Liverpool (h) pre match thread

[Wullie]

Taylor's the worst centre-half at the club. He's had about 80 first team starts now too and the errors show no sign of sign of abating. He also lacks a bit of pace and doesn't have the nouse to make up for it. He's big and strong and honest but that's not enough for me.

 

Bang on the nail.

[Guest alex]

I'll tell you what. I take it back. I don't think this thread will benefit much from going into it. I'll save it for general chat.

[ohmelads]

 

Taylor's been awful this season whoever he's partnered in the middle.

 

Brushed off the ball by Ashley Young which nearly cost us the game against Villa, dreadful positioning against Boro for Mido's goal, wasn't even in the game against Man City, that's without mentioning his misplaced header from a throw in that started Pompey's attack for their 3rd or him missing the ball completely when clearing for their 4th.

 

He's been terrible.

 

Could say that about any of them though. It was Rozehnal, not Taylor, who was muscled off the ball at Villa. And you have Roz's no-show against the mackems, his performance against Man City was dreadful as well. And Cacapa had his moments before the Portsmouth nightmare, including more than one air kick in the penalty area and a dodgy backpass. Cacapa and Rozehnal were all over the place at Derby. Even Faye, who's been the pick of a poor bunch, directly set up one of Portsmouth's goals with a ridiculous pass and his error led to sunderland's quick corner which put us a goal down. If Taylor had done these things he'd get slaughtered, but people have glossed over the new players' shortcomings.

 

I think you're being hypercritical of one player. They've all struggled, because there's a different team out every week and the pressure on the defence has been huge. IMO only Faye and Enrique have come out of it so far with their credibility intact, the others have looked decidedly rusty, Taylor included.

 

I'm not Taylor's biggest fan but I do think he has good potential. He gets hammered on here, people seem disappointed that he's not the next Nesta, Puyol, Terry etc, and point to where Ferdinand and Woodgate were at his age. It's ridiculous. He won't be world class like them, people should just get over it. I think he'll become a good solid Premiership defender like Lescott at Everton for example, who is not world class by any means but good at what he does.

[johnnypd]

good post ohm, and i fully agree.

[Slugsy]

 

Taylor's been awful this season whoever he's partnered in the middle.

 

Brushed off the ball by Ashley Young which nearly cost us the game against Villa, dreadful positioning against Boro for Mido's goal, wasn't even in the game against Man City, that's without mentioning his misplaced header from a throw in that started Pompey's attack for their 3rd or him missing the ball completely when clearing for their 4th.

 

He's been terrible.

 

Could say that about any of them though. It was Rozehnal, not Taylor, who was muscled off the ball at Villa. And you have Roz's no-show against the mackems, his performance against Man City was dreadful as well. And Cacapa had his moments before the Portsmouth nightmare, including more than one air kick in the penalty area and a dodgy backpass. Cacapa and Rozehnal were all over the place at Derby. Even Faye, who's been the pick of a poor bunch, directly set up one of Portsmouth's goals with a ridiculous pass and his error led to sunderland's quick corner which put us a goal down. If Taylor had done these things he'd get slaughtered, but people have glossed over the new players' shortcomings.

 

I think you're being hypercritical of one player. They've all struggled, because there's a different team out every week and the pressure on the defence has been huge. IMO only Faye and Enrique have come out of it so far with their credibility intact, the others have looked decidedly rusty, Taylor included.

 

I'm not Taylor's biggest fan but I do think he has good potential. He gets hammered on here, people seem disappointed that he's not the next Nesta, Puyol, Terry etc, and point to where Ferdinand and Woodgate were at his age. It's ridiculous. He won't be world class like them, people should just get over it. I think he'll become a good solid Premiership defender like Lescott at Everton for example, who is not world class by any means but good at what he does.

 

What an excellent post and good to hear a more balanced view on Roz and Cacapa - one which I agree with completely.

[Baggio]

 

Taylor's been awful this season whoever he's partnered in the middle.

 

Brushed off the ball by Ashley Young which nearly cost us the game against Villa, dreadful positioning against Boro for Mido's goal, wasn't even in the game against Man City, that's without mentioning his misplaced header from a throw in that started Pompey's attack for their 3rd or him missing the ball completely when clearing for their 4th.

 

He's been terrible.

 

Could say that about any of them though. It was Rozehnal, not Taylor, who was muscled off the ball at Villa. And you have Roz's no-show against the mackems, his performance against Man City was dreadful as well. And Cacapa had his moments before the Portsmouth nightmare, including more than one air kick in the penalty area and a dodgy backpass. Cacapa and Rozehnal were all over the place at Derby. Even Faye, who's been the pick of a poor bunch, directly set up one of Portsmouth's goals with a ridiculous pass and his error led to sunderland's quick corner which put us a goal down. If Taylor had done these things he'd get slaughtered, but people have glossed over the new players' shortcomings.

