merlin

Mort has said the only things he COULD say - he has no alternative. He is quite right that all the managerial changes have been bad for the club, but that is down to the previous Board who didn't pick the right man in the first place, although unlike many, I believe that Dalglish WOULD have been a success if he hadn't fallen out with Fletcher and Shearer hadn't been injured in the 97 pre-season. All the other choices, with the obvious exception of SBR(who should really have come 2 years previously when asked by Sir John after KK walked out)have been disastrous without exception. Mort & Ashley are quite correct in seeking to stabilse the club, and as I have said on other threads, are unlikely to jump into sacking Allardyce for the remainder of the season at least. Whether they reconsider at the season's end will depend on what happens between now & then ; I would guess that if we finish in the top 10, they will let things go for another year ; if we finish near the bottom 4 then I wouldn't be at all surprised if Allardyce goes, esp if they have given him money to spend in Jan. The next few weeks will be a big test for everyone at the club - we have some tough games and if we lose them all it will heap pressure on both manager & directors. If we are in the bottom 4 by Christmas,there will be some sleepless nights for the latter, as the season could be falling apart.. A bad finish to the season, with us being near the relegation slots, would be justification for the manager to be replaced in most observers eyes and enable the directors/owner to seek top class replacements - on the other hand, a top 10 finish would give little reason for Allardyce to be replaced ; most of the media would view it as success given our disarray over the past few years. Basically, given some financial support in Jan, its all in Allardyce's own hands - he has at least half a team of his own choosing and must stand or fall by results. If these are not forthcoming, the consequences for Prem managers are well known, not that it is a disaster for them - they walk away with a fortune for what is basically failure.

Yes, I know Dave - sorry, but I've got a wife who is now desperate to serve the evening meal - I'm not popular with her either...!!!

I was watching this the other night: absolutely, he isn't Agreed - Shearer is ONE of NUFCs best CFs, but not THE best and certainly not the club's best ever player. I can think of at least 3 or 4 in a few seconds who are better. He WAS the best English CF of his era.

Souness and O'Neill had their Scottish successes with the respective halves of the Old Firm. Their League Cup successes were with Blackburn Rovers and Leicester City, respectively - two quite comparable, middling teams. I appreciate that Souness has managed even bigger clubs without success, but I'm not arguing he is as good a manager as O'Neill, let alone a better manager. I'm seeking to undermine the idea that a manager's trophy record "proves" he is better or worse than another manager. Whether anyone like sit or not, winning trophies is ALL that matters in establishing a club as a top side with worldwide respect - West Ham were universally held up as proponents of football as it should be played in the 60s, and even they won the FA Cup/Cupwinners Cup(they did have Moore, Peters, Hurst etc i the side), but Man U went on to be the most renowned side because of title wins and European Cup success.. Real Madrid have never replicated their successes in Europe that made them world famous in the 60s, but they are still revered because of them. NUFC have won NO Domestic trophies since 1955 , NO trophies at all since 69 - name me another club with our fan base who have been so unsuccessful - KK did a great job for us, but by walking out, he demonstrated that he couldn't finish it off ; either that or he thought the way the club was being run did not allow that because he wouldn't have limitless funds.

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? Lets put it another way - as you brought KK into it, who would you choose if both KK and MON were in for the NUFC job at the end of this season? Sorry, but for me, its MON...proven winner and interested in ALL aspects of a club, not just buying players. Proven against Scots. To put it yet another way, who would you have had back in 1992? We are not back in 1992 - I asked who would you choose if both were in for the NUFC job at the end of THIS season - so - who would YOU choose??? And as for your comment about the Scots, did Celtic only play Scots when reaching the UEFA Final against Porto..!!? Oh, well in that case, probably Martin O'Neill. I would also prefer Martin O'Neill to Brian Clough, Bill Shankly, Bob Paisley and Jock Stein. I reckon he'd out-perform the lot of them. Well, he might, anyway. You said O'Neill was a proven winner - he's won several things in Scotland and an English League Cup, just like Graeme Souness. Graeme Souness has also won an English FA Cup. Graeme Souness has won a cup in Turkey, too, unlike Martin O'Neill. Martin O'Neill has won nothing in trans-European competition. Souness was three injuries away from getting us into the UEFA Cup Final. Steve McLaren did get Middlesbrough into the UEFA Cup Final. Martin O'Neill's achievements with Celtic are worth little. Getting a bit silly now, aren't we ? How do Clough, Paisley et al come into this ? I thought most of the people you mentioned were DEAD ! Lets get down to basics - O'Neill, Souness, Allardyce - all ALIVE(at least, 2 of them!)the last time I looked ; Suppose all 3 were your choice of manager given that you HAD the choice - which would you choose? You can add KK in as well, if you like - he's been our boss once, so you can view the choice with the advantage of hindsight.... NOW - to be fair - these are probably the only types of manager who would currently take the NUFC job. IF Hiddink was prepared to do it, I would actually choose him, but we are looking at what we can currently be expected to have available IF the job was vacant, which it currently isn't and I don't expect it to be until at least the season's end, if then... As for your comparison of O'Neill with Souness - how many Chairmen of Prem clubs would choose Souness over O'Neill if both wanted to manage their club(don't say Shepherd, we all know he doesn't really count !)? Souness MIGHT have won things with Rangers, but they were the Chelsea of their day - Celtic couldn't even attempt to match them, but O'Neill had to work with a much more even playing field in the transfer stakes, and Souness's tenure at other clubs AFTER Rangers tells you everything - the same DOESN'T apply to MON.

