Nail your colours to the mast: Sack or No Sack?

[Guest Phil K]

Seems to be only slightly in favour of Big Sam.

It does seem to be his fault, the style of play - which is causing the problems.

It may have worked at Bolton, clearly it isnt here though.

I like the guts that Megson has introduced at Bolton as regards yesterday - its what is missing at NUFC possibly more than anything.

as many others have said before me, I'd rather have 30,000 in the ground who have come to get behind the side than the current 50,000 where many seem to delight in ridiculing our staff and side.

 

and if we weren't getting 50,000 a week then maybe we could finally rid ourselves of the delusion that we are a "big" side and align our expections accordingly, therefore allowing us to rebuild the team in a positive environment rather than under the cloud of over-expectation and negativity that has followed us around for the last 10 years.....

 

Here we go...the usual pillocks doing the BBC and medias job for them in slagging the fans off for the crap coming those paid obscene amounts.

It really irritates me. The tossers at the BBC will be walking around with the kind of hard ons over these displays that they normally get when a new office boy starts....

 

[Dr Venkman]

 

couldnt agree more, 50,000 idiots, we dont deserve it

 

50,000 idiots who don't deserve what?  s*** football, you're right.

 

its fair enough mate, you've got your concerns about the way we're playing, so have i. i just dont think that the way that our 'supporters' react to bad times is condusive to success, at all, even when we win i leave the ground frustrated at all the negativity around. i'm starting to think that many years of false dawns have changed the fans mindset beyond repair

 

@bobbydazzla - spot on mate

[Dr Venkman]

Seems to be only slightly in favour of Big Sam.

It does seem to be his fault, the style of play - which is causing the problems.

It may have worked at Bolton, clearly it isnt here though.

I like the guts that Megson has introduced at Bolton as regards yesterday - its what is missing at NUFC possibly more than anything.

 

for gods sake, i had to have a word with a mate who said this yesterday 'gary megsons team beat man u today, thats how bad our management situation is', you people cant see the wood for the trees, thats a SAM ALLARDYCE team playing man u mate, his players, playing his system, whats the diference between them and us, TIME

[bobbydazzla]

 

couldnt agree more, 50,000 idiots, we dont deserve it

 

50,000 idiots who don't deserve what?  s*** football, you're right.

 

its fair enough mate, you've got your concerns about the way we're playing, so have i. i just dont think that the way that our 'supporters' react to bad times is condusive to success, at all, even when we win i leave the ground frustrated at all the negativity around. i'm starting to think that many years of false dawns have changed the fans mindset beyond repair

 

@bobbydazzla - spot on mate

 

maybe the amount of season ticket holders doesnt help things. people turn up out of habit and because they have to. not because they actually want to be there. so they are in the wrong frame of mind before the game has even kicked off.

 

a load of people jacking in their season tickets and being replaced by paper ticket buying punters who are at the match because they want to be there might be just what we need to lift the attitude of the crowd.

[Guest Phil K]

Seems to be only slightly in favour of Big Sam.

It does seem to be his fault, the style of play - which is causing the problems.

It may have worked at Bolton, clearly it isnt here though.

I like the guts that Megson has introduced at Bolton as regards yesterday - its what is missing at NUFC possibly more than anything.

 

for gods sake, i had to have a word with a mate who said this yesterday 'gary megsons team beat man u today, thats how bad our management situation is', you people cant see the wood for the trees, thats a SAM ALLARDYCE team playing man u mate, his players, playing his system, whats the diference between them and us, TIME

 

What do you judge someone on ?

Their hair style ? Their car ?

Or results ?

Maybe it's Gary Megsons balding ginger hair makes you judge him negatively ?

No, I'm not advocating getting him as NUFC manager, by the way

 

@bobbydazzla - spot on mate

Spot-on ?

You THAT daft ?

