Interpolic

Gillespie Obertan Butt Smith Simpson Cole Owen Dubravka? Don't think so actually.

It's not revisionist history, it's looking at it from the English perspective as it's most relevant to the discussion. I'd be happy enough with saying Jewish owners were ruining football if there was somehow the same history in Jewish sport that there is in American sport. And if I felt the systems in those sports would ruin European football, as the American systems would. And if the Jewish owners had already tried to railroad the existing system in favour of a poisonous closed shop model, as the Americans already have. I don't feel like the Americans need you jumping out to defend them by calling us all racist, it's a weird stance to take. You seem to be enjoying yourself though so I'll leave you to it.

Your response to me was "who is more mad out of the Glazers and Ratcliffe?" or similar. So I didn't feel like that was answered, or that joeyt would gain anything from re-reading it. The ESL is THE recent example of football almost being destroyed and it was spearheaded by 3 American owners. The potential end result of it being elite football becoming a closed shop that is comparable to American sport with the values of the football pyramid a distant memory. Which is exactly the type of thing people would be concerned about if the EPL was owned by a majority of Americans.

American-led English clubs were also said to be the ones leading the charge for a European Super League. Man City and Chelsea were apparently always more reluctant, reportedly but that's all we have.

Not to be confused with former Liverpool defender Jamie Carragher.

Not TCD

Nah, done - this is utterly tedious.

You know this isn't true. I said it wasn't reasonable to sack him for not qualifying for Europe. How do you get "7th is unrealistic" from that?

Nobody said it was unrealistic. WUM.

Hope you spend the rest of your natural life on the cusp of a sneeze that never arrives.

If people are gonna regularly make reactive AF comments for us all to endure then they should be dug up en masse at times like this imo.

Just to sum up my feelings on this as it has been going on for days and I'm finding the opposing argument quite depressing... Howe or any future NUFC manager should only be expected to qualify for Europe (to the extent they'll lose their job if they don't) when they are operating consistently with a European budget. And for now that's not the case.

Has to deliver what, 7th like he did last year under ridiculously trying circumstances? I didn't say 7th was unrealistic, I said sacking Howe for finishing a place or 2 below that would be completely unreasonable. It's marginal whether us or Villa have spent the most so to say us finishing 8th warrants that outcome is mental. Villa are another one who have had the benefit of huge pure-profit windfalls from their academy btw, unlike us. How long have you been supporting us? Do you realise how incredibly entitled you sound?

How many of Liverpool's squad were bought for fees of <£5m vs our squad? Because that's your youth products, free transfers on big wages, and young bargains picked up due to elite scouting networks. The sort of activity you benefit from when you haven't been run into the ground for 14 years by a spiteful owner. This is squad space that accounts for very little purchase value. And this is context that everyone who watches football knows about and would apply when looking at that table. Ours will also be top-heavy because we weren't able to do stuff like buy a player like Salah to dominate the league for a decade for 35 million quid. Our record signing at that time was still Michael Owen.

Snap @54

Our squad when the new owners arrived: Dubravka, Darlow, Gillespie Clark, Dummett, Schar, Lascelles, Lewis, Krafth, Fernandez, Manquillo Shelvey, ASM, Ritchie, Hayden, Fraser, Murphy, Almiron, Willock, Longstaff Joelinton, Wilson, Gayle Half the reason we were able to spend decent amounts in the first few years was criminal under investment from a fat fuck who DGAF. The squad needed major work and we had very few players of significant resale value. It's a wonder we've been able to compete with some of those six clubs while still spending less than them, from that rotten foundation.

Aye I've noticed We can't look at these 6 clubs who have been given every possible advantage with the new rules, are on a different planet to us financially, and say we MUST finish above at least one of them or it's curtains and the manager has to go. That's madness. Obviously the plan is to build our finances so we can compete consistently on more of a level playing field, but whether that's possible at quicker than a snail's pace is the great unknown. People giving Howe these daft targets most probably don't like Howe and want him sacked for whatever reason.

As a minimum it is, yeah. If not reaching that minimum gets the manager sacked. We're competing with those clubs, if we end up finishing behind them then fair do's though. Say you get your wish and Howe is sacked and we're a clown show again. The plan is to have the 8th highest resources in the country but tell Howe's replacement and everyone else thereafter that they must finish at least 1 or 2 above that or they're sacked? That's setting people up to fail and is far too reliant on other clubs' fucking up massively.

Cheers, makes sense. 2 legs of a semi being a month apart feels wrong though mind.

No it's nonsense you saying the manager needs sacked if he doesn't make Europe 2 seasons running, since that's actually above par. Wage bills are a good indicator of where a club should be finishing. If you don't like that then try revenue since that affects the amount a club can spend on transfer fees. And we are streets behind Spurs and Man Utd on revenue.

Look at the teams that pay more than us and how much more they pay. If we outperform any of the top 6 wage payers we're over-achieving. More of a marginal thing versus the likes of Villa.

We have the 8th highest wage bill in the country. Getting into Europe is over-achieving.

They seem to have messed with the dates a fair bit. March 16th final is at least 2 weeks later than usual but even more strangely there's a whole month between the first and second legs of the semis.

Funny cos every time I watch Arsenal lately I think "why would any of our players want to play for this lot?"