merlin

Martins can be abysmal all game but if he gets a goal or two he'll be forgiven. Such is the life of a striker. It's fair enough, but you can both surely see that it severely hurts the team in general on days where Martins doesn't pull out a goal from somewhere, as he contributes pretty much nothing in terms of build-up play for the rest of the team. I'd much prefer a player who scores less goals and can actually play a bit of football and improve the team with what he offers as a whole, rather than a headless chicken who scores the odd wonder goal here and there. Martins still has time to improve, but I'm really not seeing any development in his awareness sadly. OK, but it sounds to me that you're not taking into consideration that he's being player out of position. And still doing alright with it anyhow. When he's been deployed down the middle this season, he's been clinical and his movement have been much improved in comparison to last season. See the City goal for evidence of improved finishing, movement and touch. You can throw the Spurs goal in there aswell. I'm tired of people saying he's not improving, because he is. And similarly with N'Zogbia, i think it'll help his development as an all-round player being played slightly out of position, because he'll have to learn new things. Where to move, when to time his runs, how to find a goalscoring position in the box (not that he's bad at that anyway), and so on. His awareness isn't particularly great but it has and will improve over the course of the season, providing he's playing of course. I'll never say he's a headless chicken because i just don't think he is. Did you read what Sir Les said about him on Setanta ? This is on nufc.com today if you want to check... basically, he says that Martins is NOT comfortable OR suited to playing 4-3-3, and enlarges on this by saying that he is not disciplined enough to fit the system as he keeps drifting inside... This has been one of my biggest problems about Martins - he is an instinctive type of player and these`players do NOT have the right mental attitude to be a success at the top level ; every so often they will produce a moment of magic, but will then proceed to miss easy chances etc because they do not have the necessary discipline to either play within a framework or to keep a cool head when necessary - in the 70s, there was the case of Duncan Mckenzie, who had amazing skills but never reached the top even though he was given a chance in one of Leeds' best teams..there was also Stan Bowles who could undo teams like you've never seen when he felt like it, but then disappeared into obscurity because of his ill-disciplined private life... Neither Owen NOR Martins are the answer to our striker problem - for entirely different reasons. Owen gets too many injuries, but if he didn't, would be one of the top scorers in the Prem, whereas Martins just hasn't got what it takes to be a top striker . If Les`Ferdinand is prepared to say it, that's confirmation enough for me that my doubts are justified, and for all those saying that Owen doesn't fit the system, this is confirmation that neither does Martins .. . He cannot play as a target man either - too small and individualistic - may be that is why NUFC is never successful - the fans seem to prefer moments of brilliance from erratic players than a disciplined team, which is the only way to bring success.

Do you really think Sammy is going to go back 442 or that is going to play 433 with only one of the front 3 a forward/striker. either way, Duff's in the team if we play 4-3-3 he's certainly going to be there, was class there for Chelsea and with Allardyce's preference for N'zogbia as LB he's also gonna start when we play 4-4-2 I wouldn't mind seeing Duff on the right and Zog on the left. The only reason FS is using Zog at LB is because Enrique has so far shown to be struggling in this league. Zog is pretty much wasted there, his attacking threat is obvious. It's early days for Enrique, but I wouldn't be surprised to see us in for another LB who is able to go straight into the team. In that case, I really disagree with FS. Zoggy has not shown that he's a better defender than Enrique. That's a laughable agreement (if it's the one Sam's making). Enrique looks more accomplished playing there than Zoggy does atm. We're also wasting Zog's attacking abilities and putting ourselves at risk because he's liable to giving the ball away carelessly. When he's further up the midfield it's alright to take those kind of risks but it's unacceptable for our LB to try to take on 3 players every time he receives the ball. Enrique has to play just because we end up having more attacking options and actually, in my opinion, become better defensively. Agree with this - don't understand all the Enrique knocking, but understand even less why Allardyce spent 6m on him and then plays Zog at LB ; Enrique CAN make it, in my view but he won't unless he is allowed to play - he hasn't made THAT many bad mistakes, can pass the ball properly , and is one of the few players who kept Arteta quiet; AND he's only 21 and just come into the Prem. Has made a far better start than the likes of Viana and Maric did... The lad NEEDS to play - we aren't going anywhere this season and he won't cost us any more points than we would lose if he wasn't in the side.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd like to hear the reasoning behind your argument. Not taking the piss, I genuinely want to know what would make our crosses better if they came from the right side of the field (in Milner's case). The reason is that if you are right-footed, you naturally have more control over delivery of crosses, esp when on the move(which is when they SHOULD be sent in in order to wrong-foot defenders running towards their own goal) IF you are delivering from the right - likewise if you are left-footed, like Zog - the ball is best delivered into the box with your better foot(i.e. the left in his case). If you are playing out of position, the tendency is either to mis-hit the cross or deliver it into the wrong place(because you are using the weaker foot) OR to check back, turn, and try to get the ball on to your stronger foot(which Milner does all the time..!). Either way, the danger created by these type of crosses is far less than if done properly - some players are skilled enough to hit a cross in accurately with BOTH feet, but I don't think either Milner or Zog are good enough to do this. Hope that answers your question.

