Jonas

Yes. Was either his home or full debut against Derby and he was raw but the star of the show, probably the best solo performance I'd seen a Newcastle player turn in at that point aside from hat-tricks and the like. Never put a performance in like that again on the wing and was intrigued to see a bit of the Bristol Rovers game 4month later over Christmas and that he was as early as that playing full-back.

Maybe not world class, but worth mentioning for the level of anonymity that was reached: Chris Llewellyn at Norwich in 98. Went on record with it too. Liked the cut of his jib. Two stylish goals at Sheffield United. For us - Lua-Lua, once honed by Sir Bobby.

He was plenty criticised for only drawing a few games last season. The people that did it ended up looking daft but it never stopped them then or since.

Yep. Just seems too flat storywise for us to just win comfortably, especially at this point, and as such I cant see it. Shame cos anything short of that isn't worth the risk.

Even allowing for the opposition that was a mess and more angering than any of the others for me because of it. More the performance than result which sometimes is just one of those things. For the first time he is under pressure now, Not from me, but the combination of losing to the mackems enraging/further enraging a good chunk of our fanbase, the basic parameter of recent results and the proclivity of the ownership to listen to fans. If there was a clear alternative it wouldn't surprise me if they took it.

The last time they justifiably booed anything was when Owen went back there with us and he's basically just one of them anyway.

Don't think anybody hates him just merely pointing out that he's a lot more inferior to Pope than many of us feared based on what many of us can see with our own eyes that he instills zero confidence and which is backed up by every parameter (results, goals against) other than one good game, which after a couple month is a pretty modest defence.

It lodged in my mind last season that people wanted Almiron/Murphy or Willock/Longstaff off only to whinge about the lacklustre performance of their replacement. Like the punishment of withdrawal was as far as the thought got and no heed was paid to who the alternative was. Bit like with this injury crisis we should have been tinkering our way through with Christ knows what given we've had three keepers, bairns, a coach and empty slots on the bench but just get those starting XI cunts off

Endorse that. As far as I've read nobody has made Dubravka a scapegoat. With Pope we probably still don't win today. There's a season and a half of evidence backing a marked improvement under Pope if opinions are being dismissed but there's no doubt were down a few perecent across the park which needs just as much attention. Dismissing any part of our play as not needing improved at present isn't constructive, we did only score a penalty but that has to include a keeper that's conceded a shit ton more goals on average than the bloke he replaced otherwise were just scapegoating someone else.

The same year Schmiechel single handedly deprived us of the title when we cut their defence to shreads they got beat 3-0 off York City at Old Trafford with Kevin Pilkington in goal. It wasn't because Bruce, Pallister and Neville had turned to shit. Dubs doesnt deserve comparison to Pilkinngton and he's served us well on the whole and that is an extreme example but it is an exaomple of the difference a keeper can make and how you're allowed to make saves after a defence has been beaten.

The same back four we've had for a year and half that has served us great hasn't coincidentally imploded with the reintroduction of a keeper most of us accepted wasn't as good as he used to be before we loaned him out a year and half ago. That's way too much of a reach to at the absolute minimum, dismiss the counter arguement as insane. The common consensus seemed to be that a new keeper wasn't a priority but when we saw the clip of Pope we held our hands up and said 'fair fucking do's'. Lets not throw the baby out with the bathwater, at the very least, Pope is the better of the two so obviously there's a downturn.

My season ticket as a Juventile for 92/93 (bought in 91/92 probably) was £118.80. Two years later in the same seat and still juvenile was 229.50. A 100% mark up in 2years. Think in the midst of a recession too, that sort of pace has got to be societally changing when newer fans everywhere had every opportunity to go to games cost wise and spacially but rarely did.

Absolutely right. I recall these discussion from the late 90s and was very self-conscious (from a club/game perspective) and pissed off at the time about it. Its not a new (post takeover) thing so we need to eliminate that as causal in search of solutions. Klopp's been on about it this week and if there were two places that weren't bad until the Millennium it was Liverpool and Newcastle. We've all been watered down by the increase in attendances (and ticket prices) and relative success (top league/players) which we all take the benefit of I suppose. It wasn't always great before by any means but just not dead or afraid to chant or make noise.

Its definitely a factor I feel. At the level were talking about that sort minutea could be huge if we recall the levels we played at having belief or otherwise in a keeper does make us play differently. Even if that keeper is a top keeper if he's shot as a defender you cant not be aware of it like when an outfield player hs to take up a position, you'd hoof the c*nt out for a throw in rather than pass back even though its an outfield player, out of sheer percentages.

The defence/Trippier hasn't just started making mistakes. Most defences do. You're not punished for them as regularly as this ordinarily. As good as some of our results have been this and last season, without Pope, were not rueing injury time dodgy penalties against PSG.

Someone should dub Martin Tyler's commentary after Cole scored against Blackburn for us back in the day "just look what it means" over some of those scenes.

A salient but soberingly contemporary point well made. Beautiful game.

Haha. No toothless heedbangers is maybe where weve always gone wrong. Scott, Howey, Peacock, Albert, Woodgate, Schar - not a fucking Moran, Bruce, Adams or Keown anywhere to be seen.

Good shout. He looked the dogs bollocks against Chelsea when he came on I thought. Raw but I was very impressed. No surprise he had a good career. Down the left side iirc too.

That's fair enough mate, I should have stated that but felt there's a point in there somewhere about seemingly little things make a bigger difference than some give credit for. For a team like that to get derailed by one injury etc. etc. Fucking hell though, you forget some things and if we kept Ruel were home and dry. Sellars even. Sods law we sell both and Gillespie gets crocked. KK really had nothing like the blank cheque book some imagine. KK was tinkering too to be fair by then - Guppy's and Brayson's only games were in the LC. Man City in 94 (Mike Jeffrey etc) was needs must tbf. Ferguson started at Brighton in 92, giving the devil his due, they won the league for the first time in 20odd years that season, may have made all the difference.

I didn't say everyone to be fair just that some folks expecations are Man City levels of straight trajectory because I've read it. You don't just get beat off the teams that are above you. Keegan's team got deservedly beaten off Luton too and only scraped a draw at home. Either side of that we were well beaten at Wimbledon. We won 13 straight league games under Keegan and got beat at home off Grimsby to end it. Its not too relevant but it is football.

Dalglishian

A lot of people say we lost the title in 1996 because Gillespie got injured for a few month and they're probably not wrong given it would only have took a few more points that we'd likely have gotten just off his presence/balance alone. Howe's been without ten Gillespies and some are condemning him.

`100% behind him. Just thought it worth reiterating

Yeah that was forgotten at the time but he blatantly wasn't a long-term thing. More a Sheedy/Killer situation.