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? Lets put it another way - as you brought KK into it, who would you choose if both KK and MON were in for the NUFC job at the end of this season? Sorry, but for me, its MON...proven winner and interested in ALL aspects of a club, not just buying players. Proven against Scots. To put it yet another way, who would you have had back in 1992? We are not back in 1992 - I asked who would you choose if both were in for the NUFC job at the end of THIS season - so - who would YOU choose??? And as for your comment about the Scots, did Celtic only play Scots when reaching the UEFA Final against Porto..!!?

NO striker will flourish the way we are currently playing - there is RUBBISH service from midfield(which is largely by-passed by hit & hope balls from defenders under pressure ; there is only Emre who can see an defence-splitting pass(the type that Owen in particular thrives on) and he is inconsistent. There is not enough movement off the ball to create space for the forwards and the build-up, apart from hopeful punts from defenders, is laboured and slow - esp when Geremi is in the side, but he is not the only culprit.. We lack both the players AND the system to create many clear cut chances - by that I mean those created as a result of decent build-up NOT by percentage football relying on mistakes from opposition defenders.. This gets you by with the poorer teams at home, but, as Reading showed, not even them away from home. Pompey's movement left us for dead in Saturday's match - if Owen had been playing for them, the odds on him scoring would have been much greater than playing in our system - just think back to the Boro match - both goals from individual brilliance - NOT from properly-constructed moves... It must be a nightmare playing up front for NUFC right now - even Shearer would have found it tough.

Agreed - he's totally correct isn't he ? The truth always hurts...

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? Lets put it another way - as you brought KK into it, who would you choose if both KK and MON were in for the NUFC job at the end of this season? Sorry, but for me, its MON...proven winner and interested in ALL aspects of a club, not just buying players.

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT... that means souness was better than keegan ? So you think Allardyce's football, at both Bolton & NUFC, is better than MONs at Celtic or Villa ??

I wonder about Patrick Barclay sometimes...."O'Neill is a better manager than Allardyce". There was also a worrying assumption by these hacks that Ashley is clueless and might be bad for the club. Nonsense. O'Neill IS a better manager than Allardyce - his trophy record proves it, as does his getting Celtic to a European Final ; Allardyce has won NOWT...

What about when the States held it in 1994 ? How far do you think California is from the East Coast ? Or even Chicago, for example? These arguments are not valid against holding the WC ANYWHERE - do you think it should only be held in Europe because its easier for YOU? FIFA don't look at it that way, they want to advance the game ALL OVER the world. Also, it would be held in June, so that is the Aussie Winter, temps around 18-20 during the day - perfect for football - as for time differences, when the WC was held in Argentina in 78, we often had to stay up until the early hours to see games because they were 8 hours behind - 9 behind Central Europe, so that doesn't stand up either.. As has been said, you wouldn't get supporters in ANY country watching games between very minor nations, wherever it was played.

Has looked the weakest link in Chelsea's back 4 on the occasions he has played - not impressed at all.

