merlin

You obviously weren't watching us play, then. We were not on the right track, we had been on the right track but had left it 18 months earlier, which is when Robson should have been nicely moved to one side. He was sacked too late. You still annoy the piss out of me with your arrogance that it was Robsons time to go after only 3 years in caharge, and by whom? There was NOBODY of quality to come in and take over, again the majority of fans think they deserve better than a top 3 finish and champions league football. People on this forum, people booing in the stadium, scum like dyer and bellamy got SBR the sack. Name one successful club in the EPL that has a different manager every 3 years? OK - NONE. Now YOU name one successful club in the EPL that has a manager of 70 years of age.. The manner of Robson's sacking was appalling and ill-timed - it was done to suit members of the board who didn't want a new manager to come in during the close season(which is the right time to bring in a manager)and demand a substantial kitty for new players - they didn't want any spent at that time....you can probably guess why.... However, in the summer of 04, Robson had been at the club almost 4 years and his age was against him as was his handling of players like Dyer etc - if the situation had been handled correctly, SBR could have been made DOF or given a Directorship/Ambassadorial role AND asked to help choose his successor. There are ALWAYS Managers available at the right time and for the right job - under those circumstances, NUFC would definitely have been in that category, but after Shepherd's pathetic bungling over the next 3 years, the club became a poisoned chalice. In any case, Robson had the chance to join NUFC in 1997 after KK went, but preferred to remain at Barca, even though he knew Van Gaal was getting his job - SJH asked him to take over but he wanted Barca to sack him - Why do you think that was...!!?? Loyalty? ... He did a good job for us, but could have done a much better one had he come when first asked.. All people in Football think first & foremost about money, and its a waste of time trying to make them 'Local Heroes' just because they are from the NE - back pocket comes first.... Robson had done his job as a manager but could have still been of benefit to the club in different circumstances - definitely time for him to go, but badly handled and should have been done 4 months earlier WITHOUT comment from Shepherd.

Milner looks like a 1940s footballer, though. He's 80 years old in my book. he plays like one too. I'm a massive Milner fan. If you took a straw poll of Villa fans asking how many would want us to re-sign him in January, I reckon it would be 80 percent in favour at least. Agreed Brummie - funny how he did well at Villa but doesn't look the same player at SJP...! Anyone got any ideas why...!??

Unless there is a striker lined up for Jan you are going to have to get used to the idea, aren't you !? Once Martins departs, there is no alternative unless you want to see Smith & Viduka-when fit- playing up front.... And as for 'results of late', I don't think a draw at home, albeit to Arsenal(and Boro showed that our result wasn't exactly earth-shaking - they did better against Arsenal than we did, both in playing terns AND result), and a last-minute win over Brum are signs that we can now be choosy about leaving the likes of Owen out of the team when fit...unless we get a result at Fulham, there will be MORE agonizing this week.. Until we are in a position to sign a REALLY decent striker, Owen will remain the best bet for goals that we have - INCLUDING Martins - if he is fit ; Like it or lump it.

It was the promotion season of 92-93 - we had just come off an 11 game winning run, finishing with the win at Joker Park the previous week...ironically, it was AT Grimsby, in May the following year, that we clinched promotion with a 2-0 win ; Andy Cole got the first, just after half-time and Ned Kelly clinched it on around 85 mins - one of the best nights supporting NUFC I've ever had ; was lucky enough to get into the Directors' Box at Blundell Park, we were all going berserk when Ned scored. KK had a bucket of water chucked over him by Ned afterwards - always wondered if that was why he let Ned go to Wolves after the season ended(just joking !).

Pele Maradona Di Stefano

You can be sure of one thing - Ashley(and Mort)are far too shrewd to simply fire Allardyce without having a fall-back plan - and that will have included taking advice from the best people in the game they can get hold of...they may even have come to the conclusion that they should hang on until the person they want is available, but if results continue to go badly AFTER Weds, they may have no choice about waiting. We are not now in the reactive, panic-stricken hands of Shepherd & Co - these guys we have now are serious businessmen and professionals, so I will be surprised if they have not already come to a plan of action after much discussion with people who will know what is happening in the game. As I have said before, they inherited the situation - as Mick said earlier, had they been in charge earlier, we may not have been running this thread now because they almost certainly would have appointed someone else of their own choosing ; as it is, they are faced with a problem and they have to address it as they see fit... Ashley being the type of go-getter he undoubtedly is - and with a chance-taking streak which has served him well so far - you cannot rule out the fact that he may be tempted to act sooner rather than later, but I still reckon he & Mort will weigh everything up before doing anything. If, though, they are NOT convinced by Allardyce, I cannot see him getting serious funds in Jan ... As for any replacement, it is always a gamble unless someone of the highest calibre as available and wishes to take the job - and THAT is the biggest question of all. Given the choice, I would pick Hiddink who is proven at all levels, great with players, and a supreme organizer, plus he speaks excellent English. We may drop lucky with Shearer(perhaps in tandem with Houllier & Rob Lee),but there are no guarantees. Whatever happens, the season is virtually a write-off anyway.

