Steve McClaren

[mozy]

Colback should be our left back. He'd make a decent(ish) old school 1990s full back that can pass but not get further than 3 quarters of the way up the pitch and put in deep crosses when needed. Would help to free Thauvin a little from having to bust a gut after losing possession, as a counter-attack down his flank would be well defended (in terms of a body there, rather than the ability of the defender).

 

It would also have the advantage of keeping a "Geordie" on the pitch and in theory better ball-playing ability in defence. Having played centre-mid for a few years Colback should be more calm and composed under pressure than Haidara and so passes on the floor rather than hopeful channel balls should follow.

 

(I appreciate a lot of this post is optimistic as to Colback's abilities a but at least it gets him out of centre mid.)

 

Dummett would literally offer all of this, and actually knows how to play left back.

[Altamullan]

I was always under the impression that 'keeping things ticking' was simply about keeping the ball moving and feeding the more creative players with short passes. It's a phrase/cliché/however you feel about it more suited to a  water-carrier type midfielder than a deep-lying playmaker. Along those lines, I don't think it's too bad a description for Anita tbh. I could well be just talking s**** however.

 

It was me that started the whole "making things tick" bollocks. What I meant was that McClaren has identified it as a role in his team,  regardless of the individual. Anita is the man who he picked for that position.

 

Personally I think Anita's role in the team is vital in how McClaren wants to play.

 

Colback on the other hand is in an expendable position. Both Sissoko and Wijnaldum could both play there and offer more to our team. Where as neither could play in Anita's deeper role, nor would be suitable to it IMO.

 

I'll pretend Tiote doesn't exist because he offers nothing in this set up. He certainly couldnt do Anita's job and would offer even less in terms of creativity in Colbacks position.

 

At least we have options for a change.

 

Do we know that SMc sees them as having different roles? I had assumed that he wantefd them to be the 'two' in the double six (i.e. the two who join the four attacking roles, or the four defensive roles).

[mozy]

Anita certainly plays deeper than Colback, although at times they have occupied the same role and position.

[TRon]

Colback definitely doesn't keep things 'ticking over'. The opposite imo. 'Ticking over' for me means keeping our fluidity or keeping possession to build something. Colback very often plays a little ball back to Coloccini, or Haidara, or Anita because he hasn't got the confidence and/or ability to actually make something happen.

 

I'm not a fan of Colback, but he does usually retain the ball and make the pass 9/10 times. Of course it will be a safe pass, which would be fine if he was the midfield holding player and he could do that job without Anita or Tiote there as insurance. As it is, he's not a defensive or attacking player, just another body in midfield doing nothing much. At least with Anita or Tiote you could say your job is to protect the back four and get the ball out from there. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be here.

[The College Dropout]

Colback and Anita are both meh players. I don't see why Anita is considered far superior tbh (assuming we're actually judging players on what they contribute to the side).

Yeah. Both have strengths and weaknesses, neither good enough to help us really control games.

 

I do lean towards Anita if we have to include one (and we do), though.

 

This.

[mrmojorisin75]

I was always under the impression that 'keeping things ticking' was simply about keeping the ball moving and feeding the more creative players with short passes. It's a phrase/cliché/however you feel about it more suited to a  water-carrier type midfielder than a deep-lying playmaker. Along those lines, I don't think it's too bad a description for Anita tbh. I could well be just talking shite however.

 

It was me that started the whole "making things tick" bollocks. What I meant was that McClaren has identified it as a role in his team,  regardless of the individual. Anita is the man who he picked for that position.

 

Personally I think Anita's role in the team is vital in how McClaren wants to play.

 

Colback on the other hand is in an expendable position. Both Sissoko and Wijnaldum could both play there and offer more to our team. Where as neither could play in Anita's deeper role, nor would be suitable to it IMO.

 

I'll pretend Tiote doesn't exist because he offers nothing in this set up. He certainly couldnt do Anita's job and would offer even less in terms of creativity in Colbacks position.

 

At least we have options for a change.