Robson was under contract at Barca and as a gentlemen of his word he honoured it. As for knowing van Gaal was getting his job at that point and wanting Barca to sack him - well thats the first I've heard about it. Have you got a link to back that up? You may also wonder who took the huff at the club when gullitt was appointed because no one approached SBR at that time. No, I haven't - it was in the press at the time that Barca were going to fire Robson and appoint Van Gaal, and they duly did. I knew all about the attempt to get Robson to SJP by SJH - if you read this board regularly, you will know why... As a matter of fact, several of us wanted Van Gaal ourselves - we felt that Bobby was getting on then, even though he was 64..we were wrong then, but NOT wrong in thinking he should have joined the club if he had been asked, knowing that he was likely to lose his job at Barca. It was HIS choice to stay there, and I think he was wrong, just as he was wrong to think he could still be a Prem manager at 70 or 71...I fancy Kylie, but at my age, I don't think I could do her justice, and I'm a LOT younger than Bobby...!!!

A poor game between two very mediocre sides. Was able to fast-forward large parts of the recording without missing anything worth watching. NUFC were the better in the first half, and it was about 50/50 in the second. Cacapa made a decent return to the side and the defence looked in little trouble. mainly due to Fulham's inadequacies.We got the win because of Smith's battling qualities, nothing more... Last night, I watched a good part of the Championship game between WBA & Charlton - a far better game, and both sides played better football - passing to feet, but when crosses were put into the box, the quality of them surpassed anything we usually see from Milner & N'Zogbia - probably because the players delivering them were on their preferred side of the field...!! I watched that game because I have been keeping an eye on the development of Tony Mowbray as a manager ; did a great job at Hibs(which John Collins has carried on) and is building a good side at WBA ; they are now the top scorers in all 4 leagues, incl Prem, and I can see why...Mowbray has signed a couple of players, but has organized the side so he gets the best out of the ones who were there before he arrived. Those who say we have no decent British managers apart from Fergie may have to eat their words soon - both Hughes(at Blackburn) and Mowbray are showing signs of being able to reach the top - it will be interesting to see how WBA do if they get promoted(they are currently top of the Fizzy Pop). As a North East lad, I reckon Mowbray knows all about the potential at NUFC, AND, more importantly, what the fans like to see from their team - there needs to be more improvement from what we are seeing this year if Allardyce is to convince me, and, I suspect, many others.

Exactly. The guy's a legend, but for what he did before he came to SJP. He's Ipswich's icon, not ours. Exactly right - was first asked to become manager as long ago as 1975 when we were looking to replace Joe Harvey, but refused(didn't blame him then - we were a moderate club under Westwood & Co, whilst he was building a good set-up at Ipswich). Won trophies at most of his other clubs, biggest achievement at NUFC was saving us from relegation in 99/00 and giving us CL Footbal - but Dalglish(in first season)also gave us CL Football....!!. Voted for the Academy being named after him as he was a NE lad himself, but if KK has not had a stand etc named after him, neither should SBR.

