AyeDubbleYoo

I don't really have time to quote every sentence I want to respond to, and I sense we're going around in circles a bit here. I hope that the chant is just an attempt to wind up the opposition, although I've heard nothing here to suggest that it's in any way acceptable. Whether it's been going on for years or since last tuesday, it needs to stop now. I don't think those of us who are objecting need to 'get over it and move on' at all, in fact I think it's important that when these incidents happen we continue to discuss them and investigate the motivation behind them. This has been quite a depressing thread for me (as are a lot of the discussions I have with older members of my family about racism), as it always seems there are a number of people who just can't listen to reason about these subjects and continue to defend the indefensible. It's important that white British people retain their cultural identity (everyone needs to belong to something), but we needn't do it by abusing other races.

I'm not sure why people are even attempting to say that the word 'paki' is OK in Britain today, what's your motivation? All I can see is people attempting to make excuses for people acting in an obviously-racist way. If there's another reason then I'm happy to apologise.

Phil, I can see where you're coming from, it should be treated seriously when people of all backgrounds are abused. Where I think there might be a slight difference is the intent - when opposition fans sung the child molesters song at boro, I don't think it was fuelled by a belief that it was literally true (I mean, they obviously knew this was a one off case). Whereas I do think that the 'town full of pakis' thing is fuelled by hatred and prejudice. I've been part of singing 'where's your water gone' to Halifax fans during their water shortage, but only because we knew it wasn't really offensive, only a way of picking faults with rival fans, something all football supporters understand. I would hold back from using any chants that were genuinely offensive and had connotations beyond football. For example, nobody (I would think) is going around calling boro fans child molesters in general life, where people of Pakistani background have to put up with insults and racism all the time. Despite the persecution complex you seem to have, white people in Britain are still the controlling and most priviledged section of society.

He's picking up the lingo anyway Overall though, I do love it when we beat the likes of Blackburn and they whinge, it wouldn't be the same if they were sensible about it. Hopefully we can get back to a position where it happens regularly.

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/newcastleunited/chroniclesport/tm_headline=butt-nicks-glory-from-hit-man-oba Even Alan Oliver agrees...

It looks just as bad in print! Although he did say 'it was a foul', so I don't know where his logic went between that and appealing the red card :roll:

I wasn't aware of that Chez, but I do know it's often said the problem is much worse in other parts of Europe. As long as we continue to report and speak out against incidents like the one LateReg talks about, we should continue to make progress (whilst recognising we still have work to do).

Seconded, let us know what kind of a response you get, I hope it's a promise of action being taken.

I would hope TT's not doubting your right to raise this without having officially reported it, this is discussion forum after all. Ideally you (or someone who witnessed it) would have made a complaint though, I would think that would be the best way to get some proper action taken. I can understand his need to get evidence though, this is the internet. Sure he wasn't trying to accuse you of making it up. OK, peacemaking over!

To be fair (even though I started this thread!), it must be difficult to be expected to come out with something sensible immediately after the match when you're wound up etc. I'd like to think he would have been a bit more balanced after he'd slept on it. Although then again...

Hmm, I'd be interested to know who actually speaks out about this sort of thing at the time. I once had a go at a guy watching the match in the pub after he called Kieron Dyer a 'black bastard', but he was about 50 and overweight! I'd like to think I would have done it even if he'd been a 6 foot 5 skinhead, or if he'd been with a group of mates, but I wonder blueconfused.gif

Great news, I'm justified in slagging him off, can't wait to see the appeal fail as well blueyes.gif

I couldn't really see the foul in detail on MOTD2, Hughes seemed to claim he played the ball first? Sounded like the desperate wailings of a madman, but I can't really say for sure!

Well at least someone prepared to take a risk! Although they'd probably never be allowed to interview a manager again though to be fair.

I'd like interviewers to start asking managers these kinds of questions when they start moaning about decisions. "So Mark, do you not agree it would be better to just concentrate on what you're doing rather than constantly slating officials?"

True, this is one of things that makes me warm to Roeder really, they way he generally just gets on with his job and always says the right things (even though I know it's easier to say the right things than do them).

No, it doesn't. Racism is in the eye (or ear in this case) of the beholder. Why is it, for instance, that some do not see a woman who goes to a job interview at a school sans veil, gets job on that behest, yet decides to make a lot of trouble wearing veils to teach (using OUR money to sue), or dozens of similar cases as NOT being racist, but anything in the other direction IS ? Its the hypocritical double standards that get me. If all sides were panned, that would be good. We could all unite and give the bigots/racists (an over used word if ever there was one) whatever you want to call them the SAME abuse. I'd say it was more acceptable than demanding mass murder because of a cartoon (done in another country by ONE person) though, wouldnt you ? I don't think racism is in the ear of the beholder, it's in the intention of the speaker. I can't believe anyone is honestly suggesting that 'just a town full of Pakis' isn't intending to be racist. And it's pretty pointless to compare it to the cartoon debacle, what has the rightness or wrongness of that got to do with the rightness or wrongness of this?

Not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, but just watched the video of Mark Hughes after the game, and it really made me feel slightly ill. He spends nearly the entire interview moaning about decisions and then complains about his injury situation (!). Pathetic really, it would be nice to see him taking some responsibility for their league position. I just hope for their sake that in private he's not passing this whinging excuse-making attitude on to the players. http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/eng_prem/6201450.stm

Well done Gemmill lad, that's very fair of you. I'm almost coming round to your Luque view as well! blueeek.gif

Mere flesh wound. Seen worse cutting myself shaving. So, black eye and a grazed thigh so far. What next you wonder? Or has it crossed anyones mind that he isn't over his long standing problems and his injuries are convenient get outs? Nope. :roll:

Best celebration ever I reckon was the Cantona chip against the mackems, when he just stands there as if to say 'yep, I am the greatest!'

Looking forward to seeing Mickey back as well, and Roeder's handling of Dyer suggests when he comes back it will be when he's completely ready Not sure we need a tall striker for the first team, although it would be nice as an option to change things.

Not much chance of that

I don't think Reading really need to spend in the window, at least not if their only objective is to stay up. It would take a shocking second half of the season for them to go down - and what they've shown so far doesn't suggest that's likely to happen.