ExiledGeordie

I accept it seems strange he started the match away in Russia but you make it sound like complete incompetence from the medical team. If the up to date scans have been done and show nothing, the player's reporting no problems in training consistently then I don't see what else they could've done really. They've followed normal guidelines. You've missed my point man, I'm probably not being clear. So I'm sorry. To put it simply, experts in their respected field gave the green light to play and Hatem probably felt ok to play so he did. I'm not blaming anyone. The exact opposite. It's nobody's fault based on the information we have. Unless there is some poor judgement or mistake on someone's spot not adhering to medical advice or listening to Hatem if he didn't want to play. It's an injury that looked healed and he triggered something again. It's out of everyone's hands in my opinion - poor luck, poor Hatem and poor us for missing such an exciting and brilliant player for us. Not many medically trained people on here for what i know- think its a bit naive of people to judge otherwise. I really enjoy this board alot, and really like nearly every poster on here- but people on here need to lose the hysteria a bit, relax, and just hope he recovers for his career and for our club. Apologies misinterpretation

I didn't mean to sound like I was saying you were blaming people. Plenty of others, but not you. People are hysterical, man. Blaming Pardew for seemingly taking and looking at the scans of Ben Arfa's leg, massaging it through his rehabilitation, loooking at his aura to see any signs of match readiness. It's ridiculous, man. He was told he could be eased in, Ben Arfa will have wanted to play, he's also previously said he feels fine. He was okay during the game, off the pace but didn't look injured. There will have been literally no difference to him needing an operation by playing him against say Wigan this weekend or playing him earlier against Anzhi. So why is everyone going on about him being selected for the Anzhi game? Well said

I accept it seems strange he started the match away in Russia but you make it sound like complete incompetence from the medical team. If the up to date scans have been done and show nothing, the player's reporting no problems in training consistently then I don't see what else they could've done really. They've followed normal guidelines.

Nothing confirmed yet, probably back for City I reckon.

Out of interest, how many players do you know who have had the opportunity to "start for 60 minutes away from home in sub-zero temperatures on a dodgy surface as their return game back from a lengthy layoff."? Other than of course players who ply their trade in countries like Russia, and therefore will indeed "start for 60 minutes away from home in sub-zero temperatures on a dodgy surface as their return game back from a lengthy layoff." Zero off the top of my head, but you don't need to have experience of a given flame you've not seen before being hot, to know you probably shouldn't stick your hand in it. FWIW, when he returns from injury, I probably wouldn't start HBA for 60 minutes against any opposition we happen to be facing at the time who also happen to ply their trade on any other unfamiliar surface where we know injuries can be aggravated/exacerbated (cf. Jonas/Shola). He played most of the game against Tottenham though at the start of the season and looked excellent, I don't really think it matters about how long you play or the surface if you are physically fit ("match fit" just being how sharp you are)? I'm not a physio therapist like, but that's how I've always seen it, and I don't think a player should be playing AT ALL if he isn't fully recovered from his injury, regardless of the pitch an temperature. To me it looks like we've thought the injury was gone, and regardless of whether he played 60 minutes in Russia or 20 minutes in the Bahamas there was always going to be an unseen risk of him aggravating his hamstring. Mate, it's all a bit of a moot non-argument for me. Like you, I'm no physiotherapist (and I'd be happy enough for someone with the relevant knowledge to stick their oar in and set me straight if need be) and I'd also be in favour of veering on the side of caution in not letting injured players play if they're in the least injured, but even when players recover from injury - starting matches is uncommon. They have cameo appearances off the bench to build fitness in a real-tempo environment, and to recover sharpness. I don't think I'd be wrong to say it's at least uncommon for players to return from injury in such a manner, starting a game. You can't reduce the risk of re-aggravating an injury to nil, but I'd say you could certainly mitigate the chances more than we did. As for the surface, I'm not agree - but again, have no scientific expertise to back me up on this. My friend, who is a fairly serious cross-country runner, told me to run on grass instead of on the pavement around my park because with each step we take, we apparently put three times our bodyweight on our knee-joints when we run on concrete. He may be talking bollocks, it may not be applicable to HBA etc etc,..... but it doesn't seem unfathomable to me that the surface you play/run on could contribute to the wear and tear of our bodies I accept we were possibly back into a corner by Cisse being injured though. Anyway, not going to bother discussing about it any further, all a bit depressing/pointless mulling over it now. I'll ask my MSK Physio tutor at Northumbria next week at Uni Beren and get his take on it. We did talk about his injury when it first happened and he was saying what a bugger they are to deal with because they're so unpredictable.

Pardew just said in an interview with Lowes on total sport saying Ben Arfa had had all the fitness tests, the medical team had done the scans and he'd had uninterrupted training of more than 2 weeks leading up to the away leg in Russia. So he'd been given clearance to play as nothing was showing to suggest he shouldn't. Just sounds to me like one of those unfortunate things, nobody to blame, the injury is just a really complex bugger of an injury that's all. Until the lad plays and you see how the muscle responds you'll never know. It's not like he came off in trouble and was apparently walking around fine after the match.

He could be out for a lot longer than this season. It might be he's out for this year. Based on what, your own monotonous negativity? Based on the fact he's been f***ed for 6 months or so already and he's starting from scratch again. I understand fully your disappointment and frustration but prepare for the fact he could and probably is going to be a long term absentee. Lets hope not though. He hasn't been f***ed for 6 months or so already though has he He got injured in November and if he's out for a full 6 months from now (it may be less) that's mid September. I'm realistic about his injury I just think you've taken an overly negative reaction to this and exaggerated things.

I agree it seems pretty daft to start him out there but as none of us are qualified to comment we can't then start slating the medical team (not saying you are mate - others have been in this thread) The medical team might have followed protocol to the nth degree, checked scans, done the tests on him in training and all of it pointed to a successful return. Only when a player goes back into full speed action will you really know how they're responding or more to the point how the area reacts afterwards. It's taken a specialist to suggest surgery and it sound to me like whether it was a plastic pitch or grass, a 20 min cameo or a 40 min appearance, the situation was going to rear it's head anyway if its to the extent that surgery is required.

He could be out for a lot longer than this season. It might be he's out for this year. Based on what, your own monotonous negativity?

You better throw in the expertise of the Clairefontaine French centre too the, they clearly had as little an idea about the severity of this. Shit happens, it's a kick in the nuts but some of the over reactions are ridiculous.

Yeah there's some ridiculous toys out of the pram comments emerging

Two week break after Wigan, I'd say they'll aim for the City match

True, hamstrings especially are always weaker after injury.

Sounds like its a very complicated injury and hamstrings are probably the worst to treat and come back from.

They may not have thought it was necessary then?

Will score again on Sunday

Yep we could ddinitely do with his influence for games like this

Spot on and the fact Wigan will be more open might suit us. There's pressure on them to get a result here. For all their escape acts in recent seasons a loss here would really screw them.

Quite enjoyed being in the bowl of the north west corner last night as opposed to my usual spots in the Gallowgate

Having someone at the back with real pace gives us another dimension in defence, great stuff.

Fair forgot that chasm of a mistake, owned etc. Still think he's class though

Not sure how you can give Mbiwa 6.5, I don't think he put a foot wrong all night.

At the moment Perch does that role better keeping it simple

Santon right back, Haidara left back, confirmed Cabaye, Tiote, ANita midfield Marv and Sissoko either side of Cisse

Same here