The prat slags off our fans for daring to be unhappy at two atrocious home performances of monumental ineptitude and you think he's "spot on"

Just remind me not to enter you in archery competition...the spectators behind you would be in deadly danger.

[Howaythelads]

"even MOTD took the piss out of our lot booing Gerrard. he is an immense player, who had a s*** game for a national side that many newcastle fans couldn't give a s*** about. so our booing just fires him up to raise his game even higher. and guess who had the last laugh."

 

So booing opposition players 'fires them up', but booing our own players makes them wilt and make mistakes?

 

Says a lot about the type of player we have at SJP.

 

I can't recall an example of when the home fans booed a home player and his response was to up his game and suddenly deliver a blinding performance for the remainder of the match.

 

if you get booed by the home fans when you're away from home, then in many cases it will drive you to up your game. Especially if you possess the footballing talent of Mr S Gerrard.

 

and my issue with booing gerrard is the reason he was booed. He had a shitter for england, so f****** what ! it has nowt to do with a game in which NUFC are playing LFC.

 

these days the fans inside the ground are more arsed about where they can direct their negative abuse, rather than singing their hearts out and getting behind the side. it is like a f****** pantomime.

 

 

 

 

couldnt agree more, 50,000 idiots, we dont deserve it

 

as many others have said before me, I'd rather have 30,000 in the ground who have come to get behind the side than the current 50,000 where many seem to delight in ridiculing our staff and side.

 

and if we weren't getting 50,000 a week then maybe we could finally rid ourselves of the delusion that we are a "big" side and align our expections accordingly, therefore allowing us to rebuild the team in a positive environment rather than under the cloud of over-expectation and negativity that has followed us around for the last 10 years.....

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest Dev]

Seems to be only slightly in favour of Big Sam.

It does seem to be his fault, the style of play - which is causing the problems.

It may have worked at Bolton, clearly it isnt here though.

I like the guts that Megson has introduced at Bolton as regards yesterday - its what is missing at NUFC possibly more than anything.

 

for gods sake, i had to have a word with a mate who said this yesterday 'gary megsons team beat man u today, thats how bad our management situation is', you people cant see the wood for the trees, thats a SAM ALLARDYCE team playing man u mate, his players, playing his system, whats the diference between them and us, TIME

 

Mate if you want a team that is very happy to graft out the odd win against the odds, pick up a lot of points from draws and safely home in on 9th spot each year then Sam will definately bring us that given time. He is in fact well on the way. Trouble is most of us here want a manager that wants to go out and beat the filth 7-1, instead of trying to graft a precious point off them.

 

We don't want to transform into Bolton. We want Sam to take the best of what he had at Bolton, but to let go of all that small club grafting crap. He has a first team packed full of internationals, he needs to start using them as such. Forget Liverpool and Manure. We don't have the players or the finances to compete with them in the short team. What is the problem with Sam is he is happy as a lark to go and 'steal' a point off the filth where David Moyes with a similar squad goes and thrashes them 7-1. And David Moyes is no managerial Einstein mate. He just got his team to pass the ball a bit and put a bit of pressure on the shit backline they have. Which surprisingly worked better than letting them come at our backline and trying to absorb the pressure.

[Howaythelads]

 

couldnt agree more, 50,000 idiots, we dont deserve it

 

50,000 idiots who don't deserve what?  s*** football, you're right.

 

its fair enough mate, you've got your concerns about the way we're playing, so have i. i just dont think that the way that our 'supporters' react to bad times is condusive to success, at all, even when we win i leave the ground frustrated at all the negativity around. i'm starting to think that many years of false dawns have changed the fans mindset beyond repair

 

@bobbydazzla - spot on mate

 

maybe the amount of season ticket holders doesnt help things. people turn up out of habit and because they have to. not because they actually want to be there. so they are in the wrong frame of mind before the game has even kicked off.

 

a load of people jacking in their season tickets and being replaced by paper ticket buying punters who are at the match because they want to be there might be just what we need to lift the attitude of the crowd.

