ohmelads Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Interesting points OML. I would say that a central defensive partnership should have a player that attacks the ball, and a partner that covers the space and reads the game. I quite liked Rozenhal on the basis that he is the latter, and thought he read situations, took responsibility and held his position well, etc etc. The fact that he is very happy and comfortable on the ball is a bonus tbh, but nice to be. We most definitely are better off at centre back than we were last season, on an individual basis, but are still leaking goals. But don't you think its part of the partnership that the cover player lets the attacking player go for the ball first where possible ? I agree Rozehnal is that type of defender but the problem with Rozehnal trying to provide cover is he is a bit of a ballwatcher and can be prone to wandering. If one goes and one stays then the priority for the latter must always be to track the runner. Roz's pace can get himself out of trouble sometimes, but what I've seen when Taylor, Faye and to a lesser extent Cacapa have played alongside him is they find themselves running around "putting out fires" everywhere. I've noticed that some people look for faults in Taylor, yet turn a blind eye to faults in others like Rozehnal. It's the way football fans are I guess, we've all got more time for some players than others, and shiny new players tend to get the benefit of the doubt and escape any criticism. Taylor seems to be taking a hammering today yet I think he did more for the team than Roz. Rozehnal's a decent defender and he'll do a good job for us but I'm not sure he was right for this game. It was always clear they would be launching high balls to our penalty area to Jones, they've been doing it in previous games and it's been identified as a weakness of ours (as Reading found out). It wasn't the sort of game for a 'cultured' defender who won't put himself about. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Oh well, over the moon we did not lose it but really they were miles better than us and thats a massive worry! Barton was dam lucky to stay on but I take my hat off to Alan Smith, he could have been sent of easy in the role he was asked to do but he did it well, his best performance for us so far. Owen looked more interested today but the service to him was wank, even alongside Viduka he cannot get anything if we do not supply Viduka with the right balls he needs to create stuff. We dropped off all the time and stood back and let them come at us, if has screamed "PUSH OUT" once more time at the telly my wife may have killed me. LOVE TO MILNER, thanks you my son!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Shit tatics from Allardyce? Who would of thought. You can't say that! Give him time etc etc. :giggle: glad you think its funny. Anyway, I bet Andy Gray's praise of Smith is pissing you right off I thought you didn't judge Smith when he played in midfield? Oh, I don't. I already know he's an asset to the club. Still think your previous remark is funny ? Why shouldn't I find it funny? More shocking tactics and players played out of position yet people are still trying to justify what he's doing. As for Smith, decent first half but done nothing in the second half except go on a run and tripping over his own feet. mackems.gif why shouldn't you find it funny ? How sad. Pathetic in fact. Good supporter aren't you As pretty much everyone on here except you agrees Smith had a good game, it tells its own story. You wanted Allardyce BTW, didn't you ? Oh, NE5 trying to make out someone isn't a good supporter because they were laughing at people trying to justify Allardyce's bizarre tactics, talk about clutching straws. mackems.gif As for Smith, I've said he had a decent first half, so did Scott Parker in that position when we were over ran but that didn't mean he was a good enough either, I'll bookmark this though for when you say you don't judge him on what he does in midfield though. As for me wanting Allardyce, I would have took him back when Souness left and I wasn't against him when Roeder went although I wanted Sven or Houllier, are you saying I can't criticise him now because of that? Going by that logic you can't criticise Mike Ashley as you were happy that he took over and couldn't wait to sell your shares to him, even at a 33% loss. You're a sad lad. One thing I have NEVER done, Matthew, is laugh at this club, even when it was really in the doldrums and run by shite directors, far worse than being in the top half of the top league. Can't imagine why someone laughs at the club who says they support the club. Never mind admitting it, especially against the mackems. Thats one hell of an admission. I don't mind losing money on my shares, I can bear the small loss, I quite liked owning them, there was never anything to stop you buying some in the club you say you supported ? Care to tell us why, just think of the profit you would have made ? That's right NE5, I must be a real shit supporter because I posted a :giggle: at people defending Allardyce by saying give him time when it was 0-0. As for buying shares, why would I want to? To make a big loss on them like you did when you sold yours? That doesn't seem like a good investment opportunity to me. You couldn't wait to sell yours though, even at a big loss so don't complain if he doesn't back the manager. Talk about dodging the issue I don't think anybody who bought shares when they were issued expected to make money, I didn't, do it doesn't matter to me. I bought them because I wanted to own shares in the club that I support. As I said, I can bear a loss on them, its of little consequence. You also failed to read where I said, you could have bought them when the price was low and would have made a profit. Tut tut. I suddenly get a feeling you aren't much of a supporter of the club, if you see it as in investment, it certainly points that way, it isn't something that ever crossed my own mind. Nor has spending money on the club in any shape or form, ever. Whatever. I hope you read this, this time. But if you don't understand, it says quite a lot. How many shares did you buy when they were going cheap? Also trying to make out someone isn't much of a supporter because they didn't buy shares is