Oh you poor martyrs. Saints should be made of all of you Wrapping yourself in this protective blanket of depressed rationalization, the "I've suffered as a fan so anything I do is in order" mentality ... it's just pathetic. This thread is cringeworthy. 'Doubting Thomas?' - grow up son ; you just sound about 13.....YOU are the one who is cringeworthy.

I wonder if all who have defended him on here will be just as keen to do so when, like those of us who have witnessed nearly 40 years of failure to win anything, a similar incident happens in around 20 years' time and yet another overpaid prima donna is trying to put the blame for the club's failings on its long-suffering fans... All this misplaced loyalty will disappear like snow in June...!

No - reckon it would take defeat against Brum and Fulham to force Mort's hand, esp if the performances were crap.

Barton's comments are crass & self-satisfied(AS IF he has anything to be self-satisfied about!). These players have an inflated opinion of themselves - setting himself up in judgment of the fans when he has blotted his own copybook on innumerable occasions - merely shows how out-of-touch the whole of football is becoming in its relations with the grass-roots fans. We owe them NOTHING - they get ridiculously well-paid to do something they should enjoy doing and keep fit doing it, whilst many people(and this will increase over the next year)struggle to pay their mortgages.... This article smacks of a Siege-mentality , not surprising to me as Football in general does react this way when criticised, and these players deserve criticism... Much of the blame for NUFC's performances are , in most people's opinion, the fault of the manager and his tinkering with tactics and players' positions in the side but the players cannot be immune from accepting their share of the blame. I sympathize with them to the extent that they are being messed about, but the last thing any of them should do is to lay the blame at the fans'door for having a go at their poor performances ; fans are , at the end of the day, CUSTOMERS and customers have a right to complain about sub-standard service or product - and that is EXACTLY what they have been presented with over the past month or so. As for assertions about ' impatience' and 'fickleness', I will never accept these comments about NUFC fans from those who have not been part of the fanbase themselves - other clubs supporters will come out with this stuff for 2 reasons; 1.They know how big Newcastle's fan base is, and they are frightened that we ever reach our potential as a club, or 2. They wish to destroy the fans' belief in their club's potential. People like Barton are simply mercenaries, paid to do a job and with no link to NUFC other than that. Would Alan Shearer come out and say this? Absolutely NOT, unless the fans had booed the team/manager after the first game at home against Villa, when accusations of impatience would have been warranted. Shearer, because he knows the club's history, knows EXACTLY why the fans are getting fed-up with what is happening - its because they have seen it all too often before, AND they see other clubs leaving us behind. IF Shearer does take over at some stage, I wouldn't imagine Mr Barton will be a Newcastle player for very long, and he may not be WHOEVER comes in if Allardyce goes. The comments about Kluivert are simply stupid and reflect his ignorance.

And how many on this site who rubbish O'Neill as 'second-rate' STILL believe that ? I said last year that this season would see a vast improvement at Villa and so it has proved... Whether you like it or not, O'Neill is a really good manager and time will prove that to be the case. All those who preferred Allardyce(or anyone else of similar ilk)must be having a talk with themselves right now - if not, they SHOULD be... What happens if we go to Blackburn and get thumped ? Will you STILL continue to sneer at O'Neill !?? Point out my sneering at O'Neill please? I dont give a toss abt them,all I cared abt was that it might affect Blackburn because we are playing them next! That wasn't aimed particularly at you - there have been many MON detractors on the site and by now they are probably beginning to see the error of their ways, although I wouldn't bet on it. The comments were made to draw attention to the fact that Villa's form this season disproves their theories about MON...even given another year, can anyone seriously believe that we will have a similar run of away results with such high scores, in a team run by Allardyce..?

And how many on this site who rubbish O'Neill as 'second-rate' STILL believe that ? I said last year that this season would see a vast improvement at Villa and so it has proved... Whether you like it or not, O'Neill is a really good manager and time will prove that to be the case. All those who preferred Allardyce(or anyone else of similar ilk)must be having a talk with themselves right now - if not, they SHOULD be... What happens if we go to Blackburn and get thumped ? Will you STILL continue to sneer at O'Neill !??

If he wants Silverware he had better apply for a transfer OR - join a Bank Raid.. The only Silverware likely at SJP in the foreseeable future is the Northumberland Senior Cup ; that is, if Blyth have an off-day..!!

Enrique dropped ? What for ? He didn't have a great game on Sat, but he was far from the worst player in a B & W shirt... Just another reason to keep playing N'Zog at LB UNLESS we are going to be really spoilt and have Carr there..Wunderbar....!!!!

