Park the previous week...ironically, it was AT Grimsby, in May the following year, that we clinched promotion with a 2-0 win ; Andy Cole got the first, just after half-time and Ned Kelly clinched it on around 85 mins - one of the best nights supporting NUFC I've ever had ; was lucky enough to get into the Directors' Box at Blundell Park, we were all going berserk when Ned scored. KK had a bucket of water chucked over him by Ned afterwards - always wondered if that was why he let Ned go to Wolves after the season ended(just joking !).

Pele Maradona Di Stefano