Shays Given Tim Flowers

Wales Manager. They were making good progress under Speed and then appointed that useless muppet.

That last game of the season at Goodison Park. Champion's performance that.

Is he Arsehole french? I'd like that.

If true, Garde probably represents the most thoughtful and considered appointment for a long, long time.

We we're in a crippling stasis. Someone needs to go upside his head.

He literally can't say he disagreed with it. The only way for a Judge to work around what he felt was an unjust verdict would be leniency on Sentence. Though it is improper to do so.

Ian Watkins still posts.

That transfer window is passing by.

Personally I think this is mental, especially in cases where we know there's a massive grey area. There isn't a massive grey area, though, that is the point. Any lack of clarity in this is caused mostly by Evans's actions and those of his bankrollers since he came out of prison. That's precisely what I meant when I referred to the way he has acted. Evans was found guilty of rape by a jury. By law, a conviction has to be "beyond all reasonable doubt". Any grey area added to that exists purely because of Evans and his team. It is a grey area though as rape, in this way, isn't exactly a single identifiable action. It's not like being caught on CCTV walking into ASDA and walking out with a tele. There's a lot more to it than that. I'm not saying he's innocent, I'm just uneasy about saying he's 100% guilty because that's the verdict that was given. Brummie, I have seen firsthand people who were probably innocent, convicted and vice versa. Juries sometimes make strange decisions, it's rare but it can and does happen. Hans, obviously you can read up on the case and form your own conclusions about the factual basis of his conviction. That said, as a society as a whole we must treat people who are convicted of an offence (by a lay Jury no less) of being guilty of the offence, subject to any appeals.

Personally I think this is mental, especially in cases where we know there's a massive grey area. It's not mental. At some point you have to have a bottom line in order to make a decision about what action to take. His conviction was 'safe' as evidenced by the Court of Appeal Judgment. As a point of public principle you have to recognise the findings of a Jury of lay people.

Ironic.

Arthur Cox was manager of Chesterfield before he became our manager and Kevin Keegan had spent 8 years on the golf course on the Costa Del Sol and had no managerial experience whatsoever when he became our manager. KK even admitted that he'd been out of the game for so long he had to spend time learning about the game again and finding out who he knew who was still in the game and could trust. Everyone has to start somewhere and not every top manager starts at the top either. Pardew went from League One to Fifth too.

eh, what legal right? Yes he is legally allowed, but this is not the same as a right. I'm fairly sure that I'd find it near impossible to get back in to my field of work if I were a convicted rapist, and I'm not even in the public eye. Yes I think he should be allowed to work, no I do not believe that he has a right to be paid footballer, that's a privilege not a right. I don't believe for one second that Oldham would be so interested in signing him if it were not for the fact he is far better than anyone else they could normally afford; amazing value for money because his reputation is so damaged. He has a legal right to seek employment in whatever field he so chooses. The only reason he's not already playing football again is due to the pressure being exerted on clubs that would otherwise have signed him ages back. wo But why should he be allowed back? Would you be happy if he was employed to work alongside your missus? First works do where she has a few too many shandys would you expect him to get her a taxi to ensure that she gets home safe and sound, or do you think he'd take advantage and have her panties down and be in balls deep before you can say 'Why did they employ him?' Because the law permits him to. Similarly it permits employers to not offer him employment based on his conviction. You're making an issue where there isn't one.

That or Sissoko is being sold.

I'd far rather they played at Chelsea away than in the FA Cup. Unless we look like getting relegated at any point, the remainder of our games are a dead rubber. It's the 8th of January.

You could talk about floor tiles over a latte.

Statistically their most successful manager in History. Oh well then, in that case I'm in. Win percentage of 36.9%

Statistically their most successful manager in History.

Dont like flesh on the bone. It's funny because a woman was raped.

Ched is entitled to go back to football. Football is entitled to turn its back on him.

No, but you can't away from the fact that children look up to footballers as role models. We all had replica shirts with our favourite player's name on the back, posters on the wall, hanging on their every word on TV/radio etc. If that isn't a position of trust, I don't know what is.

But he doesn't work with Children? On a practical level I think any club will be very careful about using in any sort of youth ambassadorial role.

Why not? If he was a teacher, he wouldn't be allowed to go back. Yeah, but that would be because of laws that stop sex offenders working with children. As far as I'm aware there's not such law for most jobs. It comes down to interpretation. The law on working with children was changed to "position of trust". In my eyes, a footballer is in a "position of trust", especially with the amounts of work they do in the community these days and how the media portrays them. I would be willing to show him some remorse with he showed some himself btw. Can you clear up which context you are using position of trust. For example of position of trust may be an aggravating feature in a case, or a specific criminal offence. But I don't think there was a sexual offences prevention order made for Evans after conviction that prevents him from having contact with young people.

I'm not sure there is a valid public protection argument stopping him from going back to football.

This is it for me. As for the idea that he's being hounded from every job opportunity because of how he phrases things is f***ing ludicrous tbh. Saying "my infidelity" is stupid but it's not the reason he's being hunted down at every opportunity. He's at the centre of a massive witch hunt, there's nothing else to it. Every single interview I hear about the case involving someone from a group that campaigns against rape and violence against women etc specifically refers to the fact that he's shown no remorse or made any sort of apology. It's almost always the first thing they say in response to the question about whether he should be given a second chance. Like it or not, there are clearly a lot of emotions riding on what he has said since being convicted. Michael Shields was convicted of murder in Bulgaria but all along he wanted to prove his innocence. During his time in prison I didn't hear him apologising or showing any remorse for the murder simply because he didn't do it. If Ched Evans believes he didn't rape the lass then there is no reason for him to apologise or show remorse. You're missing my point. I don't think he should apologise for something he believes he didn't do. But there are ways and means of currying favour with the public and IMO he and his family and friends have done the complete opposite. Lee Hughes is often cited as a player who was also convicted of a heinous crime yet was allowed to continue his career. Well the difference is he showed remorse. I think it's almost certain that Evans was advised how to 'pitch' himself after his release. Probably aye. If the aim was to help him back into society and back into professional football, they've done a pitiful job. It's a difficult PR exercise. I guess they thought if he maintains innocence some people will give him the benefit of the doubt and in time, as people moved on it may then opposition would have become less hostile. The real problem for Evans is not the media but the football community. If football fans don't welcome him back he doesn't really have a lot of options. It's problematic because he can't go abroad whilst on licence.