again clutching at straws, you thought I was enough of a supporter when you pm'd me asking me to be a moderator on your forum. mackems.gif I already had some. Why would I buy more ? Like I said, I'm not rich enough to have bought out the Halls so I was happy with what I had. I can categorically say that if I hadn't had any, I would have bought some at any time, although I can't prove that. The notion that you saw them as an investment, rather than owning a part of the club, is revealing. I really couldn't care less, but backed up with the fact that you think its funny I lost money when I couldn't care less, and you think its funny that the club is struggling with selections and performance against the mackems of all people, also tells me something. You are right, by the way, me and wacky thought you were a good supporter of the club and would be a good poster on the board, and a good mod when we hoped and it looked like some good posters were going to come on board. Shame you can't take it when someone disagrees with you and fly into a strop. Never mind. Perhaps if you had bought more then you wouldn't have made such a huge loss when you sold them to Mike Ashley. As for me seeing them as an investment, that's because that's what they would have been, how would the club have benefited if I had bought them when they were going cheap? Someone actually bought me one of those frame share certificates containing one share for Christmas a few years back so perhaps I'm a supafan after all. BTw I don't think it's funny you lost money as you losing money was because the club has gone backwards since it was floated. only manure are an investment when it came to buying shares. Or were, anyway. They are now in debt due to the Glaziers buying them, so that makes them shite doesn't it As i have said, the bigger picture is the one that includes where we were in 1991. But if you refuse to see it, thats your problem, it will reflect itself in your bad judgement of how the club did overall under the Halls and Shepherd. Maybe qualifying for europe more than every other team bar 4 for a period of a decade isn't as good as knocking on the door of the title, but its not too bad , and I would blame the major shareholders for the decision to float a company, unless you think differently. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
biggs Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Smith invisible for almost the entire match, but when he had his game on he was quite impressive! :rant:he was shit norwegian boy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ohmelads Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Is there any evidence that Milner is better on the right than the left? I don't think there's much to choose. Yes, he's right footed, but he creates just as much cutting in from the wing as going down the outside. And please note - our goal actually came from him cutting in from the left and hitting it with his right. Zoggy is a tricky one. He looks better going forward from full back, and he often gets marked out of the game when he's further forward. On the other hand, he's very indecisive in defence, and often looks like he's leaving things to other people that he ought to deal with himself. I don't think Sam has made his mind up, but long term I think he's better off developing as a full back. The problem playing Milner on the left wing is we don't have another right winger. So not only do you rob the midfield of its quickest and most creative player, but you also force a central midfielder to have to shift to the right wing, who will inevitably drift inside which in turn puts pressure on the right back, who happens to be a centre back playing out of position. All this is done to accommodate a left winger at left back, while the real left back (and most expensive defender at the club) sits on the bench, alongside the only fit right back. Work that one out. Just to rob the team of a bit more pace, the quickest player in the squad is left on the bench to sit alongside the club captain for the biggest derby of the season. Shambles? Regarding Zoggy, he's not up to it defensively to play left back IMO. Against Villa, Boro etc earlier in the season he was getting us into all sorts of trouble. There was a time I thought he might do it but I've been forced to reevaluate, he just can't defend. People expect him to create something from left wing every week but that's because him and Milner are the only fit wingers in the squad and Milner has been off the boil for a while. With no creativity elsewhere in midfield people pin all their hopes on N'Zogbia. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 only manure are an investment when it came to buying shares. Or were, anyway. They are now in debt due to the Glaziers buying them, so that makes them s**** doesn't it As i have said, the bigger picture is the one that includes where we were in 1991. But if you refuse to see it, thats your problem, it will reflect itself in your bad judgement of how the club did overall under the Halls and Shepherd. Maybe qualifying for europe more than every other team bar 4 for a period of a decade isn't as good as knocking on the door of the title, but its not too bad , and I would blame the major shareholders for the decision to float a company, unless you think differently. Finally, over 500 posts to get that off your chest, you can go out for a pint now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest shire100 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Some of the whinging on this thread is pathetic, we got a result today, yes we should have had a more attacking formation but remeber this is a transitional season. We have made some fine signings in the the window now it is a case of finding a balance and that takes time, derby games dont give you time. Harper did well today, kicking was poor twice, okay could have stood up more for the goal but so could have seaman against giggs in the FA cup semi and he played for england for years. I was happy with him today. Taylor will not make it at this level he is erratic and gives away to many fouls, dont give me the effort shit,i would run my heart out for the club but iam also not good enough. Rozenhal did well in my opinion and in Faye has a good beast to his composure, some poor