It is quite amazing to see how many people think things are better than they actually are - how on earth can ANYONE not be concerned about the situation the club is in ? As NE5 says, the post from Delima saying that we are 'comfortable in mid-table' is the best example of complacency I have heard since Nero got his fiddle out in the middle of a rather large fire....!! We have just taken ONE - yes, that's right - ONE POINT out of 4 games, two of which we should have been capable of winning, and the game against Pompey should have produced at least another point, regardless of their spending - WE WERE AT HOME,and they are not Liverpool, Man U etc etc.... SO - one point from poss 12, games against Blackburn and Arsenal to come followed by the likes of Brum and Wigan away(now much better); Can you honestly expect to go into any of these games with confidence after seeing the body-language and obvious lack of belief shown by the players in recent games Some people will believe anything - talk about the 'King's new Clothes ' - unless things get turned around, starting at Blackburn, we are heading into a relegation battle, and those of us who have seen it know the signs only too well..the first ones are already apparent so forget complacency - we are in a tight spot - VERY tight..

If keeping him until the summer brought a better manager in then I'd go with it, I'd rather do that if it avoided making the wrong decision now as long as we're in no danger of relegation. Agreed Mick - the only trouble is that on current form, we will have serious problems keeping clear of the relegation pack ; lose the next 3 games and we could be well & truly in it... I think that, realistically, Allardyce needs at least a point from the next 2 games - anything less will see the vultures gathering and to be honest, I wouldn't be at all surprised if there hasn't already been a great deal of agonizing between Ashley & Mort about what to do next.... It would be unrealistic not to imagine that they may already have started on a contingency plan...

This thread is like being asked if the last toothache you had was worse than the one before....!! There are just different degrees of pain, but its STILL pain...

Totally agree - is the only defender who can USUALLY pass the ball properly.

There are rights & wrongs about both sides of this discussion, but the main issue is surely this ;- IF the players are up in arms about the training/tactics etc., why is it only at NUFC that all this appears to be a major crisis when a new manager is appointed ? Why has there been no unrest at Spurs, for example ? Ramos is apparently a hard driver of his players, but there doesn't appear to be a crisis there...maybe the Spurs players have more faith in Ramos' methods than the NUFC players appear to have in Allardyce's ; is that his fault or theirs!!?? What do YOU think after watching the displays we have seen....?? There is no excuse for laziness amongst the players, and I for one would fully back any manager who was trying to get more out of them, BUT - I wouldn't if the effort was being channelled in the wrong direction.. Nothing he has said can excuse playing players out of position, or being used in a style that doesn't get the best from them.

I have seen many NUFC v Liverpool games since 1968, and although we have been beaten several times by them before, this is undoubtedly the WORST display by a Newcastle side v L/Pool in all that time esp as it was at SJP. Even the 4-0 loss at Anfield in the FA Cup in 1984 wasn't as big a disgrace as this performance... We could have lost by at least 6. Obviously, 2 major factors have affected this - they are now a whole league better than us and we have gone so far back as a club in the past 4 years that people are now expecting us to lose at home to them. Whilst I anticipated a defeat, the manner of this performance was appalling - lack of spirit and cohesion from the players, bad tactics and selections(once again) from the manager and the general impression that nobody knows what they are doing, either on or off the field. Liverpool out-passed and out-classed us to a degree which was a total embarrassment to all NUFC fans. They have some better players, but the main difference was the excellent passing and movement of their side compared to ours - however much they have spent does NOT make them a 5 times better side than we are potentially, and that was what they looked today - or, rather, what we MADE them look. Had we given a decent display and lost by, say 2-1, no-one would have complained but this was dire. As has been said, we are in a very tough spot indeed now - unless there is someone of top quality who is prepared to join the club, we have no option but to stick with the current manager UNLESS this continues for a few weeks more ,when relegation would threaten and neither the club nor Ashley can afford THAT.. It almost looks as if the club are being put in the position of HAVING to sack the manager - why would that be, do you think..!! Morale among both team & fans is obviously at rock-bottom and this situation cannot continue for long but the options are very limited. This is as tough a situation we have faced since Gullit committed professional suicide in 1999, but this time, there is no-one of the calibre of SBR waiting in the wings. As McDermott said after we blew the title in 1996 ; 'sometimes, I think the club is cursed.."

Even Clough started at Hartlepool and I think the best managers will do well at any level - Fergie was successful at Aberdeen, and knocking the Old Firm off their perch is a tough job in Scotland. Strangely, I can see why Shearer has a decent chance of success with England - I always thought he was a far better bet for managership than someone like, say , Beardsley - but if he doesn't get the England job I would like to see him succeed at a smaller club before returning to SJP...both he AND the club need a decent break from each other, but that doesn't mean I think the current incumbent is the man for the job at NUFC - not for the long term anyway.

