manorpark

Is he quoted for saying the opposite? By deliberately not saying anything (he knows people are concerned about it) he is effectively "saying the opposite by omission" - YES! (Myself, actually think he is staying - but he should SPEAK!) I see your point, but how many time in his career has he been linked to various clubs. Its just been press talk. Yes, but I think that this occasion is a little bit more than 'the norm'. I hope we will hear from him today, now that they are all (as I understand it) together, for the start of pre-season training.

Is he quoted for saying the opposite? By deliberately not saying anything (he knows people are concerned about it) he is effectively "saying the opposite by omission" - YES! (Myself, actually think he is staying - but he should SPEAK!)

I f****** hope so...we've got £50 million to spend, sure we can afford to buy someone better than a 31 yr who is out for 6 months. You waiting for the trophy signings like? f*** the squad. Let's get Kaka! Nope not waiting for the trophy signings but surely we can do better. Ashley has the intelligence, never to let the world know how much we have to spend on players. The oft-quoted figure is pure guesswork, of unknown origin (unlikely to be the oft-quoted origin though!) We may have £150m (or more) or maybe just £20M, for this close season. WE WILL NEVER KNOW, but my own view is that it is two things: (1) A flexible amount. (2) An awful LOT!!!

Have faith in our new Owner, our new Deputy Chairman, and our new Manager. They will be every bit as aware, as we are, about the 'last day of the transfer window' type of possibilities. They will be dealing with it - right now! We are a club in a different world, to that of the recent past. A totally different world. Can't emphasise that enough. So it seems. But however often you say it though, it doesn't stop it from coming accross as being based on very little other than blind optimism. We all have our hopes for our new owner getting it right, but come on. I just cannot work out where you get the 'blind optimism' idea from! One of the United Kingdoms most successful "winners" (as a businessman) has decided to spend £133M as his latest business venture - taking over one of Englands biggest (lets not go on about that word!!) Premier League football clubs. To say that I do not expect him to fail to obtain his desired end product (SUCCESS) in as short a time as is possible - is NOT me adopting "blind optimism" We all need to adjust to the new world we are already in. We are already in that new world NOW.

Perfectly summed up. And, that is the thing that excites me (personally) the most. We are obviously building a squad of VERY GOOD players / professionals, before we go on to dip into (probably) the 'Ashley' money, for the really TOP players, as the 'cream on the coffee'! The very high-quality squad building (almost an entire defence and reserve defenders needed, for example) will go on for a while yet. T H E N . . . . . . !!!!

Have faith in our new Owner, our new Deputy Chairman, and our new Manager. They will be every bit as aware, as we are, about the 'last day of the transfer window' type of possibilities. They will be dealing with it - right now! We are a club in a different world, to that of the recent past. A totally different world. Can't emphasise that enough.

It is recognised on the UEFA board if you read the history of the UEFA CUp , the thing is that they no longer show the list of ICFC winners as the competition was not ran by them at the time. They took control of the competion in 1971. This is fair enough as the FA dont show Carling Cup results on their site do they! This "it was an invitation" only competition is a load of bollocks as well. The ICFC was invitation in its first two years of existence but there again, the first World Cup was "invitation" only as were the first few FA Cups. Are you sure you are not a smoggie??? Yes Wally - that type of 'not even a recognised tournament' / 'it was an invitation-only tournament when we went into it' type of comment, is indeed VERY reminiscent (almost word-for-word identical) to the idiotic comments a number of Smoggie supporters have often written (and even after correction continue to write) about our Fairs Cup win. Don't think gggg is one though! Very strange words, nonetheless!!

Not putting it down MP, it's just that if you have the debate with rival fans (as I often have had), the Intercity Fairs (or UEFA as it now is) doesn't carry as much weight as say the FA cup. Maybe because no-one's really heard of the ICF cup. The European Champions League used to be called the European Cup. The UEFA Cup used to be called the European Fairs Cup (previously the Inter Cities Fairs Cup) The European Cup Winners Cup - doesnt even exist now. So, the names may change, but we have played in the Fairs Cup/UEFA Cup, a LOT of times (as well as the Champions League and Cup Winners Cup occasionally) - so I cannot believe that ANY real Newcastle United supporter of any age (or our equivalents from other clubs) does not know all about them!!

Kitman says - "Whereas we haven't won a major domestic trophy since the 50's". Why do you refer to that like that ('domestic' trophy) - though undeniably correct. Most of us who enjoyed our Fairs Cup win, enjoyed it more than we would have enjoyed the League Cup or FA Cup, at the time. It was after all, our first season ever, in Europe. A great win, and only ("only"!!!!!!) 38 years ago . . . .

