AyeDubbleYoo

But with the Man U players that wouldn't be necessary because they're technically much better and can retain the ball and turn more attacks into real chances. In theory.

Possibly, but mostly they were intended to stay as part of the squad and not play anywhere near the minutes they have done. Either way the point is that we brought in other players in their positions who were intended to be better. No doubt he values the character that some of those names have, I don't think that's a problem.

I'm not saying he wanted Trippier to leave but he didn't want him to start every game. And we might have been OK to keep Wilson as third choice on a really cheap deal, that doesn't mean Howe thinks he's the answer to anything. We peddled Longstaff, we signed Hall for LB (albeit bringing him in slowly), we signed Botman for LCB, we tried to upgrade Murphy with Elanga. None except Hall has really gone well for various reasons, but to me it's just not true to say Howe is overly loyal to these players. if anything I'd say he and the club have been very good at identifying where our strengths and weaknesses are.

I still wonder if Vlach just wasn't tried because he was only signed for PSR. He's an international keeper and no way he's that bad. Probably it was just never on the cards to play him. If it was a choice between him for free or Ramsdale for £20m I guess people might like to give him a try.

Usually when we say Howe is too loyal it's to players that he has actively tried to replace. Longstaff, Burn, Trippier, Wilson, Murphy I would all put in that category.

I don't think there's really any intention to convert Woltemade to a midfielder, Howe is just struggling because he believes we need the intense Gordon press from the front at the moment.

Woodgate would've been an interesting shout before he went to Man U. Maybe he'll become available if Carrick doesn't keep the job. (As coach I mean, not manager )

They're all crap though so it's not too relevant.

He needs to focus on finding the bottom corner instead of the top corner. The low ones usually are much better. The take of his goal was much better than maybe we think, he did brilliantly to control it and shift it away form the two defenders. It was no way a tap-in.

You've got something there

I would definitely like to see some new coaches come in. Not that any of us really know how good they are, but our setup does sometimes seem small compared to the top clubs.

I don't think I would map points onto caring in that way like. The good news is it looks like we're due a big upturn now

Yeah, I mean fair enough if true. That's why we took him on loan in first place I suppose.

TBF I think it's important to note that if our signings had performed anywhere near the level they were expected to we would've been fine. They wouldn't have been bargains but they would've been good enough to help the team.

I would actually explore Vlach as number 2 and a new signing to start. Unless he's completely persona non grata with Eddie. Otherwise I would keep Ramsdale over Pope but there's not much between them.

But we seem to have assumed he's shite?

Top top post.

I think the backroom changes were massive though, because they no doubt affect the deals we could actually do. Just like when Steve Bruce and Charnley only had the phone numbers of about 5 footballers. We obviously didn't have the capacity to do multiple smart deals. Whether or not we do now, we will see.

I still don't get why Wilson is such a joke figure? Isn't he quite experienced and Forest recruited loads of players, a lot of whom were good?

I mean, I don't think dumped out has a definitive meaning but it seems to suggest losing to people who you wouldn't expect us to lose to. If not then fair enough

"Dumped out" by two of the best teams in the world Fair enough if you want Howe out, but no need to making things up.

I feel like it would be a bit unfair to improve the back office operation (supposedly) and then peddle Howe before he's had a chance to work together with them.

Barnes has always struggled to impose himself on games generally, he's just not quick or athletic enough or he doesn't have the battling mentality. When he gets space and chances he's quality, but in games where we're not playing well I never expect him to impact it very much. Also why I don't think he's a good sub.

Two stupid posts don’t make a right.

I thought it was really good in the first half, even the Leazes was singing pretty well. Second half obviously completely different, feel like their goal deflated us and we could see the defeat coming.