Kid Icarus

American owners doesn't really mean anything though does it? You could be talking about people and business outlooks as diverse as Warren Buffet or Charles Koch.

Just goes to show how far people can go in overlooking things if there's the possibility of their material interests being looked after. If people can not only overlook, but defend Saudi barbarism because their football club might improve, it should now be a no-brainer why things like poor people voting for Trump in the rust belt happened and will continue to happen.

I suppose it depends on what hindsight might show us, if for whatever reason the Saudi deal doesn't go ahead.

This stinks of opponents of Saudi deal in media saying hey look newcastle fans there’s another option here. In reality there is no other bid and who ever breaks this story will be interesting. Or Mike Ashley just being Mike Ashley and doing something he's done countless times now - invent bids and leak them to the media in order to try and perk up interest

"Remember everyone, if more people watch and enjoy football for free, the sport as we know it will die!" I'm personally dead against the Saudis taking us over, but it tells you everything you need to know about the priorities and tone deafness of the likes of Keys that they're arguing against the takeover on commercial grounds rather than ethical grounds, while putting forward the idea that the commercialisation of football over the years - something I think many fans would say is what's sucked the soul out of the game - is in fact what gives football its soul. I actually agree that "It matters because if theft of sports rights becomes the norm - sport as we know it dies." I just happen to think it was the likes of Sky that stole it back in the '90s and it's slowly died from then onwards. I'd be more than happy for the sport in its current state to die tbh.

The proof will only ever be in the pudding. We already know how comfortable they are with trying to cover their tracks and telling any lie they can.

Can someone delete my account again please

Went through a phase of not minding him during the Magpie Group phase because he was actually pretty sound and was happy to take the piss out of himself. He doesn't help himself or us with shit like that though and still regularly comes across pretty strongly as being desperate for attention.

What you prattling on about? Again, nobody is doubting their human rights record. Nobody is downplaying it. We are just discussing the likely impact it is likely to have on the takeover. We dont need your virtue signalling in this thread, thanks. It was a joke and it was specifically in reply to someone who flounced off when I disagreed with him, ye div. The level of touchiness over this is getting into projection territory tbh, there's nothing in anything I said in my post that even hints at virtue signalling.

What can I say. These people are the snowflake generation. It's PC gone WILD.

You want to try the at what cost thread. Your stereotypical Football supporters have changed quite a bit. Unless it’s just on here? It IS just on here! Nowhere else is influenced by some of the weird comments that appear on that thread. Reading that thread convinces you that all the evils in the world have been (will be) caused by our Takeover. It is feeble, to put it mildly. It's funny you say that because most of the people I know in real life, including a woman I work with who's been going to matches since the mid '80s, are dead against the takeover or just as conflicted about it all. I don't think it's fair to judge the support overall because it's just as it's been for the entire time I've been supporting the club - split. You want to try the at what cost thread. Your stereotypical Football supporters have changed quite a bit. Unless it’s just on here? It IS just on here! Nowhere else is influenced by some of the weird comments that appear on that thread. Reading that thread convinces you that all the evils in the world have been (will be) caused by our Takeover. It is feeble, to put it mildly. It's funny you say that because most of the people I know in real life, including a woman I work with who's been going to matches since the mid '80s, are dead against the takeover or just as conflicted about it all. I don't think it's fair to judge the support overall because it's just as it's been for the entire time I've been supporting the club - split. I always find when I talk to people with views like yours (in real life) that NOTHING that I or anyone else says to them ever sinks in, but the same type of self-assured words come back at me, time and time and time again. I should not have responded, as I knew what I would get back. This is the end of our conversation. We didn't even start to have one in the first place and I'm not sure what I said to make you think any of that tbh, but suit yourself.

Without wanting to get into talking about a wider political point or whatever, I agree and I think Covid has massively exposed all of the grim, blood-sucking failings of capitalism overall. I do actually agree with this, I'm not a fan of capitalism in general, something has never sat right with me about it. I've often thought socialism has is fundamentally a better intentioned way of life. Getting it to work anywhere in the world seems to be a problem though, especially when you've got all the resources of the capitalist big boys to throw against it. That's one way of describing the violent, CIA-backed coups of any country that dares to nationalise its resources, yeah.

So this is what it feels like to watch an argument from the outside.

You want to try the at what cost thread. Your stereotypical Football supporters have changed quite a bit. Unless it’s just on here? It IS just on here! Nowhere else is influenced by some of the weird comments that appear on that thread. Reading that thread convinces you that all the evils in the world have been (will be) caused by our Takeover. It is feeble, to put it mildly. It's funny you say that because most of the people I know in real life, including a woman I work with who's been going to matches since the mid '80s, are dead against the takeover or just as conflicted about it all. I don't think it's fair to judge the support overall because it's just as it's been for the entire time I've been supporting the club - split.

Apologies, but the whole virtue signalling, snowflake, IDpol bollocks pisses me off as well and I don't think it's fair to apply it to anyone on here, particularly when we're talking about war criminals and not about being triggered over language or whatever. I think everyone, pretty much to a man, has been respectful of everyone else's individual decision tbh.

No. They could have done something and they didn't. And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football? People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything. I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here. Theres tonnes of virtue signalling going on, not just from people in here. Is it bollocks. Not a single person on here has chastised anyone else for not making the same personal decision that they have. The Saudis are human rights abusers and we shouldn't want them owning the club, any arguement to the contrary is either wrong, irrelevant or "whataboutery". Its condescending to anyone who also has a brain, has also weighed up the pros and cons, who had also heard of sports washing before this thing. Bullshit. The argument isn't that you 'shouldn't want them owning the club' at all and I challenge you to find anyone saying that. The argument was that whataboutery is being used to deflect from the fact that the Saudis are human rights abusers. Nothing more, nothing less. As has been said countless times, it's possible to make a decision that each person's conscience is comfortable with, without feeling the need put any and every argument in front of reckoning with the facts about who these people are.