Excellent summary. Describes exactly how I feel about things. Our future is going to be so very different to our recent past. I am certain of that!

That particular bit of "pre-Ashley" history, is about as relevant (to us NOW) as where we finished in the league in 1977 or 1927!! So the league position last season doesn't count because our chairman has a bit of money? In which case West Ham are one of the biggest clubs in England now too. It is a very different thing to add a rich English (successful) businessmans money (where needed) to an already major (and big spending) large club like ours, than it is to have some unknown person buying into a traditionally 2nd/3rd tier club like West Ham!!! It is the combination of factors that make the (large) difference. I am sure you know that really!

Also - 'bigger clubs' ?? I have never thought of Arsenal as a permanently bigger club than us (to be referred to in such an 'automatic way' as you do). Most definitely, in the last 8 seasons or so - "a more successful team" (not the same thing) Well that's where you're going wrong tbh, they are the 3rd most succesfull club in England and have won the league 6 times and the FA cup 7 times since we last one a trophy. We spent plenty of time in the second division before Keegan but they havent been relegated for about 90 years. In terms of honours AND fanbase they are on their own in 3rd with Liverpool and Man U out in front and you cant just discount success from the size of a club because it's a massive part. In terms of Arsenal, I can see the pendulum swinging our way very soon. I have not checked the stats myself, but did not realise they had won 6 league titles and 7 FA Cups, since 1969! They are a big club, but not unassailable (spelling??!) in that respect, in the way that Manchester United are.

I have read your posts. Thanks for the kind words. In which case you'd see that your last post about me was bollocks then. You are the one that wrote the "bigger clubs" / "West Ham & Tevez" post - not me!

I have read your posts. Thanks for the kind words.

That particular bit of "pre-Ashley" history, is about as relevant (to us NOW) as where we finished in the league in 1977 or 1927!!

It is the massive inferiority complex that is shown in the 'fawning' choice of words, that I am referring to. That is compounded by the direct comparison then made to WEST HAM!!!! Also - 'bigger clubs' ?? I have never thought of Arsenal as a permanently bigger club than us (to be referred to in such an 'automatic way' as you do). Most definitely, in the last 8 seasons or so - "a more successful team" (not the same thing) - but that could have changed at any time (nearly did under SBR) and is probably actually about to - soon. Manchester United are the worlds biggest club, so no matter how "big" we are (are becoming) etc - that comparison is valid. BUT - why "fawn" and constantly express inferiority beliefs, in your choice of words??

West Ham / Tevez - yes, I understand the logic of that. Ourselves / Owen or Martins - I do NOT understand where you see the comparison. You say - "interest from the bigger clubs" - even during our slump of the recent few seasons, I would never use that phrase about other clubs, in comparison to us. The sad (silly) "inferiority complex" that some of us (happily, it is only 'some' of us) have developed of late, that leads to these strange choices of words - MUST be coming to an end soon. But, how long will it take before some people wake up and smell the roses. Be realistic in what you say! (West Ham / Teves situation - AND US . . . . . grief!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

This is it! 01 Mancheser United 02 Chelsea 03 Liverpool 04 Newcastle United 05 Arsenal 06 Aston Villa 07 Tottenham 08 Blackburn 09 Everton 10 Portsmouth 11 West Ham 12 Man City 13 Reading 14 Birmingham 15 Bolton 16 Wigan 17 Fulham 18 Sunderland 19 Middlesbrough 20 Derby

Agreed: (1) Martins will wear the No. 9 (2) Milner for 11 is a good idea.

Talk about "living in the PAST". An amazing collection of words. How long will it be before some people realise what this club already was, is now, and is about to be (already happening). Hopefully, this type of 'Inferiority Complex' thinking will soon disappear. It could take a while for some.

EXACTLY. Ashley would appear to be an intelligent and successful businessman. He will never let it be known how much money we have available to spend on players - NEVER! The amount is likely to be flexible also, depending on what we need to acquire (what Sam says we need) and depending on costs of available players. It could well be a great deal more than the mentioned £50M - or it may be less. We will never know. The most we "may" ever know is how much we have actually spent, after we have spent it (which is not the same thing as what was 'available' to spend, if needed). I hope no-one else ever mentions this 'invented' £50M figure again . . . (some hope!) Just be certain ('content') in the knowledge that there is AN AWFUL LOT of money available to spend. Mike Ashley wants to succeed here.