clearences but first derby game should be a starter. Faye is a natural ball winner had a handfull in Jones today who had a very good game. Faye did exceptionally well and could be a vital player for us this season. Milner was very poor first half, i like young jimmy but think he needs a rest, a lack of pace is evident and if you cant get past Ian Harte you are slower than a week in jail. Emre needs the ball more in dangerous positions, indifferent today, wasnt given a chance to hurt them Smith was great today. Barton showed what he can do when he is fit but has much to do Owen showed no threat but great touches and seldom give the ball away, would rather seen Oba start Viduka has fantastic feet but had no movement around him and was always surrounded by about 3 players. We miss Dyer or we need to play CNZ on the wing as he is the only player that terrifies defenders with pace, i would have put him against Harte and sat back and laughed. All on all we lack pace in the side and that is why we struggle against sides we are not getting behind them. i will take 1-1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 shite match again just to let people know i got home safely i got into the toon end at half time so i was ok, just jumped on 1 of the buses to come back Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
midds Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 shite match again just to let people know i got home safely i got into the toon end at half time so i was ok, just jumped on 1 of the buses to come back Must admit, I had my doubts about you getting out in one piece. Glad you made it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 only manure are an investment when it came to buying shares. Or were, anyway. They are now in debt due to the Glaziers buying them, so that makes them s**** doesn't it As i have said, the bigger picture is the one that includes where we were in 1991. But if you refuse to see it, thats your problem, it will reflect itself in your bad judgement of how the club did overall under the Halls and Shepherd. Maybe qualifying for europe more than every other team bar 4 for a period of a decade isn't as good as knocking on the door of the title, but its not too bad , and I would blame the major shareholders for the decision to float a company, unless you think differently. Finally, over 500 posts to get that off your chest, you can go out for a pint now. Happy Groundhog day, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 shite match again just to let people know i got home safely i got into the toon end at half time so i was ok, just jumped on 1 of the buses to come back Didn't you knock anyone out, Kev? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isegrim Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I think this is the part where Big Sam has still to come to grips with his job. Working at a 'big' club does mean different approaches to games. Playing for draws against arguably inferior teams is not an option. Yeah, there might be something in that. I'm not calling for his head. I think it's going to take time to sort things out. In a few months time, or a year or whenever I might feel differently, but for now, I think he has to be given a chance. I am generally still feeling positive (and I wasn't exactly overjoyed when Allardyce was appointed). There's a long way to go and there will be hiccups along the way, but I think what is needed right now is a bit of time and patience. This isn't a Souness or Roeder situation. I think if he can get to grips with managing a 'bigger club' then we can move away from the 'Bolton mentality', but it's going to take time. Allardyce to me looks capable to realize the demands the jobs brings with it. I am not that happy about some of his decisions or the style of play. But I think some of the criticism is far too harsh and far too many are rather seeing him as the Bolton manager than the Newcastle manager. An example is the long ball stuff. He said himself that when you play with the likes of Owen and Martins you have to play to their feet and to their strengths, so some of the dreadful long ball stuff we played in recent games for me (taking him by his words) is more to do with his inability to get his words to the players than him to really installing a certain way of (non-) style. I don't consider this season to be a necessary write-off, but I will judge Allardyce by the progress of the club (which doesn't have correlate to the league finish). So far I like what he does off the pitch but am sceptical about what is happening on the field. He is messing around a bit too much for my liking but I don't think what he is doing is as bad as some people make out. Even today I (think I) can actually understand some of his rather strange decisions and trying to field players who he thought would be best up for the demands of a passionate derby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The College Dropout Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 For a lanky one, Roze is shite in the air. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 only manure are an investment when it came to buying shares. Or were, anyway. They are now in debt due to the Glaziers buying them, so that makes them s**** doesn't it As i have said, the bigger picture is the one that includes where we were in 1991. But if you refuse to see it, thats your problem, it will reflect itself in your bad judgement of how the club did overall under the Halls and Shepherd. Maybe qualifying for europe more than every other team bar 4 for a period of a decade isn't as good as knocking on the door of the title, but its not too bad , and I would blame the major shareholders for the decision to float a company, unless you think differently. Finally, over 500 posts to get that off your chest, you can go out for a pint now. Later. Shame you still can't acknowledge the truth of what I say though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