 

i see "making things tick" for us as being the link between keeper/defence and midfield/attack...his role is to constantly find space, look for the ball, keep the ball, move it on to the next player, move into space to give options for a pass to the player he's passed to or just where there is natural space...his role is the cog that enables the rest of it to work, it's pretty fucking obvious what it means tbh

 

if you watched our games in the last two seasons under pardew/carver then under mclaren there's a definite role there and a definite change in style that we've adopted with anita central to this

 

my apologies to TCD for not being able to come out with some shite like gegenpress or shuttler but if you watch the games it's fucking obvious that anita does make us tick when we have possession of the ball

 

now there's clearly an argument that this is being applied too deep and we'd be better off with the way cabaye "made us tick" in his last few months from a more advanced position but that's something else entirely

[Guest]

Colback definitely doesn't keep things 'ticking over'. The opposite imo. 'Ticking over' for me means keeping our fluidity or keeping possession to build something. Colback very often plays a little ball back to Coloccini, or Haidara, or Anita because he hasn't got the confidence and/or ability to actually make something happen.

 

I'm not a fan of Colback, but he does usually retain the ball and make the pass 9/10 times. Of course it will be a safe pass, which would be fine if he was the midfield holding player and he could do that job without Anita or Tiote there as insurance. As it is, he's not a defensive or attacking player, just another body in midfield doing nothing much. At least with Anita or Tiote you could say your job is to protect the back four and get the ball out from there. If they can't do that then they shouldn't be here.

 

That's my point though. He doesn't build play, he sets us back by giving it to a defender or Anita. Most average footballers would have a high pass percentage doing what Colback does. I'd sooner see his stats dip 10-15% and see him try and actually do something.

[buzza]

problem Mclaren has is that both of them are so similar and he really needs one of them to push on up the field a little bit. The fact that our centre backs now pull out wide and the full backs move up and past the half way line means that the "pivots" (two holding CMs) drop into that space between our area and centre circle to receive the ball, our problem is that both of them seem to play only sideways and drop far too deep, one of them should be playing a more "cabaye" like role slightly further forward.

The solution is simple, and by what is being prnted about de jong, and may come about on Monday:

Drop one of anita/colback, bring Wijnaldum back into midfield and put de jong into the No10 spot.... VOILA!

[The College Dropout]

I've never seen ANita make us tick with the ball.

 

It looks like SMC wants he and Colback in there to fulfil similar functions. Mostly around ball retention and defensive solidarity. With Colback more licence and ability to get forward... but only marginally so. Would like one of them benched. Pref Colback.

[buzza]

I've never seen ANita make us tick with the ball.

 

It looks like SMC wants he and Colback in there to fulfil similar functions. Mostly around ball retention and defensive solidarity. With Colback more licence and ability to get forward... but only marginally so. Would like one of them benched. Pref Colback.

Prefer colback to be benched or to play? my own preference is colback plays, Anita flatters to decieve for me...

[mozy]

Wijnaldum is the only player in the squad who could potentially play the role that Colback currently plays, but even that is a total unknown. Anita has looked a great deal more comfortable this season playing in a passing team and being allowed to drop deep and start play from between the centre backs. They are the preferred CM's and be it 4-2-3-1 or 4-3-3 (I hope for the latter), those are the 3 that will play the majority of the games.

[Lotus]

Don't think he's physically capable. He's fairly quick but it takes a lot for him to cover ground, if only lateral.

 

The only way he could be successful is if he has 2 other central midfielders near him. And it looks like McClaren likes his 4-4-1-1 with two water carriers. "Controlling the play" I think is the aim with those lads and protecting the defence.

 

Not sure what the statement 'He's fairly quick but it takes a lot for him to cover ground' means tbh. He's quick enough to do it and he's not blowing out of his arse after 30 minutes so i don't really get what you said there.

 

A fast runner can cover ground well up and down. Straight sprints to be precise. Anita is good at that. However, footballers often move laterally. Or just plain jog. For whatever reason, Anita isn't very good at this. You rarely feel like Anita is dominating an area of the pitch. So when a team is passing the ball around midfield, it takes a lot for him to keep up with play. He's fine when he's sprinting. But just moving around, he doesn't cover the ground well. I think Wilshere suffers from a similar thing. He's no slouch but it takes a fair bit for him to get around a pitch. Someone like Ramsey is no quicker but is able to cover ground easier.

