Hanshithispantz

You're completely missing the argument like. Rafa isn't a perfect manager, nobody is really. He probably made mistakes yesterday and not for the first time this season. The issue is with people claiming he hasn't got a plan - that going 4-4-2 or whatever is what he needs to do to turn games around. Like we lost yesterday because he just didn't spot that we needed to change things or that he chose not to change things out of stubbornness.

Surprised by that like, you're right though. Diame for Gouffran a few times. Diame's actually started more than I can remember.

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper. It was KI who brought that sub up. I think it's a sub he has done a numerous times though isnt it? And I personally haven't seen what it has brought to the table. Think he was onabout Perez coming off for Diame.

To play 10 so Mo could drop into cm. ? Post was directed at Kasper.

Perez came on for Colback, not Diame.

As much as Gouffran has 'surprised' at times he's clearly not the answer and there was a reason we were trying to offload him at the start of the season. What happened to the Alan Judge rumours? He still completely fucked?

Why is it then impossible to identify what that plan is? Or can you tell me what our plan is when opponent sits back and Gayle struggles to touch the ball? It's not rocket science. If we have a real plan for these situations then surely most of us would be able to watch the game and point the things he has changed in the way we play. I sure can't. You can't? So you've never seen a change in our football following half time? You've never seen any of our players change position, or new players come on to up the pace or to replace someone who's playing particularly poorly? Perez for Diame, Gouffran for Atsu etc etc? No, I don't see anything consistent enough that tells me there's a solid plan for these situation. If he's bringing on Perez for Diame what is he looking to achieve? How is he changing the way we play if what has been happening for the first 60 minutes clearly isn't working at all. If there is a plan, he needs a better one. What I'd do if Gayle keeps getting abused by two thug center halves is bring Mitro in there and move Gayle on the left where he'd enjoy more space and would be able to do what Gouffran isn't: make runs between the full back and the center back. Mitrovic isn't a great goal scorer but in some games its just so painfully obvious you need a physical presence there to give someone an extra second or a metre. This is the point though. It's not as simple as that. As fans we seem to look at a problem and think it's as easy as putting a big man up top and hitting him with crosses. Or bringing on some fresh legs and catching them on the break. This can and does work now and again, but it's not the only option. He didn't really use a 'Plan B' yesterday, he presumably hoped that our pressure would eventually pay off. When they scored his answer was to bring on Perez - who he obviously doesn't trust. Perez being a far more technically gifted player than Colback. A pretty clear change, but not one I think he's really comfortable with. He probably got it wrong, hence why we lost, but to suggest he doesn't know how to change a game on the back of this half season is pretty silly.

he's not hitting the level he did with Bournemouth the last time he was down here but he hasn't been bad by any measure. He has more to give but unfortunately he's starting to get the Cisse treatment, so every time he miscues a pass or over-hits a corner the groans come out in full force.

But anyway I'm going to bed, hopefully I've been talking shite and the debate is actually as pleasant and level headed as you've described. Look forward to reading it tomorrow.

You must have loads of people on mute like, because what you're saying sounds like something I've been saying myself and 100% agree with. In hindsight we probably haven't taken the best approach to a couple of games recently. Also in hindsight though we'd have probably played our 4-4-2 with Atsu and Ritchie on the wings and not went on a 9 game win streak. And as bad as we think we've been our recent record is still won 4 lost 2. A more flexible approach might not have been better after all? Who knows.

He's 100% about one formation and that worries me. For me the better managers have flexability and his only flexability seems to be which full back should push on more. FWIW I've never said play 2 up, it doesn't work that way, most teams have a 4-5-1 when out of possession and various ideas when in possession. A worrying thing for me is how often Gayle isn't the furthest forward.....it so rarely happens He is one of the better managers though. He's proven that. I think at the minute he looks inflexible because he's not happy with his bench. There's no chance he wants Perez, Mitrovic and Atsu to be 10 minute cameos every now and then. I just don't think he looks as them and expects them to change anything/do better than the players already on the pitch. Do you think he could get better out of the current squad if we wereent so 4-2-3-1 ? I think another manager could or would - losing 7 games obviously isn't our ceiling. I don't think he's done the best him or anyone else could in the circumstances but it's just the way it is. I'm not worried though and I'm pretty safe knowing he actually has a plan and is working hard to fix things - and will fix things.