 

And another 

[bobbydazzla]

Seems to be only slightly in favour of Big Sam.

It does seem to be his fault, the style of play - which is causing the problems.

It may have worked at Bolton, clearly it isnt here though.

I like the guts that Megson has introduced at Bolton as regards yesterday - its what is missing at NUFC possibly more than anything.

as many others have said before me, I'd rather have 30,000 in the ground who have come to get behind the side than the current 50,000 where many seem to delight in ridiculing our staff and side.

 

and if we weren't getting 50,000 a week then maybe we could finally rid ourselves of the delusion that we are a "big" side and align our expections accordingly, therefore allowing us to rebuild the team in a positive environment rather than under the cloud of over-expectation and negativity that has followed us around for the last 10 years.....

 

Here we go...the usual pillocks doing the BBC and medias job for them in slagging the fans off for the crap coming those paid obscene amounts.

It really irritates me. The tossers at the BBC will be walking around with the kind of hard ons over these displays that they normally get when a new office boy starts....

 

 

I might be wide of the mark with this repsonse but thats mainly because you lost me with comment.

 

I'm not suggesting that we played well y'day. Far from it. I'm just saying that almost from the outset the attitude in the ground was one of negativity. And for many years now our fans, particularly the 50,000 at home games, have been living under a cloud of negativity or apathy. Hence the Bring Back The Noise campaigns etc...

[Guest Phil K]

Great...another one.

Lets go back to the good old days when 16.000 in the ground with Ozzy in charge, no-one booed etc etc

 

Look - you lot into self-flagellation - when there was 30,000 there was booing. When there was 16000 there was booing. I know - I was there.

It doesn't effing matter how many are in the effing ground - crap performances and inept tactics get booed.

The other clubs do it too. They just have less reason to do so, less often. Remember a couple of seasons ago when Man U fans after finishing second, left the ground virtually empty 20 minutes before the end of the last game, leaving the players a humiliating walk around an almost empty stadium - after finishing SECOND. That after the season previouis when we were pilloried by the rags and BBC for doing the same against Wolves (only nowhere near as bad) and the pillocks read what the rags and BBC said and repeated it on here then too.

It is NOT linked to how many is in the ground.

The sheer STUPIDITY of this concept defies belief.

[madras]

for a change it's not even the players being boo'ed,it's the managers decisions,the players know this.

[Dr Venkman]

Seems to be only slightly in favour of Big Sam.

It does seem to be his fault, the style of play - which is causing the problems.

It may have worked at Bolton, clearly it isnt here though.

I like the guts that Megson has introduced at Bolton as regards yesterday - its what is missing at NUFC possibly more than anything.

 

for gods sake, i had to have a word with a mate who said this yesterday 'gary megsons team beat man u today, thats how bad our management situation is', you people cant see the wood for the trees, thats a SAM ALLARDYCE team playing man u mate, his players, playing his system, whats the diference between them and us, TIME

 

Mate if you want a team that is very happy to graft out the odd win against the odds, pick up a lot of points from draws and safely home in on 9th spot each year then Sam will definately bring us that given time. He is in fact well on the way. Trouble is most of us here want a manager that wants to go out and beat the filth 7-1, instead of trying to graft a precious point off them.

 

We don't want to transform into Bolton. We want Sam to take the best of what he had at Bolton, but to let go of all that small club grafting crap. He has a first team packed full of internationals, he needs to start using them as such. Forget Liverpool and Manure. We don't have the players or the finances to compete with them in the short team. What is the problem with Sam is he is happy as a lark to go and 'steal' a point off the filth where David Moyes with a similar squad goes and thrashes them 7-1. And David Moyes is no managerial Einstein mate. He just got his team to pass the ball a bit and put a bit of pressure on the s*** backline they have. Which surprisingly worked better than letting them come at our backline and trying to absorb the pressure.