ALL TRUE

If Jones isn't kept quiet, we will lose - Allardyce clearly cannot change the way he sets the side up for away games, and attacking them down the flanks(with Milner/Zog in their CORRECT positions)is basically the best hope we have of getting anything out of the game. Having said that, I cannot see us competing well enough(OR retaining enough possession) in midfield to keep the pressure off the back 4 which is essential in this game. I thought Keane's comments after the Man C game were exactly right - he didn't try to say that his side 'deserved more' from the game, as we so often hear from defeated managers, he simply shook his head when that was put to him and said 'how many saves did their keeper have to make ?'..... This is exactly what Allardyce should have said after our game at Reading, because that was exactly what happened - we didn't force their keeper into 1 decent save, so you can't be surprised when you get nothing out of the match.... A similar approach at the SOS will result in a draw at very best, and most probably, a 1-0 defeat. We will have a real problem over the next few weeks if we lose this match - Arsenal & Liverpool are the next visitors to SJP, and we have to visit Blackburn in between - do those optimists out there STILL think we've got a 'relatively easy run.'..!?? If we lose all these games, it could be crisis time before Christmas, and we all know what THAT means...

I voted Yes(as would any sane person), but the way things are right now, it would take all of Abramovitch's money, let alone Ashley's, for this team to get anywhere NEAR the title - I regret to say that I am coming round to the opinion of those who think we'll never win ANYTHING, let alone the Prem .Its all gone on too long, and as was stated by some on another site, some of us are getting too long in the tooth to ever hope of seeing it happen - at least I HAVE seen us win a trophy in 69, so I can't grumble as much as others, but there should have been far more than just that..there have been too many false dawns and football has changed irrevocably over the past 10 years, to our detriment - we blew our chance of being a member of the Top 4 back in 96, and that was the 'Last Hurrah' in my opinion ; results such as we have seen over the past few weeks have been as poor as anything in the past, and some of the football worse. Its a pointless thread really, as we haven't GOT the cash to buy the title - even with Ashley.

Yes, I was at that Spurs game - it was during a period when they seemed to have the 'Indian Sign' on us - we seemed to lose every home game against them. In this match, we actually played well - Pat Jennings saved their bacon numerous times but every time they broke away, they scored..!! They had a Scottish striker, Alfie Conn, who got a hat-trick I believe - we had Tommy Craig making his home debut, and he scored a cracker near the end, but it was only a consolation.. Even their manager(he was an Ulsterman, a former Arsenal defender, but I can't remember his name) said afterwards that he couldn't understand how the scoreline came about...!! I was disappointed, but it was only 'one of those games' - nothing like as important as the Man U one in March 96...

So we've gone from having a fat & useless chairman to having a fat & clinically insane chairman. Great. He's not our chairman tbh. ....BUT - he pays the piper, therefore calls the tune - Brown isn't the Chancellor any more, but do you believe he has no say in Policy!!

Yes - spot Robster. I agree, I knew when Cantona sneaked that goal at the Gallowgate end we were stuffed ; the team had played them off the park in the first half, they hardly got a kick - a half-time of 3-0 wouldn't have been out of place. You just knew that goal, coming against the run of play, would give Man U hope for the rest of the season and that it would deflate both NUFC and the fans - doubts started to creep in and we were never to be so convincing again that season. We might have stuffed them 5-0 next season, but it really meant nothing compared to what even a 1-0 win in March 96 would have given us.

There will be plenty of these reports over the next few weeks, esp if we keep turning in sub-standard performances/results. It goes without saying that Ashley will not be happy with the dross currently being dished-up, whether people walk out after 11 mins or not...BUT - he is unlikely to allow the club to fall into the same state of chaos as Shepherd did and fire the manager in mid-season although I CAN see him taking action if this season turns into a wash-out by the end. Hughes is an intriguing name to enter the equation - he has done a great job at Blackburn and will soon be ready to move on - the questions are whether he sees SJP as a suitable destination when Old T is likely to beckon in a few years...also, whether he would take on the 'poisoned chalice' after seeing what has happened here in the past. Of all the decent candidates, he is probably the most likely one to take the job if offered - Mourinho MIGHT, but he may hang on for a London Club ; no guarantees that Ramos will do the trick at Spurs. Most top foreign coaches would not be interested in my opinion.