Name the Sir John Hall Stand after him What a good idea - NOT. Without Sir John, there wouldn't have been a NUFC after 1992, and no stand would have been built. Some people have short memories...

You obviously weren't watching us play, then. We were not on the right track, we had been on the right track but had left it 18 months earlier, which is when Robson should have been nicely moved to one side. He was sacked too late. You still annoy the piss out of me with your arrogance that it was Robsons time to go after only 3 years in caharge, and by whom? There was NOBODY of quality to come in and take over, again the majority of fans think they deserve better than a top 3 finish and champions league football. People on this forum, people booing in the stadium, scum like dyer and bellamy got SBR the sack. Name one successful club in the EPL that has a different manager every 3 years? OK - NONE. Now YOU name one successful club in the EPL that has a manager of 70 years of age.. The manner of Robson's sacking was appalling and ill-timed - it was done to suit members of the board who didn't want a new manager to come in during the close season(which is the right time to bring in a manager)and demand a substantial kitty for new players - they didn't want any spent at that time....you can probably guess why.... However, in the summer of 04, Robson had been at the club almost 4 years and his age was against him as was his handling of players like Dyer etc - if the situation had been handled correctly, SBR could have been made DOF or given a Directorship/Ambassadorial role AND asked to help choose his successor. There are ALWAYS Managers available at the right time and for the right job - under those circumstances, NUFC would definitely have been in that category, but after Shepherd's pathetic bungling over the next 3 years, the club became a poisoned chalice. In any case, Robson had the chance to join NUFC in 1997 after KK went, but preferred to remain at Barca, even though he knew Van Gaal was getting his job - SJH asked him to take over but he wanted Barca to sack him - Why do you think that was...!!?? Loyalty? ... He did a good job for us, but could have done a much better one had he come when first asked.. All people in Football think first & foremost about money, and its a waste of time trying to make them 'Local Heroes' just because they are from the NE - back pocket comes first.... Robson had done his job as a manager but could have still been of benefit to the club in different circumstances - definitely time for him to go, but badly handled and should have been done 4 months earlier WITHOUT comment from Shepherd.

Milner looks like a 1940s footballer, though. He's 80 years old in my book. he plays like one too. I'm a massive Milner fan. If you took a straw poll of Villa fans asking how many would want us to re-sign him in January, I reckon it would be 80 percent in favour at least. Agreed Brummie - funny how he did well at Villa but doesn't look the same player at SJP...! Anyone got any ideas why...!??

Unless there is a striker lined up for Jan you are going to have to get used to the idea, aren't you !? Once Martins departs, there is no alternative unless you want to see Smith & Viduka-when fit- playing up front.... And as for 'results of late', I don't think a draw at home, albeit to Arsenal(and Boro showed that our result wasn't exactly earth-shaking - they did better against Arsenal than we did, both in playing terns AND result), and a last-minute win over Brum are signs that we can now be choosy about leaving the likes of Owen out of the team when fit...unless we get a result at Fulham, there will be MORE agonizing this week.. Until we are in a position to sign a REALLY decent striker, Owen will remain the best bet for goals that we have - INCLUDING Martins - if he is fit ; Like it or lump it.

It was the promotion season of 92-93 - we had just come off an 11 game winning run, finishing with the win at Joker Park the previous week...ironically, it was AT Grimsby, in May the following year, that we clinched promotion with a 2-0 win ; Andy Cole got the first, just after half-time and Ned Kelly clinched it on around 85 mins - one of the best nights supporting NUFC I've ever had ; was lucky enough to get into the Directors' Box at Blundell Park, we were all going berserk when Ned scored. KK had a bucket of water chucked over him by Ned afterwards - always wondered if that was why he let Ned go to Wolves after the season ended(just joking !).