 

i agree with most of what you're saying, i'm starting to repeat myself here though and its getting boring for everyone, we know what sam did at bolton, we also know that in the long term thats not what we want, but from where we were before he took over, it'd be a start. at the end of the day its down to ashley and mort what happens with the manager, my point is that i'm sick to death of the fans attitude, the wholesale changes over the summer looked to be the turning point for us, a new start, fresh optimism, but the fact of the matter is that it doesnt take long for the booing to start again. it feels like our fans are more bothered about drama than they are about football, half way through the second half yesterday i look around and everyone's grinning at how bad its gotten

 

phil k - yeah mate, i'm daft, keep booing

[bobbydazzla]

Seems to be only slightly in favour of Big Sam.

It does seem to be his fault, the style of play - which is causing the problems.

It may have worked at Bolton, clearly it isnt here though.

I like the guts that Megson has introduced at Bolton as regards yesterday - its what is missing at NUFC possibly more than anything.

 

for gods sake, i had to have a word with a mate who said this yesterday 'gary megsons team beat man u today, thats how bad our management situation is', you people cant see the wood for the trees, thats a SAM ALLARDYCE team playing man u mate, his players, playing his system, whats the diference between them and us, TIME

 

What do you judge someone on ?

Their hair style ? Their car ?

Or results ?

Maybe it's Gary Megsons balding ginger hair makes you judge him negatively ?

No, I'm not advocating getting him as NUFC manager, by the way

 

@bobbydazzla - spot on mate

Spot-on ?

You THAT daft ?

The prat slags off our fans for daring to be unhappy at two atrocious home performances of monumental ineptitude and you think he's "spot on"

Just remind me not to enter you in archery competition...the spectators behind you would be in deadly danger.

 

I never slagged people off for daring to be unhappy. I was making the point that the home support are far too eager to turn on the management / players as soon as things start going wrong.

 

Maybe if the fans who don't believe in Sam stopped coming to the game for a bit then the team could have a chance to sort out their issues without having large sections of the 50,000 home fans hurling abuse at them.

 

If you do currently come to the game (which many who post on here clearly don't), but don't like the current state of affairs, then stop going into the ground and vent your spleen outside before or after the 90 mins has passed.

 

I'm sure that the cauldron of negativity being generated in the stands isn't ever going to help the players and Sam sort out the issues they currently have on the pitch

[Guest Phil K]

phil k - yeah mate, i'm daft, keep booing

Acceptance is the first step to cure.

And by the way - I DON'T boo.

[bobbydazzla]

"The other clubs do it too. They just have less reason to do so, less often."

 

And why is this ?

 

Because we have an unrealistic, overexpectant, impatient set of fans who have delusions that we are a big club and view the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool as our rivals when in fact these clubs have moved on to bigger and better things and we have wallowed in the self pity of our own mid table mediocrity.

 

apart from the 50,000 crowd what makes us any better than Villa, Boro, Pompey, Man City, Everton, Bolton, Blackburn etc ?

 

And a number of those sides are now starting to leave us behind as they build on a few years of stable management.

[Mick]

 

its fair enough mate, you've got your concerns about the way we're playing, so have i. i just dont think that the way that our 'supporters' react to bad times is condusive to success, at all, even when we win i leave the ground frustrated at all the negativity around. i'm starting to think that many years of false dawns have changed the fans mindset beyond repair

 

@bobbydazzla - spot on mate

 

I'm sure that 50,000 getting behind the team would give then a huge lift, I just don't think 50,000 performing seals would make the slightest difference when things are like they are now.  I think 50,000 performing seals would send out the wrong message to the people who can make a difference, negativity from the fans at times is needed.  Without it we would still have Souness or Roeder and that wouldn't have done us any good.

 

When things are going better then the fans will get behind the team, when we're cocking things up like we are now then I think we'd do our selves no favours if we appeared to be happy the way things are going.

 

Some people will always find a reason to moan when things are going OK but we’ve got to live with that because they’ll give the club a greater spending power when it comes to bringing in new players.