 

I think you're being hypercritical of one player. They've all struggled, because there's a different team out every week and the pressure on the defence has been huge. IMO only Faye and Enrique have come out of it so far with their credibility intact, the others have looked decidedly rusty, Taylor included.

 

I'm not Taylor's biggest fan but I do think he has good potential. He gets hammered on here, people seem disappointed that he's not the next Nesta, Puyol, Terry etc, and point to where Ferdinand and Woodgate were at his age. It's ridiculous. He won't be world class like them, people should just get over it. I think he'll become a good solid Premiership defender like Lescott at Everton for example, who is not world class by any means but good at what he does.

 

 

It was Taylor who got muscled off the ball against Villa, he tried to be clever and bring it under control around the half way line, Young took the ball off him and ran through but messed up his chance.

 

I haven't said any of the rest haven't struggled at time but Taylor has been by far the worst, the idiots on her who compare him to the likes of Ferdinand, Woodgate and Terry when they were 21 need to have a reality check, he won't even be as good as the likes of Lescott or Wes Brown either, the truth is he's an average player overrated by our fans because we haven't brought anyone else through decent in the past decade, the best thing we could do is sell him because he'll never be worth to us as a player what we could get for him, look what Villa paid for Davies and look what you can get abroad for that, in fact I think he'll be gone within the next 12 months.

 

As for pointing out Cacapa's back pass that was Given's fault for not coming to collect the ball, he stood on it ages waiting and when he did pass it back Given decided to come out and collect it, his reading of the game is first class though but if we are going to play a high line where he's going to get left in one on one situations then he's going to struggle because he doesn't have the legs for it.

 

We should be looking to play one of Faye/Taylor with one of Cacapa/Rozehnal as we need the height at the back, Faye is a far better player than Taylor though in every aspect of his game.

[Dave]

And to think some on here wanted to make him captain.^TM

[Mowen]

Absolutely agree with that last sentance Baggy.

[Baggio]

And to think some on here wanted to make him captain.^TM

 

Fucking hell, Dave. Don't get me started on that one.

[Dave]

And to think some on here wanted to make him captain.^TM

 

Fucking hell, Dave. Don't get me started on that one.

 

[johnnypd]

Taylor wouldn't have been a good choice for captain based on the small group of players left over from the roeder regime, tho i would've preferred solano. he would've been our only senior centre-half so at least guaranteed a start!

[Wullie]

I'm not willing to get on the back of Cacapa or Rozehnal on the back of a few errors in a new league (Cacapa doesn't even speak English), because what does that make us, no better than the stupid Man Utd "fans" who would have sold Evra and Vidic at half time during their first appearance. Mind, there's some nuggets on here who are even after Beye and, to a lesser extent, Enrique.

 

Taylor's been playing regular Premiership football for three seasons though and is not getting any better.

 

The manager's not helping any of them mind, chopping and changing all the time and inviting pressure before they've gelled is just stupid.

[Parky]

I'm not willing to get on the back of Cacapa or Rozehnal on the back of a few errors in a new league (Cacapa doesn't even speak English), because what does that make us, no better than the stupid Man Utd "fans" who would have sold Evra and Vidic at half time during their first appearance. Mind, there's some nuggets on here who are even after Beye and, to a lesser extent, Enrique.

 

Taylor's been playing regular Premiership football for three seasons though and is not getting any better.

 

The manager's not helping any of them mind, chopping and changing all the time and inviting pressure before they've gelled is just stupid.

 

Really can't fathom the constant changes.....Doesn't breed any kind of understanding surely.

[Baggio]

I'm not willing to get on the back of Cacapa or Rozehnal on the back of a few errors in a new league (Cacapa doesn't even speak English), because what does that make us, no better than the stupid Man Utd "fans" who would have sold Evra and Vidic at half time during their first appearance. Mind, there's some nuggets on here who are even after Beye and, to a lesser extent, Enrique.

 

Taylor's been playing regular Premiership football for three seasons though and is not getting any better.

 

The manager's not helping any of them mind, chopping and changing all the time and inviting pressure before they've gelled is just stupid.

 

Really can't fathom the constant changes.....Doesn't breed any kind of understanding surely.

 

I think Ben Haim will be here in January and him and faye will be our first choice pairing from then, with either only being left out because of injuries.