That's not what he said Hans. But we all know You're fond of taking the piss out of people based on your own personal inability to rationalise. Does it make you feel good? cos it doesn't make you look good. Given the options available today, it would have been perfectly reasonable to play 442 with Hayden and Diame in the centre, Ritchie and Atsu on the wings and Gayle with Mitro up front. Nothing to say we would have battered them with that line up, but you can bet your arse they wouldn't have been prepared for it. I never said that's what he said did I? I wasn't being fucking literal And are you seriously pulling me up on my inability to rationalise in this thread? If you've read the forum the general gist is that Rafa just needs to make x sub and we win the game, or start with 2 up top and we'd score 4. If you cannot see that then I don't really know what to say like, it's definitely there and has been since the start of the season. I think that is what you think. Nobody has said two up top we will score 4. Although our one comback victory we scored 3. And waiting until the death to tweak a side thats losing well....... Waste of time discussing. You admit you prefer 442 but feel happy that Rafa knows what hes doing. The argument for this is your simply satisfied and hope because of his track record he knows what hes doing and theres nothing to be concerned about. I cannot argue with that bit like

He's 100% about one formation and that worries me. For me the better managers have flexability and his only flexability seems to be which full back should push on more. FWIW I've never said play 2 up, it doesn't work that way, most teams have a 4-5-1 when out of possession and various ideas when in possession. A worrying thing for me is how often Gayle isn't the furthest forward.....it so rarely happens He is one of the better managers though. He's proven that. I think at the minute he looks inflexible because he's not happy with his bench. There's no chance he wants Perez, Mitrovic and Atsu to be 10 minute cameos every now and then. I just don't think he looks as them and expects them to change anything/do better than the players already on the pitch.

That's not what he said Hans. But we all know You're fond of taking the piss out of people based on your own personal inability to rationalise. Does it make you feel good? cos it doesn't make you look good. Given the options available today, it would have been perfectly reasonable to play 442 with Hayden and Diame in the centre, Ritchie and Atsu on the wings and Gayle with Mitro up front. Nothing to say we would have battered them with that line up, but you can bet your arse they wouldn't have been prepared for it. I never said that's what he said did I? I wasn't being fucking literal And are you seriously pulling me up on my inability to rationalise in this thread? If you've read the forum the general gist is that Rafa just needs to make x sub and we win the game, or start with 2 up top and we'd score 4. If you cannot see that then I don't really know what to say like, it's definitely there and has been since the start of the season.

That's the point though, we look at the league and think "this is easy, just pay 2 up top and blow teams away" but in reality a lot more has to go on behind the scenes for that to happen. Same with just bringing on a sub I'd assume. Rafa isn't like Keegan, pretty much the opposite, he's 100% about tactics. Maybe sometimes that gets in the way and we'd have been better off in hindsight doing something else. But across the whole season we're 2nd and looking to bring in more suitable players this month. We're not doing bad, we're actually doing very well, and it's down to Rafa and his tactics.

Why 442 Because as I said I have little clue what I'm talking about.

And I'd like us to set up 4-4-2, but I'm not a football manager and generally have little clue what the fuck I'm going onabout. Probably not the best man for the job like.

"Over thinking this league" Keep reading that and it's utter horse shite like. Just hoy 11 players out and tell them to attack, we'll blow teams away!!!

It makes is fucking sick.

That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.?? The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing. http://img.picturequotes.com/2/545/544795/giving-up-quote-1.jpg Unless you mean 'expecting him to know what he's doing'? He's a manager who consistently wins trophies, he obviously knows what he's doing. Him not making subs until whenever he fancies isn't bad management because some FM experts wanted to bring Murphy on 10 minutes earlier. I'm not saying he got tonight right, or the Wednesday game right. It's fine to disagree with his decisions. But he obviously has a reason for what he's doing, he's not just winging it like Carver. People are acting like he's fucking clueless, it's absurd.

That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.?? The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing. http://img.picturequotes.com/2/545/544795/giving-up-quote-1.jpg Get to the point.

That's Norwich who are now 15 points behind us. We're definitely doomed though, now we're only 2nd with 63 points left to play for. You dont think we should try to look at the potential defeat we have turned into one positive,and the 7 we have not. Just carry on, dont question anything. And be happy when we look utter shit vs weak opponents.?? The point is that we haven't been 'shite' and that Rafa's stubborness actually has us in 2nd place. We're overreacting to a bad run of form like we were back then. He's identified areas we need to strengthen so he sees the problems. Him not changing up the formation is just something we're going to have to live with knowing that his record suggests he knows what he's doing.

KI is right like, it's pointless even trying to debate with some of this fuckng nonesense. Best off just wait until we turn it around and stay out of this thread for my own sanity after a loss.

Aye I thought he did shite for it. It was a clever freekick but you shouldn't be beaten there.

although this is mainly us minus Shelvey. He has his off game now and then but he single handedly turns us from mid-table plodders to runaway Championship winners