 

[Mick]

"The other clubs do it too. They just have less reason to do so, less often."

 

And why is this ?

 

Because we have an unrealistic, overexpectant, impatient set of fans who have delusions that we are a big club and view the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool as our rivals when in fact these clubs have moved on to bigger and better things and we have wallowed in the self pity of our own mid table mediocrity.

 

apart from the 50,000 crowd what makes us any better than Villa, Boro, Pompey, Man City, Everton, Bolton, Blackburn etc ?

 

And a number of those sides are now starting to leave us behind as they build on a few years of stable management.

 

The only 2 clubs you mention as having had stable management are Everton and to a lesser extent Blackburn, the other 5 have changed managers quite often recently and Blackburn would have got rid of Souness if we hadn't bailed them out.  Sacking the manager isn't the problem, employing the wrong one is.

 

Get the right manager in and you don't have to get rid of him.

[bobbydazzla]

 

its fair enough mate, you've got your concerns about the way we're playing, so have i. i just dont think that the way that our 'supporters' react to bad times is condusive to success, at all, even when we win i leave the ground frustrated at all the negativity around. i'm starting to think that many years of false dawns have changed the fans mindset beyond repair

 

@bobbydazzla - spot on mate

 

I'm sure that 50,000 getting behind the team would give then a huge lift, I just don't think 50,000 performing seals would make the slightest difference when things are like they are now.  I think 50,000 performing seals would send out the wrong message to the people who can make a difference, negativity from the fans at times is needed.  Without it we would still have Souness or Roeder and that wouldn't have done us any good.

 

When things are going better then the fans will get behind the team, when we're cocking things up like we are now then I think we'd do our selves no favours if we appeared to be happy the way things are going.

 

Some people will always find a reason to moan when things are going OK but we’ve got to live with that because they’ll give the club a greater spending power when it comes to bringing in new players.

 

 

I agree that people can't spend every game looking through rose tinted glasses and pretending everything is great.

 

But we are 13 games into a new regime that many agree needs time to gel and build, yet still the choruses of boo's come from the stands.

 

There were many who booed the 0-0 at home against Villa !

 

At what point does the attitude of the fans become a cause, rather than a symptom of the poor performances ?

[dustynrg]

I think the thing you have to ask yourselves, on the basis of the last few performances, who are we going to beat in the next few games? If we can't beat the likes of Sunderland, Reading and Derby we'll be relegation fodder by about February, and then he'll have to go.

 

What is puzzling to me this morning are the reports coming out in the papers that the "senior players" whoever they may be, are very unhappy with Sam's training etc, well looking at the team's attitude yesterday it's not just the senior players who are unhappy.

 

I just can't see Ashley putting up with shit performances like that, he might be one of the lads, wearing his shirt, buying the drinks, but he's not bought the club to watch abject shyte. If this continues, well SA will be out because it's not going to change any time soon.

[bobbydazzla]

"The other clubs do it too. They just have less reason to do so, less often."

 

And why is this ?

 

Because we have an unrealistic, overexpectant, impatient set of fans who have delusions that we are a big club and view the likes of Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool as our rivals when in fact these clubs have moved on to bigger and better things and we have wallowed in the self pity of our own mid table mediocrity.

 

apart from the 50,000 crowd what makes us any better than Villa, Boro, Pompey, Man City, Everton, Bolton, Blackburn etc ?

 

And a number of those sides are now starting to leave us behind as they build on a few years of stable management.

 

The only 2 clubs you mention as having had stable management are Everton and to a lesser extent Blackburn, the other 5 have changed managers quite often recently and Blackburn would have got rid of Souness if we hadn't bailed them out.  Sacking the manager isn't the problem, employing the wrong one is.

 

Get the right manager in and you don't have to get rid of him.

 

With our current track record of hiring and firing I'm taking the view stability is having a manager who has been given more than 1 season at the helm.