You have just "archived" top 7 twice consecutively for the first time in your Premiership history and will be playing Uefa Cup football for the 2nd time in 12 years and your on some wa*k session! The "Big Club" list category is of Premiership history (playing history) and (fixed assets) - Size of club Our (Playing history) top 5 positions archived in the Premiership is 2nd, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th. And yours? And our fixed assets are far greater then yours. Newcastle United have been/are a bigger Premiership club but your in around the same category of the list above. I'm sorry but where specifically in that do I state that Spurs are a bigger club than Newcastle or that Newcastle are bigger than Spurs. How am I having a w*** fest? I wasn't even talking about size of the club, I was talking of the ability to challenge for 4th spot. Currently, I think we are the only ones who are capable with the current squad but other clubs may make additions to the squad that will change my mind. And where you have come in the relatively distant past ie 5 years ago doesn't paricularly affect anything now. Look at Leeds as an example, 4th and then 5th while reaching CL semis and now in league 1. Why are you talking about Spurs having the best chance of breaking the top 4? Firstly not many people will dispute that and secondly this thread isn't even about that, it's about how people determine how they rank a club in terms of size. Sorry, I was just going off on a little tangent with manorpark. But anyway, I pretty much agree with the first post, spot on tiers imo. Sorry (me too)!!

It's quite obvious that you absolutely hate spurs for whatever reason, but I will attempt to show you the light :lol:even if I'm wasting my time. I agree that only Chelsea and Man Utd are real title contenders. Some may say Liverpool but it is a myth they haven't spent big money before, they have been one of the biggest spenders the last few years. Mate, Newcastle finished 13th last season. What players exactly do you think you will sign that will magically move you up 9 places. It just isn't going to happen, especially as you basically need to buy a whole new defence. You will challenge, but in 2/3 seasons imo. Of course, Everton and Aston Villa are UEFA cup contenders but neither will push for the CL, as Everton don't have the finances and Villa don't have the team or Squad. Everyone talks about O'Neill as if he is some sort of God yet, up until the last few games, his points per game ratio were worse than O'leary's. Oh and comparing Spurs to the teams you have just shows your seemingly irrational hate. Let's just look at where all those teams finished the last 2 seasons. Spurs- 5th, 5th Man City- 15th, 14th Blackburn- 6th, 10th Bolton- 8th, 7th Portsmouth- 17th, 9th West Ham- 9th, 15th We are the only one of those teams that has got into UEFA cup twice in a row and the only ones outside of the top 4, including Newcastle, which can handle close to 60 games a season and still finish 5th. When was the last time a team qualified in 2 consecutive seasons for the UEFA cup? And according to you, we did it through luck. Yep, we must have had God himself playing for us seeing as we finished in the same position twice through luck. You couldn't be more wrong mate, in my years living in North London (in Hornsey and then Wood Green) I came to know a lot of Tottenham supporters, and developed a strong affection for the club, which I will always retain. The thing I do dislike (though 'hate' is far too strong a word) is that this particular club have suddenly become this years "universally over-rated" / "oft quoted as the next big thing" , football club. It is such a shame, as it is just ridiculous. It only usually happens to London clubs. A London club (could be any of them) only has to do 'reasonably well' and the NATIONAL media grab it and repeatedly EXAGERATE, until it (by repitition) it gets accepted as fact! The best example was in the 70s or 80s when a club called Crystal Palace won two or three games on the trot - and were classed (for YEARS) as the "club of the future" - nationally. You see, parochial idiocy does not just exist down in London, but the difference is that when it happens down there it does not get restricted to 'local media' (eg, Evening Standard, or whatever) it gets broadcast nationally (as that is where the national papers, etc, are based). So, I object to my favourite London club being so universally 'hyped' that it will look such a sad joke in about nine months time! As I have said before, the current Spurs team is nothing much. About two months before the end of last season, we moved ahead of them in the league and neither looked likely to pull away from the other. Now, that was in one of our most 'rubbish' seasons for years, and I know we then went on to lose ground, but really, I cannot believe the hype that has ensued and 'taken over' many peoples thinking about them. It is all just so exagerated. They are not a rubbish side, they are just not that good a side. In nine months time that will be very clear, as lightening does not strike three times!! Tbh, I do agree slightly with the over-rating part, although I do feel a lot of players are under-rated. King is never given the credit he deserves and neither is LYP but on the other hand, Berbatov has been made out to be some world superstar on a par with Kaka who will only be allowed to leave for 50 million. Berbatov is a very good player, maybe world class, but not as good as everyone makes out. i could understand your point if we for example finished 2nd one season, clearly above our abilities and then found the CL too hard, do an Everton and at some points look relatively close to relegation the next season. The fact is, we finished 5th twice in a row. The first time, we had 4th snatched from us on the last day while last season, we snatched it from Everton on the last day. We had many problems last season, the capture of one of our best players and the basis of a lot of attacks. Therefore, we lost a lot of attacking power as well as our defensive shield. Took us months to get over that. Then, we have to bed in about half the first team, as well as coping with long term injuries to kep players and you start to see our problems. Fixtures play a large part as well. Almost all of our 'hard' games were done by about February and that is why we were so low around Christmas and then shot up the table. Finally, we played more games than every single club in England except for the best two and yet we still managed to finish higher than you, Everton, Pompey, Bolton etc. None of you had to deal with 60 games a season. Surely that shows that we weren't just lucky to finish 5th twice in a row. Oh and where you are in the middle of the season means nothing. Weren't charlton second by Christmas at one point in the last few seasons. King is an excellent player! It was about two and a half months before the end of the season, not mid-season. Anyway, I think we may have 'discussed this to death' and I appreciate you concur that there is an element of 'over-rating'. I personally feel that I have probably also been 'over-harsh' in my comments, as I have attemped to try to combat this oft-spoken over-rating and to try to get others to see the same! So, all the best to you for next season and (while I have NO real idea where WE will finish, as Mr Ashley has not even started anything yet) I hope you finish about one place below us!! (That could make you 'runners up' . . . . er, no, perhaps not!!) Cheers.