[Jamie]

This thread should be changed to a " how shit have our defenders this season been ? "

[Dave]

I'm not willing to get on the back of Cacapa or Rozehnal on the back of a few errors in a new league (Cacapa doesn't even speak English), because what does that make us, no better than the stupid Man Utd "fans" who would have sold Evra and Vidic at half time during their first appearance. Mind, there's some nuggets on here who are even after Beye and, to a lesser extent, Enrique.

 

Taylor's been playing regular Premiership football for three seasons though and is not getting any better.

 

The manager's not helping any of them mind, chopping and changing all the time and inviting pressure before they've gelled is just stupid.

 

Really can't fathom the constant changes.....Doesn't breed any kind of understanding surely.

 

I think Ben Haim will be here in January and him and faye will be our first choice pairing from then, with either only being left out because of injuries.

 

Faye will be gone between mid-January and mid-February, so we'd better find someone who can play with Ben Haim.

[ohmelads]

 

It was Taylor who got muscled off the ball against Villa, he tried to be clever and bring it under control around the half way line, Young took the ball off him and ran through but messed up his chance.

 

I haven't said any of the rest haven't struggled at time but Taylor has been by far the worst, the idiots on her who compare him to the likes of Ferdinand, Woodgate and Terry when they were 21 need to have a reality check, he won't even be as good as the likes of Lescott or Wes Brown either, the truth is he's an average player overrated by our fans because we haven't brought anyone else through decent in the past decade, the best thing we could do is sell him because he'll never be worth to us as a player what we could get for him, look what Villa paid for Davies and look what you can get abroad for that, in fact I think he'll be gone within the next 12 months.

 

As for pointing out Cacapa's back pass that was Given's fault for not coming to collect the ball, he stood on it ages waiting and when he did pass it back Given decided to come out and collect it, his reading of the game is first class though but if we are going to play a high line where he's going to get left in one on one situations then he's going to struggle because he doesn't have the legs for it.

 

We should be looking to play one of Faye/Taylor with one of Cacapa/Rozehnal as we need the height at the back, Faye is a far better player than Taylor though in every aspect of his game.

 

Don't remember the Taylor/Young thing tbh. I do remember Roz being muscled off by Young/Agbonlahor (forget which) in the same game, which kind of proves my point. They've all dropped clangers this season, you have to judge Taylor in context. You talk about holding a high line, but we were pinned into our own half against Reading and Cacapa struggled again. He's a decade older than Taylor and he's making the same mistakes, air-kicks, dwelling on the ball, muscled off by strikers, yet you'll forgive one and not the other. "By far the worst"? Come on, that's just sensationalism. I'm not overly impressed by any of them, but I think Faye is a decent defender and like most I'm happy enough with him. The jury is still out on Cacapa and Rozehnal, you can see they've got talent but you can see they have spent their careers playing abroad. Roz is a very continental defender who likes to get involved in play and can go wandering and it's no surprise that both Faye and Taylor found they had their work cut out when they played alongside him. Cacapa reads the game very well but it remains to be seen whether he can hack the end to end nature of the English game with high balls and big forwards every week. Make no mistake, other teams will target him.

 

I'm not on the back of the new boys, I just think Taylor should be judged in context. It looks to me like people are glossing over their errors to make Taylor stand out, to make it look like he's been "by far the worst". But that implies the others have been "much better" and I've seen little evidence of that. IMO Faye and Enrique have started well, the rest have all looked equally uncomfortable.

 

It's high time Sam sticks with his favoured 4 (he must have an idea by now) and give them a run of games together. I think most of us will agree that Beye, Faye and Enrique should be starting every week.

[Baggio]

 

It was Taylor who got muscled off the ball against Villa, he tried to be clever and bring it under control around the half way line, Young took the ball off him and ran through but messed up his chance.

 

I haven't said any of the rest haven't struggled at time but Taylor has been by far the worst, the idiots on her who compare him to the likes of Ferdinand, Woodgate and Terry when they were 21 need to have a reality check, he won't even be as good as the likes of Lescott or Wes Brown either, the truth is he's an average player overrated by our fans because we haven't brought anyone else through decent in the past decade, the best thing we could do is sell him because he'll never be worth to us as a player what we could get for him, look what Villa paid for Davies and look what you can get abroad for that, in fact I think he'll be gone within the next 12 months.

 

As for pointing out Cacapa's back pass that was Given's fault for not coming to collect the ball, he stood on it ages waiting and when he did pass it back Given decided to come out and collect it, his reading of the game is first class though but if we are going to play a high line where he's going to get left in one on one situations then he's going to struggle because he doesn't have the legs for it.