NE5 Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 only manure are an investment when it came to buying shares. Or were, anyway. They are now in debt due to the Glaziers buying them, so that makes them s**** doesn't it As i have said, the bigger picture is the one that includes where we were in 1991. But if you refuse to see it, thats your problem, it will reflect itself in your bad judgement of how the club did overall under the Halls and Shepherd. Maybe qualifying for europe more than every other team bar 4 for a period of a decade isn't as good as knocking on the door of the title, but its not too bad , and I would blame the major shareholders for the decision to float a company, unless you think differently. Finally, over 500 posts to get that off your chest, you can go out for a pint now. Happy Groundhog day, Mick. Shame you don't answer what was directed at you. Must be because its too close to the truth for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benwell Lad Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Thought our performance was OK - not very ambitious but OK. Lets face it the whole situation today was going to make it extremely difficult for the away team to play football, their team more wound up than ever, their rabid fans more rabid than ever, and match officials who were weak and allowed themselves to be affected by the home crowd. They looked and played like a Championship team up for a big cup tie against a Premiership team. Owen could have been one on one twice but for a couple of dodgy decisions. In fact they had it all going for them this time and they still couldn't beat us. And as for that Scottish goalkeeper.........£9M are they serious ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 only manure are an investment when it came to buying shares. Or were, anyway. They are now in debt due to the Glaziers buying them, so that makes them s**** doesn't it As i have said, the bigger picture is the one that includes where we were in 1991. But if you refuse to see it, thats your problem, it will reflect itself in your bad judgement of how the club did overall under the Halls and Shepherd. Maybe qualifying for europe more than every other team bar 4 for a period of a decade isn't as good as knocking on the door of the title, but its not too bad , and I would blame the major shareholders for the decision to float a company, unless you think differently. Finally, over 500 posts to get that off your chest, you can go out for a pint now. Happy Groundhog day, Mick. Shame you don't answer what was directed at you. Must be because its too close to the truth for you. That's because it has nothing to do with what we were on about and just you looking for an excuse to talk about the same old subject you have for years, nobody on the board wants to read it over and over again. My comment was that I wasn't happy you lost money on your shares because it was a sign that the club had gone backwards since the float which resulted in it's value going down, like it or not it's a fact. I just think it's a shame you're not a schizophrenic NE5 as you would have the time of your life arguing with yourself all day, every day about the same subject. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest optimistic nit Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 these threads should really come with a warning. "Post match discussion from page 15, Baggio vs NE5 from page 22) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 these threads should really come with a warning. "Post match discussion from page 15, Baggio vs NE5 from page 22) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarrenBartonCentrePartin Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 can't argue with getting a point, because for the first half, and up until the goal, we looked like we couldn't be arsed. Just funny to see the little fuckers run themselves into the ground, dictate the majority of the game and only come away with a draw. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummie Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I didn't see the match today, so can't comment on the performance, but I thought most people on here were saying that if they were offered a draw beforehand, they'd take it. Looked at that way, it is a point, and one of the more difficult points you're going to get this season. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cajun Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I didn't see the match today, so can't comment on the performance, but I thought most people on here were saying that if they were offered a draw beforehand, they'd take it. Looked at that way, it is a point, and one of the more difficult points you're going to get this season. Exactly, some seem to completely miss the whole derby thing and see it as a "team we are above, promoted from the championship so we should go to their game and get 3 points without question!" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liam Liam Liam O Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 Faye was good, dodgy ball back to Rozehnal which led to the corner and goal though. I know. That's what I was going to say - he had a great game until I realised that so replaced it with "first half" Commentators really laid into Rozehnal about that which I thought was a little harsh, only seen it the once but the ball from Faye really didn't give him many choices. Yeah, blaming Roz??!! No mention of the terrible ball back from Faye, then little mention of Harper practically lying on the floor by the time that mackem twat met the header from the resulting corner Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JamesD Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 I didn't see the match today, so can't comment on the performance, but I thought most people on here were saying that if they were offered a draw beforehand, they'd take it. Looked at that way, it is a point, and one of the more difficult points you're going to get this season. I can usually accept results such as this, but the way we set out to play the match was pathetic. Thats the problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev Posted November 10, 2007 Share Posted November 10, 2007 this was not a 'must win match', it was a 'must not lose' match and we didnt, overall the match was shite and we didnt play well, but 1 point is better than none especially away to sunderland their fans will be the sad ones, we should be the rather happy ones 27 YEARS ... OR IS IT 28 NOW? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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