It's quite obvious that you absolutely hate spurs for whatever reason, but I will attempt to show you the light :lol:even if I'm wasting my time. I agree that only Chelsea and Man Utd are real title contenders. Some may say Liverpool but it is a myth they haven't spent big money before, they have been one of the biggest spenders the last few years. Mate, Newcastle finished 13th last season. What players exactly do you think you will sign that will magically move you up 9 places. It just isn't going to happen, especially as you basically need to buy a whole new defence. You will challenge, but in 2/3 seasons imo. Of course, Everton and Aston Villa are UEFA cup contenders but neither will push for the CL, as Everton don't have the finances and Villa don't have the team or Squad. Everyone talks about O'Neill as if he is some sort of God yet, up until the last few games, his points per game ratio were worse than O'leary's. Oh and comparing Spurs to the teams you have just shows your seemingly irrational hate. Let's just look at where all those teams finished the last 2 seasons. Spurs- 5th, 5th Man City- 15th, 14th Blackburn- 6th, 10th Bolton- 8th, 7th Portsmouth- 17th, 9th West Ham- 9th, 15th We are the only one of those teams that has got into UEFA cup twice in a row and the only ones outside of the top 4, including Newcastle, which can handle close to 60 games a season and still finish 5th. When was the last time a team qualified in 2 consecutive seasons for the UEFA cup? And according to you, we did it through luck. Yep, we must have had God himself playing for us seeing as we finished in the same position twice through luck. You couldn't be more wrong mate, in my years living in North London (in Hornsey and then Wood Green) I came to know a lot of Tottenham supporters, and developed a strong affection for the club, which I will always retain. The thing I do dislike (though 'hate' is far too strong a word) is that this particular club have suddenly become this years "universally over-rated" / "oft quoted as the next big thing" , football club. It is such a shame, as it is just ridiculous. It only usually happens to London clubs. A London club (could be any of them) only has to do 'reasonably well' and the NATIONAL media grab it and repeatedly EXAGERATE, until it (by repitition) it gets accepted as fact! The best example was in the 70s or 80s when a club called Crystal Palace won two or three games on the trot - and were classed (for YEARS) as the "club of the future" - nationally. You see, parochial idiocy does not just exist down in London, but the difference is that when it happens down there it does not get restricted to 'local media' (eg, Evening Standard, or whatever) it gets broadcast nationally (as that is where the national papers, etc, are based). So, I object to my favourite London club being so universally 'hyped' that it will look such a sad joke in about nine months time! As I have said before, the current Spurs team is nothing much. About two months before the end of last season, we moved ahead of them in the league and neither looked likely to pull away from the other. Now, that was in one of our most 'rubbish' seasons for years, and I know we then went on to lose ground, but really, I cannot believe the hype that has ensued and 'taken over' many peoples thinking about them. It is all just so exagerated. They are not a rubbish side, they are just not that good a side. In nine months time that will be very clear, as lightening does not strike three times!!

Slight variation, accounting for the over-rating of Spurs. 1. Title contenders: Manchester United, Chelsea. 2. Champions League Places contenders: Liverpool, Newcastle United, Arsenal. 3. UEFA Cup contenders with potential of Champions League placing Everton, Aston Villa. 4. Mid-table with potential to finish top 6 Manchester City, Blackburn, Spurs, Bolton, Portsmouth, West Ham 5. Relegation battle with potential to push for top 10 Middlesbrough, Sunderland, Reading 6. Relegation candidates Fulham, Wigan, Derby, Birmingham