Pele Maradona Di Stefano

You can be sure of one thing - Ashley(and Mort)are far too shrewd to simply fire Allardyce without having a fall-back plan - and that will have included taking advice from the best people in the game they can get hold of...they may even have come to the conclusion that they should hang on until the person they want is available, but if results continue to go badly AFTER Weds, they may have no choice about waiting. We are not now in the reactive, panic-stricken hands of Shepherd & Co - these guys we have now are serious businessmen and professionals, so I will be surprised if they have not already come to a plan of action after much discussion with people who will know what is happening in the game. As I have said before, they inherited the situation - as Mick said earlier, had they been in charge earlier, we may not have been running this thread now because they almost certainly would have appointed someone else of their own choosing ; as it is, they are faced with a problem and they have to address it as they see fit... Ashley being the type of go-getter he undoubtedly is - and with a chance-taking streak which has served him well so far - you cannot rule out the fact that he may be tempted to act sooner rather than later, but I still reckon he & Mort will weigh everything up before doing anything. If, though, they are NOT convinced by Allardyce, I cannot see him getting serious funds in Jan ... As for any replacement, it is always a gamble unless someone of the highest calibre as available and wishes to take the job - and THAT is the biggest question of all. Given the choice, I would pick Hiddink who is proven at all levels, great with players, and a supreme organizer, plus he speaks excellent English. We may drop lucky with Shearer(perhaps in tandem with Houllier & Rob Lee),but there are no guarantees. Whatever happens, the season is virtually a write-off anyway.

Oh you poor martyrs. Saints should be made of all of you Wrapping yourself in this protective blanket of depressed rationalization, the "I've suffered as a fan so anything I do is in order" mentality ... it's just pathetic. This thread is cringeworthy. 'Doubting Thomas?' - grow up son ; you just sound about 13.....YOU are the one who is cringeworthy.

I wonder if all who have defended him on here will be just as keen to do so when, like those of us who have witnessed nearly 40 years of failure to win anything, a similar incident happens in around 20 years' time and yet another overpaid prima donna is trying to put the blame for the club's failings on its long-suffering fans... All this misplaced loyalty will disappear like snow in June...!

No - reckon it would take defeat against Brum and Fulham to force Mort's hand, esp if the performances were crap.

Barton's comments are crass & self-satisfied(AS IF he has anything to be self-satisfied about!). These players have an inflated opinion of themselves - setting himself up in judgment of the fans when he has blotted his own copybook on innumerable occasions - merely shows how out-of-touch the whole of football is becoming in its relations with the grass-roots fans. We owe them NOTHING - they get ridiculously well-paid to do something they should enjoy doing and keep fit doing it, whilst many people(and this will increase over the next year)struggle to pay their mortgages.... This article smacks of a Siege-mentality , not surprising to me as Football in general does react this way when criticised, and these players deserve criticism... Much of the blame for NUFC's performances are , in most people's opinion, the fault of the manager and his tinkering with tactics and players' positions in the side but the players cannot be immune from accepting their share of the blame. I sympathize with them to the extent that they are being messed about, but the last thing any of them should do is to lay the blame at the fans'door for having a go at their poor performances ; fans are , at the end of the day, CUSTOMERS and customers have a right to complain about sub-standard service or product - and that is EXACTLY what they have been presented with over the past month or so. As for assertions about ' impatience' and 'fickleness', I will never accept these comments about NUFC fans from those who have not been part of the fanbase themselves - other clubs supporters will come out with this stuff for 2 reasons; 1.They know how big Newcastle's fan base is, and they are frightened that we ever reach our potential as a club, or 2. They wish to destroy the fans' belief in their club's potential. People like Barton are simply mercenaries, paid to do a job and with no link to NUFC other than that. Would Alan Shearer come out and say this? Absolutely NOT, unless the fans had booed the team/manager after the first game at home against Villa, when accusations of impatience would have been warranted. Shearer, because he knows the club's history, knows EXACTLY why the fans are getting fed-up with what is happening - its because they have seen it all too often before, AND they see other clubs leaving us behind. IF Shearer does take over at some stage, I wouldn't imagine Mr Barton will be a Newcastle player for very long, and he may not be WHOEVER comes in if Allardyce goes. The comments about Kluivert are simply stupid and reflect his ignorance.