 

O'Neil didn't exactly set the world alight with Villa last year. But he's now shaping them into a decent looking side. Moyes's reign has also had it's ups and downs. At NUFC managers are never given enough time to build things. The fans don't allow it.

 

And if we sack Allardyce who in their right mind would want the job ???

 

 

[Mick]

 

I agree that people can't spend every game looking through rose tinted glasses and pretending everything is great.

 

But we are 13 games into a new regime that many agree needs time to gel and build, yet still the choruses of boo's come from the stands.

 

There were many who booed the 0-0 at home against Villa !

 

At what point does the attitude of the fans become a cause, rather than a symptom of the poor performances ?

 

It's actually 14 games in, we also lost to Arsenal reserves.  14 games is long enough to see that we have problems, problems which are to a large extent self inflicted and repeated on a regular basis.  I've seen enough games lost to get over a defeat or two, I hate it when I'm 90% sure that we'll lose before a game because of something which could be put right very easily.

 

This repetition is getting very boring but I have a feeling it will be repeated again during the next couple of games.  I hope I'm having this post bumped next week to prove me wrong but I doubt it.

 

[bobbydazzla]

 

if you want to be petty we also played some pre-season friendlies.....

 

if you look at the league, we've won 5, lost 5, drawn 3.

 

yes, the last few games have been worrying. but it's not that many weeks since we were harping on about our unbeaten home record and proclaiming that we looked like contenders for a top 6 finish.

 

we've not been amazing this season. and have been minging in a number of games. but it's a new squad, new manager, new regime. did you honestly think that this season would be plain sailing from day 1 ?

[Dr Venkman]

 

I agree that people can't spend every game looking through rose tinted glasses and pretending everything is great.

 

But we are 13 games into a new regime that many agree needs time to gel and build, yet still the choruses of boo's come from the stands.

 

There were many who booed the 0-0 at home against Villa !

 

At what point does the attitude of the fans become a cause, rather than a symptom of the poor performances ?

 

It's actually 14 games in, we also lost to Arsenal reserves.  14 games is long enough to see that we have problems, problems which are to a large extent self inflicted and repeated on a regular basis.  I've seen enough games lost to get over a defeat or two, I hate it when I'm 90% sure that we'll lose before a game because of something which could be put right very easily.

 

This repetition is getting very boring but I have a feeling it will be repeated again during the next couple of games.  I hope I'm having this post bumped next week to prove me wrong but I doubt it.

 

 

but the man has a proven track record of getting things right in this league if you give him time, for the club to be successful, at some point the fans have got to give someone a chance when things AREN'T going right, because no-one can get everything right all the time, the main difference between bolton and newcastle is expectation, (apart from history, which at this point counts for nothing) its the fans attitude that sets the two clubs apart, we need to accept that we're a mid table club at best, with a man in charge who has previously taken a relegation candidate club and taken them to a more than decent level

[brummie]

O'Neil didn't exactly set the world alight with Villa last year. But he's now shaping them into a decent looking side.

 

Indeed. We went 13 or 14 games without a win and were in relegation territory for a while (although he did start from a far weaker position than Allardyce has).

 

You've got to give him the chance, no matter how shit or clueless it looks now, you've effectively got no choice.

 

Sack him now and who do you appoint?

[Dave]

We've already been down the road of looking for a new manager at the same time as England, that left us in limbo for months and we ended up with Roeder. Give him until the end of the season unless we either look like getting relegated or someone better looks interested in the job.

 

This, basically.

 

I was disgusted with the line-up, tactics, subs, performance, the lot yesterday. It was fucking terrible.

 

But I wouldn't want us to sack him during the season unless someone clearly superior (like Mourinho, though I highly doubt it) has the pen on the contract ready to go.

 

If we look like we're going to go down, sack him. If we finish the season in an unacceptable position (IMO outside the top half AND not showing an encouraging basis for next year), replace him.