 

Apparently, I sound pretentious. But i'm talking about a technicality here. Just because you can run fast, doesn't mean you get around the pitch well to force your presence. Makelele was short, not lightening but somehow managed to fulfill the action.

 

What exactly does "make us tick" mean?

 

I would love to know this. I would also like 1 example of when Anita's passing has "made us tick". I get s*** for saying "gegenpress" which has explicit actions. "Make us tick" is a lazy cliche that doesn't mean anything. Especially when used for Anita.

 

I think i understand your point.

I do think he did as you described at Man U actually. I think his positioning made them choose passes to areas he wasn't in at times. They hardly moved the ball quickly though so i'd say it wasn't typical.

 

[The College Dropout]

I agree he did it well at Man Utd (covering the ground/space that is, not making us tick) but they played a very Dutch style which he is used too. Slow build-up he can see where the space is developing and nip it in the bud. But generally, I don't think he's done it well with us. Simple runs from midfield he'll not pick it up.

 

I've never seen ANita make us tick with the ball.

 

It looks like SMC wants he and Colback in there to fulfil similar functions. Mostly around ball retention and defensive solidarity. With Colback more licence and ability to get forward... but only marginally so. Would like one of them benched. Pref Colback.

Prefer colback to be benched or to play? my own preference is colback plays, Anita flatters to decieve for me...

 

Not sure. Wish we experimented in pre-season more with different systems. Think I slightly lean towards Anita if we bring Wijnaldum deeper.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

I've never seen ANita make us tick with the ball.

 

then you are fucking blind, or have some ludicrously narrow definition of "makes us tick" that you've got from your Football Hipster Tactics 101 course

[The College Dropout]

I haven't seen us as a team "tick" in yonks. Let alone Anita making us tick. When I think of making play tick from deep, I think forward passing or spreading play to initiate attacks and move the other team around. Not passing to the closest player.

 

 

[mrmojorisin75]

I haven't seen us as a team "tick" in yonks. Let alone Anita making us tick. When I think of making play tick from deep, I think forward passing or spreading play to initiate attacks and move the other team around. Not passing to the closest player.

Again, you've either not watched what he's doing enough or you don't understand it.

[The College Dropout]

Still waiting on these examples of making us tick.

 

Anita's not doing a whole lot man. It's a lot of short side ways passing. In fact, it's not even a lot. He's not even on the ball a lot.

[Twinport53]

Still waiting on these examples of making us tick.

 

Anita's not doing a whole lot man. It's a lot of short side ways passing. In fact, it's not even a lot. He's not even on the ball a lot.

 

That could be said for the entire team. Therefore using that as a stick to bash him with is pointless.

[mrmojorisin75]

Still waiting on these examples of making us tick.

 

Anita's not doing a whole lot man. It's a lot of short side ways passing. In fact, it's not even a lot. He's not even on the ball a lot.

What fucking examples? Watch the games.

 

When we have the ball and are moving it around he's at the centre of it all, that's all there is to it man.

 

The fact that of the games we've played in 3 of them we've been totally on the back foot has not helped him or us develop our style but it is there.

[Interpolic]

So fucking tedious this, now. Every thread.

[mrmojorisin75]

So fucking tedious this, now. Every thread.

Fucking forum wide virus.

[Nobody]

So fucking tedious this, now. Every thread.

Was just thinking that myself. Every thread in this section is getting polluted with his bullshit. Doesn't even matter if he's got a point or not any more, it's just so tedious.

[triggs]

So fucking tedious this, now. Every thread.

It does actually seem like every thread just descends into this these days I do actually agree with him here and on some other stuff but I don't understand why he has to respond to every single post he disagrees with

[mrmojorisin75]

So fucking tedious this, now. Every thread.

It does actually seem like every thread just descends into this these days I do actually agree with him here and on some other stuff but I don't understand why he has to respond to every single post he disagrees with

Pretty impressive to have nearly worn the entire forum down to a state of total despair while he ploughs on like it's nothing

[Interpolic]

I honestly can't be arsed to do anything but take the piss now. It's like talking to each other in different languages - the persistent "No actually you're incorrect, he's more of an orthodox semi shuttler than a deep lying firework manufacturer, due mainly to his disciplined gegenpressing" stuff has made this part of the forum barely worth bothering with now.