And how many on this site who rubbish O'Neill as 'second-rate' STILL believe that ? I said last year that this season would see a vast improvement at Villa and so it has proved... Whether you like it or not, O'Neill is a really good manager and time will prove that to be the case. All those who preferred Allardyce(or anyone else of similar ilk)must be having a talk with themselves right now - if not, they SHOULD be... What happens if we go to Blackburn and get thumped ? Will you STILL continue to sneer at O'Neill !?? Point out my sneering at O'Neill please? I dont give a toss abt them,all I cared abt was that it might affect Blackburn because we are playing them next! That wasn't aimed particularly at you - there have been many MON detractors on the site and by now they are probably beginning to see the error of their ways, although I wouldn't bet on it. The comments were made to draw attention to the fact that Villa's form this season disproves their theories about MON...even given another year, can anyone seriously believe that we will have a similar run of away results with such high scores, in a team run by Allardyce..?

And how many on this site who rubbish O'Neill as 'second-rate' STILL believe that ? I said last year that this season would see a vast improvement at Villa and so it has proved... Whether you like it or not, O'Neill is a really good manager and time will prove that to be the case. All those who preferred Allardyce(or anyone else of similar ilk)must be having a talk with themselves right now - if not, they SHOULD be... What happens if we go to Blackburn and get thumped ? Will you STILL continue to sneer at O'Neill !??

If he wants Silverware he had better apply for a transfer OR - join a Bank Raid.. The only Silverware likely at SJP in the foreseeable future is the Northumberland Senior Cup ; that is, if Blyth have an off-day..!!

Enrique dropped ? What for ? He didn't have a great game on Sat, but he was far from the worst player in a B & W shirt... Just another reason to keep playing N'Zog at LB UNLESS we are going to be really spoilt and have Carr there..Wunderbar....!!!!

It is quite amazing to see how many people think things are better than they actually are - how on earth can ANYONE not be concerned about the situation the club is in ? As NE5 says, the post from Delima saying that we are 'comfortable in mid-table' is the best example of complacency I have heard since Nero got his fiddle out in the middle of a rather large fire....!! We have just taken ONE - yes, that's right - ONE POINT out of 4 games, two of which we should have been capable of winning, and the game against Pompey should have produced at least another point, regardless of their spending - WE WERE AT HOME,and they are not Liverpool, Man U etc etc.... SO - one point from poss 12, games against Blackburn and Arsenal to come followed by the likes of Brum and Wigan away(now much better); Can you honestly expect to go into any of these games with confidence after seeing the body-language and obvious lack of belief shown by the players in recent games Some people will believe anything - talk about the 'King's new Clothes ' - unless things get turned around, starting at Blackburn, we are heading into a relegation battle, and those of us who have seen it know the signs only too well..the first ones are already apparent so forget complacency - we are in a tight spot - VERY tight..

If keeping him until the summer brought a better manager in then I'd go with it, I'd rather do that if it avoided making the wrong decision now as long as we're in no danger of relegation. Agreed Mick - the only trouble is that on current form, we will have serious problems keeping clear of the relegation pack ; lose the next 3 games and we could be well & truly in it... I think that, realistically, Allardyce needs at least a point from the next 2 games - anything less will see the vultures gathering and to be honest, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there hasn't already been a great deal of agonizing between Ashley & Mort about what to do next.... It would be unrealistic not to imagine that they may already have started on a contingency plan...

This thread is like being asked if the last toothache you had was worse than the one before....!! There are just different degrees of pain, but its STILL pain...

Totally agree - is the only defender who can USUALLY pass the ball properly.