Saw the start of the game, then went to bed - we are now 9 hours in front of UK due to Daylight Saving last week-end, and the writing was on the wall by 12.10 midnight our time...... Unlike some eternal optimists who thought our next lot of fixtures were relatively easy, I was unsurprised by this defeat, although the size of it WAS a shock - I saw Pompey play at Chelsea earlier in the season, and thought they looked a decent side, unlucky to lose by 1 goal.... Last night, they finished the game as a contest within 10 minutes of kick-off and each of the 2 goals was a peach - Harper had NO chance with either of them, and the second was a good example of SUCCESSFUL 'Long Ball tactics - a shrewd, well-weighted pass that put the forward in with an equal chance against the defender(UNLIKE our hopeful punts upfield in the general direction of the opposition goal) ; Pompey also displayed some excellent passing and possession at speed, something I have been complaining about since it is almost absent from Newcastle's performances - we can't keep the ball OR pass it properly to save our lives.. I say again, as I did after the last 2 away defeats - there is something wrong with the coaching and training. There is obviously NO emphasis on fast, passing possession, simply a hit & hope long ball policy. The shape of the side continues to baffle me, with players continually played out of position, AND beginning to look demoralised and fed up with the situation.... As for what can be done - well , the answer is VERY LITTLE ; we are going to go to the SOS next week under huge pressure - whilst anything is possible in these games, I think that most sensible fans will believe we now go there as underdogs, a situation which hasn't occurred for many years, but I for one will not be surprised if they turn us over, although a heavy defeat would really set the alarm bells ringing. I cannot believe that the manager will be sacked unless things get really bad, i.e.we drop into the bottom 4 by Christmas - there simply isn't another option available to the club at present... Ashley is too shrewd not to realise how difficult it will be to try to get a decent replacement before the season's end , and we are probably No 1 on the 'List to Avoid' of Top-Class managers due to our wonderful record in that dept over the past 4 years...SO - its likely to be the status quo for the foreseeable future. As I said before after other defeats - its not the actual DEFEAT that is so bad - its the MANNER of them, and many more will result in a loss of morale amongst the players. There is ONE nagging fear at the back of my mind regarding personnel - that is, maybe the Man City fans were partly right in their warnings about Barton and his influence OFF the field - the last 2 performances, when he was a starting part of the side, have been lacking in any spirit whatsoever.... These are bad days, and its batten-down-the-hatches time.

That's the whole problem Mick - he shouldn't have been dropped in the first place. Given has hardly covered himself in glory since he got back into the side and Harper must feel that whatever he does, he will be out again when Given is fit Hardly going to fill him full of confidence, is it !? Harper being dropped along with Geremi being made skipper were 2 of Allardyce's worst decisions in my opinion - neither has been to the benefit of the team or team spirit.

Correction, Chez, it was an Australian COMPANY(Multiplex) - the problems were caused by; 1.Constant requests for changes in design etc by the stadium owners 2.Problems with the workforce - initially, Cleveland Bridge workers went on strike. There were no problems building the Olympic Stadium in Sydney and as I said, it was finished On TIME & ON BUDGET...wonder why !!?? We had a house built here during 2006 and despite a housing/construction boom in the area(nr Perth) at the time, it was done on the button and with no problems - we didn't even find any cracks after 6 months, so the quality of build is generally good and fast.

England WON'T get the WC - my money is on either Brazil or Australia in 2018. Even if England DID get it, the record of Newcastle Council in helping NUFC is not exactly brilliant, is it ? They dragged their feet over the Leazes Park project, which would have given us a bigger & better stadium than Man U at the time, and by doing so allowed the Brains Dept(i.e., one John Prescott, better known as 'Chipolata' allegedly.!!)to stymie the whole thing. It cost the club(and Ashley, in the end)millions by having to re-develop SJP into the lob-sided thing it is now. Sorry about that guys - I actually meant to put China & Australia, NOT Brazil(always think about Brazil when the WCs mentioned..!!). As for gggg's comments about Australia - you're wrong. Apart from the Olympic Stadium(built, may I remind you, ON TIME and to BUDGET, unlike Wembley!), there is the Aussie Stadium in Sydney, and the MCG and Telstra Dome in Melbourne...these all have capacity well above 40,000.. You will find that the other cities would have stadiums either re-modelled or newly-built to accommodate the WC if awarded - they don't hang around over here if things like that are on the table and FOOTBALL is a rapidly-growing sport among youngsters. This is a wealthy country whose Economy is growing at twice the rate of the UK - also Blatter has let it be known that he would support an Aussie bid as it would encourage the sport in this country. I notice that Hiddink wasn't in a great hurry to take the England job after he had finished his contract with Australia.....