Back in 1992, just after SJH had fully taken over at SJP, the Magpie Group were invited to lunch in order to meet KK and McDermott ; I was sat next to KK at lunch, and asked him, as someone who had played in Germany, what the main difference between English & German players was.. KK told me that the Germans were prepared to come back in afternoons VOLUNTARILY and work at their own weaknesses, whereas modern English players had to be compelled or they would go to play golf, see to their respective businesses(if they had one)etc, etc. In other words, most(not all)English players only wanted to train for half a day and clear off for the rest.. As players go on to be coaches/managers, maybe this is why this attitude is so common - it is passed on down the line(PLUS - the Players' Union has too much power, and the players are too well-paid). However, in the case of the current England team, the manager was clearly never up to the job and should not have had it in the first place.

I agree with you. He's seeing out his retirement playing fat knackers in California. If we're turning to him in moments of need, then we really are f*****. I know his cross for Crouch was excellent yesterday, but I don't care, he should have stayed dropped when McClown dropped him in the first place. The worst thing last night was the level of desperation in general. It was desperate. Desperate. Bang on. blueyes.gif Thing is, he's now stuck on 99 caps.... I'm with you guys - Beckham should have been dropped from the squad in 2004 after his disastrous Euro Championships display in Portugal. He is grossly over-rated as an England skipper and also now, as a player. McClown picked him again because of Press pressure and showed himself to be weak,, There is a hell of a job waiting for whoever gets the England job - its all gone to hell in a handcart...

he was also assistant or head coach or something when Jim Smith was here, I think That is correct - also, Heath once had a bitter exchange with some NUFC fans when he was at either Everton or Stoke as a player ; they goaded him at a corner, and he said they were crap fans, NUFC was a crap club, and we deserved to be relegated....wonder if he still thinks that, esp as he was at the Mackems for a while..!!??

Don't agree mate. If you look at previous decades at short periods when the England team has been decent there has been a spine of genuine class players. We don't have that right now. If I can be bothered I may look up some team selections during periods when we weren't bad, but just looking at '66 through to '70 I'm talking players of the calibre of Banks, Moore, Charlton etc. We just don't have that level of comparative quality these days. Even going back to 1990, the team then had players like Beardsley, Waddle, Lineker, Pearce, Shilton, Gazza, Walker, Platt.....all of which would be in the England team now, yes I'd put Beardsley and Lineker before Rooney and Owen. [although I wouldn't dispute that Rooney is worthy to step into Beardo's shoes, I'm talking more of a partnership). Only Gary Neville and John Terry of the current team would get into that England team IMO. It's an absolute and total myth that foreign players have improved English players. The top class ones have given glamour to and enhanced the premiership ie Zola, Henry etc, but overall they have stunted their growth. Topical - watching the under 21's now, and Theo Walcott looks every inch the player Keyring Dire dreamed of being, but never will be in a million years. He's finished. His crap attitude has cost him his career, he's wasted it. James Milner has just scored a penalty after Walcott was brought down. It's well recognised that Banks, Charlton and Moore were Englands top 3, true World Class players. I would add Ray Wilson to that list too. Where England really scored was that the players all played to their best, in their most comfortable positions, and the overall balance and shape of the team suited everybody. Some people also say we won because we were at home. This was a big factor, but I think England could have won that cup anywhere in Europe. We were certainly the 2nd best team in the world 4 years later, by which time the Brazilians had found themselves again and had the best international team that has ever won that competition in my lifetime anyway. I think the biggest football travesty of all time is that the Dutch team from 1973 to 1978 won nowt, they were the best team for that period and how they didn't win the World Cup in '74 and again in '78 tells the story that the best team doesn't always win. That Dutch team against the Brazil team of 1970 would have been a spectacle to behold and England would have been in the mix at that time. In 1970 England weren't far behind Brazil both individually and collectively, it would have been a very competitive final in 1970 had it been England versus Brazil and we may have won, the teams were that close. Overall, for a number of years we were a benchmark for the rest even though we only won it in 1966. While I'm comparing players of today against players of the past I'm doing it in the context of comparing the current players against those of other nations right now and it's clear that we just don't get close individually. We could always fluke something, of course. Like Greece. Agreed - the 1970 England side were really unlucky not to meet Brazil again in the Final ; even Pele thought they would after the game at Guadalajara in the Group.. In some respects, they had better players than the 66 side that won at Wembley. I am sure that if Banks had not been ill(some suspect poisoning in his food)just before we played W.Germany, we would have beaten them again - Bonetti had a nightmare in goal, and we were 2-0 up.. We have gone downhill ever since that game, and although we played well in 1990 under Robson, we were never the International force again that we were between 1966-1970 - the team used to play decent football, keeping possession well. The answer will never be addressed - its like everything in the UK, too much short-termism..