Shay Concedes 7 in Three Games

[Offshore]

Given had no real chance with the goals yesterday, and i'm not blaming the defense for all three either, the Mpenza(?) goal maybe, but Man City played excellently and scored three cracking goals. Haven't seen the Arsenal goals but read/heard they were similar in that they were more good build-up play and cross/shot than the defence going to sleep.

 

Wouldn't be losing any sleep worrying about whether Given or Harper was in nets. Get the right folk in midfield and we'll be better than ok this year.

[Cajun]

Given was lousy yesteray. In the long run , he is a fantastic keeper though.

 

 

 

Made a world class save and I don't know what he could have down about the goals.

[sempuki]

Harper didn't deserved to get dropped and he knows no matter how well he plays he'll never be first choice. His motivation must be shot to pieces and surely no one will blame him if he puts in a transfer request.

 

Not that I don't rate Given, far from it but I think if you put the performances in you deserve to keep the shirt.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

Is Given now the new Shearer?

 

Undropable due to his past form regardless of how well his replacement was doing?

[Mr. Snrub]

No he's just number 1 because he's much better than Harper.

 

If Cech got injured, would he stay on the bench once fit if Cudicini played a few good games? No.

 

People clearly being bias because Harper is a local lad, imo.

[ohmelads]

Given was lousy yesteray. In the long run , he is a fantastic keeper though.

 

 

 

Made a world class save and I don't know what he could have down about the goals.

 

Well, he could have saved them. To be fair to Given, he made himself big to stop Elano when through on goal, when most people would have expected a goal. He also made a good save to stop Elano's volley earlier in the game. He didn't have a bad game, but I don't think either of their first two goals were unstoppable with quicker feet and better positioning. I wouldn't single him out for criticism either though, because these things happen.

 

His confidence (which is massive for goalkeepers, just look at Robinson) looks a bit low, not surprising given he's been out the side when fit for the first time. I wasn't sure what to make of playing Harper, he dropped quite a lot of clangers last season and there's no doubt in my mind that Shay is a better 'keeper. But if you're going to go down the "players pick themselves" route then you have to stick with it, and Harper has done nothing to be dropped. There doesn't seem any consistency in the decision to restore Given.

[Guest Kenton Magpie]

Kneejerk-tastic

[midds]

I think Given's got enough quality games in the bank to justify sticking with him after a few dodgy moments. He's still very much in credit imo.

[jack j]

Given was lousy yesteray. In the long run , he is a fantastic keeper though.

 

 

 

:lol: :lol: fucking mong

[Guest GAMMELL]

Given was lousy yesteray. In the long run , he is a fantastic keeper though.

 

 

 

Un-f*cking-believable!! Which game were you watching yesterday lad ?

[ohmelads]

I think Given's got enough quality games in the bank to justify sticking with him after a few dodgy moments. He's still very much in credit imo.

 

I agree.

 

However, it seems a bit inconsistent of the manager to say that form players pick themselves and then drop the form player. Wouldn't you agree that if you go down that route you should stick with it, rather than drop an in-form player? I feel safer with Given between the sticks, but Sam's gone down this route and after a few games in which Harper has hardly put a foot wrong, he's gone back on his word and put Given back in.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

Harper didn't deserved to get dropped and he knows no matter how well he plays he'll never be first choice. His motivation must be shot to pieces and surely no one will blame him if he puts in a transfer request.

 

Not that I don't rate Given, far from it but I think if you put the performances in you deserve to keep the shirt.

 

Martins deserved to keep the shirt to on that basis, and Owen shouldn't have got back in or get back in again.

 

Harper's been OK, no more.  Given is a better keeper and gets back in.

[midds]

I think Given's got enough quality games in the bank to justify sticking with him after a few dodgy moments. He's still very much in credit imo.

 

I agree.

 

However, it seems a bit inconsistent of the manager to say that form players pick themselves and then drop the form player. Wouldn't you agree that if you go down that route you should stick with it, rather than drop an in-form player?

 

I would...but the only reason Harper got his game was down to Given picking up an injury. It wasn't lack of form. He's now fit so he should come straight back and start every game until he loses his place for playing poorly.  In my opinion obviously.

[ohmelads]

I think Given's got enough quality games in the bank to justify sticking with him after a few dodgy moments. He's still very much in credit imo.

 

I agree.

 

However, it seems a bit inconsistent of the manager to say that form players pick themselves and then drop the form player. Wouldn't you agree that if you go down that route you should stick with it, rather than drop an in-form player?

 

I would...but the only reason Harper got his game was down to Given picking up an injury. It wasn't lack of form. He's now fit so he should come straight back and start every game until he loses his place for playing poorly.  In my opinion obviously.

 

That's fair enough. I can live with the decision as I think Given is the better keeper and I get the feeling it's only a matter of time before Harper's form runs out and he shows the kind of mistakes he did last season. I think Given should have been restored when he returned from fitness, but when Sam decided Harper shouldn't be dropped I thought he would stick with that. Harper has been very good so far in fairness to him, he had been justifying Sam's faith in him. If keeping an in-form Harper in the team sends out the right message, what message does dropping an in-form Harper send out?

[Ronaldo]

Shay is so reliant on his agility, moreso than any keeper I've ever seen at this level, he's not gonna have that for much longer.  And then what does he have? his fantastic organisation skills and box domination?