 

We should be looking to play one of Faye/Taylor with one of Cacapa/Rozehnal as we need the height at the back, Faye is a far better player than Taylor though in every aspect of his game.

 

Don't remember the Taylor/Young thing tbh. I do remember Roz being muscled off by Young/Agbonlahor (forget which) in the same game, which kind of proves my point. They've all dropped clangers this season, you have to judge Taylor in context. You talk about holding a high line, but we were pinned into our own half against Reading and Cacapa struggled again. He's a decade older than Taylor and he's making the same mistakes, air-kicks, dwelling on the ball, muscled off by strikers, yet you'll forgive one and not the other. "By far the worst"? Come on, that's just sensationalism. I'm not overly impressed by any of them, but I think Faye is a decent defender and like most I'm happy enough with him. The jury is still out on Cacapa and Rozehnal, you can see they've got talent but you can see they have spent their careers playing abroad. Roz is a very continental defender who likes to get involved in play and can go wandering and it's no surprise that both Faye and Taylor found they had their work cut out when they played alongside him. Cacapa reads the game very well but it remains to be seen whether he can hack the end to end nature of the English game with high balls and big forwards every week. Make no mistake, other teams will target him.

 

I'm not on the back of the new boys, I just think Taylor should be judged in context. It looks to me like people are glossing over their errors to make Taylor stand out, to make it look like he's been "by far the worst". But that implies the others have been "much better" and I've seen little evidence of that. IMO Faye and Enrique have started well, the rest have all looked equally uncomfortable.

 

It's high time Sam sticks with his favoured 4 (he must have an idea by now) and give them a run of games together. I think most of us will agree that Beye, Faye and Enrique should be starting every week.

 

Taylor has been easily the worst of our centre backs this season, if you want to think that's sensationalism then fine but I prefer to judge on what I see and I wouldn't trust Taylor at the back against any half decent striker, Cacapa is clearly a stop gap signing and has only been brought in because the players Allardyce wanted wouldn't come here for one reason or another, Rozenhal on the other hand looks a better defender who will take time to get used to the pace and physical side of the Premiership, this isn't glossing over his mistakes it's understanding that few players come here and adapt straight away.

 

As Wullie said Taylor has been a regular in the Premiership for a few years now and hasn't improved at all, do people really have any hope of him being a regular at the back for us? As a defender he's on par with Michael Dawson at Spurs and most of the board slaughter him every chance they get.

 

 

[johnnypd]

in all honesty i thought taylor was carrying rozehnal for a few games earlier in the season, he was being left very overexposed and having to be both the aggressive player who can win headers and sweep up when rozehnal went on forays upfield.

[Baggio]

in all honesty i thought taylor was carrying rozehnal for a few games earlier in the season, he was being left very overexposed and having to be both the aggressive player who can win headers and sweep up when rozehnal went on forays upfield.

 

Rozehnal going forward was down to Geremi, Smith and Butt not being up to the job of carrying the ball forward from midfield, that's for a different discussion though.

[Guest jimmy1982]

Don't know if anyone's seen this, apologies if you have:

 

<Snip>

 

Its' highlights of Roz at PSG. The lad's video introduces him as an 'Offensive Defender' and says he always knew what it meant to wear the PSG shirt, unlike some of the other players.

I particularly like the bit where he strides through the midfield, playing a couple of one-twos to get himsefl into the box before getting hacked down for a penna. Shades of Albert anyone?

Admitedly this was only in the French league and its only a couple of clips, so they could be flukes, but the comments on the video are very positive. It can't be easy for a defender like him coming to the Premier League, its so much more fast and physical than what he's been used to. I think he's got alot of class on the ball and I hope he gets the chance to show it for us.

[Dokko]

1st time i've looked into this thread, can't see this being a good day for us at all.

[Parky]

1st time i've looked into this thread, can't see this being a good day for us at all.

 

Benitez will make 9 changes and leave Torres on the bench....

[Guest Tiger Tony]

1st time i've looked into this thread, can't see this being a good day for us at all.

 

Benitez will make 9 changes and leave Torres on the bench....

I have just seen today's Liverpool Echo which says Torres is lined up to start Saturday. But no one ever knows with Rafa. Mascherano is a certain no no due to his travel schedule for internationals.

[Parky]

1st time i've looked into this thread, can't see this being a good day for us at all.

 

Benitez will make 9 changes and leave Torres on the bench....

I have just seen today's Liverpool Echo which says Torres is lined up to start Saturday. But no one ever knows with Rafa. Mascherano is a certain no no due to his travel schedule for internationals.

 

 

Even a draw for us is fantasyland stuff atm.