Without wanting to get into talking about a wider political point or whatever, I agree and I think Covid has massively exposed all of the grim, blood-sucking failings of capitalism overall.

No. They could have done something and they didn't. And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football? People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything. I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here. Theres tonnes of virtue signalling going on, not just from people in here. Is it bollocks. Not a single person on here has chastised anyone else for not making the same personal decision that they have.

No. They could have done something and they didn't. And you know something that really pisses me off in life in general and not just football? People who 'care' enough to make a big show to everyone else that they care but don't care enough to actually do anything. I think these points you're making are being shoehorned in tbf like. He made a perfectly fair point and didn't have a go at anyone for their own position, yet you've felt it necessary to make out that he was in order to make a wider point about virtue signalling, which wasn't happening here.

He didn't do that though? He just said it was something to think about then Loki told him to walk away.

He's making a completely fair point.

How many people do you think read the Guardian or Independent to read the views of respected journalists? Most get their news from the Sun or the Daily Mail, so people like Richard Keys and Talksport tossers are the ones getting their point across, at least for the average punter. Where have you plucked that point from? The Guardian has a monthly readership of 55 million, The Independent 50 million. The Daily Mail's is only 5 million more, The Sun's 20 million more. (Source - https://www.newsworks.org.uk/) How far are people going to go to continue making these points? Can you not just admit that the issue has come into your own focus because it's something you pay attention to? Are those online figures? Because I am pretty sure that the Guardian and Independent would have a lot of international readers which would contribute to those figures, whereas the tabloids will generally get only the British readers, and those are the ones who matter in relation to this deal. No one in Korea will give a crap about Richard Keys for example, but people over here will. All of them are combined online and publishing figures, but even then the idea that national press is somehow what matters over international press is backwards. No idea why you'd pursue this line of argument like. Because I live here, and the general consensus of opinion in this country impacts me a lot more than what happens around the world. The takeover is being discussed furiously in this country, but I am guessing in other countries they would probably not even give it a second glance. Isn't that the exact point me and others are trying to make? That it's not Newcastle's being singled out, it's just that your own awareness of this s*** has increased because it's come into your world and that outside of that world there's already a very high level of awareness of MBS and what the Saudis are responsible for? Both worlds have collided and now Newcastle and its fans will be inextricably linked with him and the things he's done, whether we like it or not. The rest of the world won't be that bothered about Newcastle Utd, at least not in my opinion. They might read the article and then shrug their shoulders. More than likely they'll be far more preoccupied with what's going on in their own neck of the woods. FWIW, I've never said we are being singled out, my gripe has never been with Amnesty or political journalists who write for the broadsheets. It's always been about the Paul Mersons, Richard Keys and Martin Samuels. Yes I know they are massive bell-ends, but these are the people with the loudest voices which affect me as a Newcastle supporter. Whether they reach the ears of someone sitting in the Congo is irrelevant to me. I'm not sure why you'd let that bouquet of dicks get to you tbh, but going back to your first point, the rest of the world are bothered about SBM, it doesn't matter if they're aware of Newcastle or not. The rest of the world are bothered about SBM, but not bothered enough to let it get in the way of making money. That's not a criticism btw, just pointing out the reality of how the world works. Are they aware you're speaking on their behalf?

I want to hear Stifler's thoughts on that analogy and to see if he can top it.

How many people do you think read the Guardian or Independent to read the views of respected journalists? Most get their news from the Sun or the Daily Mail, so people like Richard Keys and Talksport tossers are the ones getting their point across, at least for the average punter. Where have you plucked that point from? The Guardian has a monthly readership of 55 million, The Independent 50 million. The Daily Mail's is only 5 million more, The Sun's 20 million more. (Source - https://www.newsworks.org.uk/) How far are people going to go to continue making these points? Can you not just admit that the issue has come into your own focus because it's something you pay attention to? Are those online figures? Because I am pretty sure that the Guardian and Independent would have a lot of international readers which would contribute to those figures, whereas the tabloids will generally get only the British readers, and those are the ones who matter in relation to this deal. No one in Korea will give a crap about Richard Keys for example, but people over here will. All of them are combined online and publishing figures, but even then the idea that national press is somehow what matters over international press is backwards. No idea why you'd pursue this line of argument like. Because I live here, and the general consensus of opinion in this country impacts me a lot more than what happens around the world. The takeover is being discussed furiously in this country, but I am guessing in other countries they would probably not even give it a second glance. Isn't that the exact point me and others are trying to make? That it's not Newcastle's being singled out, it's just that your own awareness of this s*** has increased because it's come into your world and that outside of that world there's already a very high level of awareness of MBS and what the Saudis are responsible for? Both worlds have collided and now Newcastle and its fans will be inextricably linked with him and the things he's done, whether we like it or not. The rest of the world won't be that bothered about Newcastle Utd, at least not in my opinion. They might read the article and then shrug their shoulders. More than likely they'll be far more preoccupied with what's going on in their own neck of the woods. FWIW, I've never said we are being singled out, my gripe has never been with Amnesty or political journalists who write for the broadsheets. It's always been about the Paul Mersons, Richard Keys and Martin Samuels. Yes I know they are massive bell-ends, but these are the people with the loudest voices which affect me as a Newcastle supporter. Whether they reach the ears of someone sitting in the Congo is irrelevant to me. I'm not sure why you'd let that bouquet of dicks get to you tbh, but going back to your first point, the rest of the world are bothered about SBM, it doesn't matter if they're aware of Newcastle or not.