 

fan of Shay but when we have an entirely new back four (almost) we need a goalkeeper who will communicate and organise. That was very blatantly lacking yesterday

[Mick]

 

I would...but the only reason Harper got his game was down to Given picking up an injury. It wasn't lack of form. He's now fit so he should come straight back and start every game until he loses his place for playing poorly.  In my opinion obviously.

 

I don't see what the reason for going out has to do with any player coming back, if a player is doing well when he's playing in the team, he should keep his place until that player does something to lose it.

 

I've never liked a player walking back into the team just because he's fit.  It sends the wrong message to the player who comes in and does well, a player should know that he will be rewarded for putting in good performances.  That is the incentive to come in and do well, that is what will drive the players on to do better, it's dangling the carrot.

[McCormick]

Shay is so reliant on his agility, moreso than any keeper I've ver seen at this level, he's not gonna have that for much longer.  And then what does he have? his fantastic organisation skills and box domination?

 

fan of Shay but when we have an entirely new back four (almost) we need a goalkeeper who will communicate and organise. That was very blatantly lacking yesterday

 

 

Surely the defence was under more pressure because they were up against some amazing wingers and attacking players. Harper's biggest test was west-ham (comeon wigan? boro? a crappy bolton team? derby?) and was simply a spectator when derby scored against us.

 

Remember Given let in 5 goals against Arsenal and Mancity  ffs..

and let's not forget how many times shay has saved our arses in the past

any old excuse to complain though

[midds]

 

I would...but the only reason Harper got his game was down to Given picking up an injury. It wasn't lack of form. He's now fit so he should come straight back and start every game until he loses his place for playing poorly.  In my opinion obviously.

 

I don't see what the reason for going out has to do with any player coming back, if a player is doing well when he's playing in the team, he should keep his place until that player does something to lose it.

 

I've never liked a player walking back into the team just because he's fit.  It sends the wrong message to the player who comes in and does well, a player should know that he will be rewarded for putting in good performances.  That is the incentive to come in and do well, that is what will drive the players on to do better, it's dangling the carrot.

 

I just think that he lost his place through no fault of his own. He picked up a knock and couldn't play and Harper came in and deputised for 6 weeks or so. Now he's fit, I think he deserves his place back.

 

Harper did ok, not great but not bad, served his purpose and now should revert to the role he seems happy to have accepted.

 

Can see where you're coming from though.

[Mick]

 

 

Surely the defence was under more pressure because they were up against some amazing wingers and attacking players. Harper's biggest test was west-ham (comeon wigan? boro? a crappy bolton team? derby?) and was simply a spectator when derby scored against us.

 

Remember Given let in 5 goals against Arsenal and Mancity  ffs..

and let's not forget how many times shay has saved our arses in the past

any old excuse to complain though

 

I'm not sure either keeper would have saved any of the goals that the other let in, both are good keepers who have saved our arses at times.

[Guest SLK]

Given's problem is that he doesn't go out to punch high balls being crossed from the wings like the 2nd goal who I think Given could have challenged the ball in the air and not let it land on M'Penza's head who had to lay so low on the ground to head it into the net...

 

Few other moments during the game happened that volleyed balls were coming to the penalty area and Given wasn't moving at all from his line but only relying on his defenders to head the ball while it is ok to do that sometimes but other times it would be easier if the goal keeper take charge and punch these long high balls as the goalie can reacher higher than a player with his head...

[ohmelads]

Shay is so reliant on his agility, moreso than any keeper I've ever seen at this level, he's not gonna have that for much longer.  And then what does he have? his fantastic organisation skills and box domination?

 

fan of Shay but when we have an entirely new back four (almost) we need a goalkeeper who will communicate and organise. That was very blatantly lacking yesterday

 

I agree about his weaknesses in general but yesterday our problems were 40 yards further up the pitch, where we constantly held a high defensive line (even when 1-0 in front) against players with guile and pace and got punished for it. Shay can't be blamed if his defence wanders up to the halfway line and gets punished by a ball over the top or a through ball. I don't know if we were trying to play the offside trap or what but whatever it was, it didn't work at all.

[The College Dropout]

Ahhhh.. the old Shay Given discussion.

 

He's so over-rated by bour fans it is unbelievable.

[olliemort]

Anyone who thinks Harper is even close to Given in terms of quality needs their f****** heads checked.  If we didn't have Shay for the past 10 years f*** knows where we'd be now.

 

I know this is a blatant wind up, but it's just giving the odd clueless c*** a reason to blame Given for defeats like yesterday.

 

:clap:Exactly,Im getting pissed of reading some of the riduclous shit some people are typing here!

[Yorkie]

 

I would...but the only reason Harper got his game was down to Given picking up an injury. It wasn't lack of form. He's now fit so he should come straight back and start every game until he loses his place for playing poorly.  In my opinion obviously.

 

I don't see what the reason for going out has to do with any player coming back, if a player is doing well when he's playing in the team, he should keep his place until that player does something to lose it.

 

 

So what; we wait for him to make the inevitable match-losing mistake or two, then drop him? Great selection policy.   You play your best players.

[Optimistic Nut]

Given's two games came against Arsenal & Man City away. Harper hasn't had one game against opposition of that standard.