"Senior players revolt against Sam" story rubbished by Harper and Given

[Thorpinho]

We are not going to get into Europe and we are not going to get relegated, we are going to be midtable this year. Whilst I don't especially like the current management of the team, there isn't a catastrophic amount of harm in giving him until next season to turn it around. Martin O'Neill has shown at Villa that it is possible to go from low midtable to a top 8 side with a bit of time.

[TRon]

I can't help but admire Allardyce. Not for his football ethos, or his management so far this season because he's failed to get results short term through a blinkered approach. But having seen Roeder grovelling at the feet of senior players during his tenure, It's good to see Sam showing these under-achieving muppets who's boss. Given and whoever else was involved should be 'rested' against Arsenal. There's no one at this club who is irreplaceable.

[9]

5 Live's talking point later this morning - Are Newcastle an impossible club to manage?

 

At the minute it would seem so.

 

Only if the manager isn't good enough.

 

Yes, he's better than Roeder or Souness. Yes, we need to show consistency and stick with a manager. But only the RIGHT manager.

 

As fans, there seems to be soem fucking stupid idea that anyone who wears balck and white, or manages the club, deserves no criticism, and is automatically top class. THEY AREN'T. And at the moment, there is a lot of criticism being justified of a number of players who are mid table quality at best, and a manager who is patently out of his depth.

 

I heard last night on Sky Fat Sam saying "its judged over 38 games not 14"......this follows his made-up stat about the best 10 game start ever, or soemthing stupid......and you're wrong, Sam - the SEASON is judged over 38 games. But a team and a manger are judged on a rolling basis on performance. And yours has been shite.

 

I'd like to know if he will resign if/when we are still 10/11th at 38 games. He's spent £25m, played HIS tactics, etc. But of course he won't. I can't blame him, if i got paid loads of money to do a job i wasn't up to, i'd milk it as well. But that doesn't make him any less full of shit.

 

Whats his net spend though? and weren't the sales needed for the good of the dressing room?

 

I think we've got to got through the pain barrier to get better.

 

He might never play pretty football but he might make us a far more effective outfit next year if we stick with him.

 

I don't believe anybody will walk into the club and have us playing well within 15 games, winning games, entertaining the public and have the press lauding over him.

 

We've got to give him time for the long term good of the club and the good of it's short term reputation.

 

Fact is, i don't think he is up to it long term, full stop.

 

He's not a manager who needs time to bed into the Premiership, neither are some of his signings.

 

We NEED to get a really good manager in. Sticking with one who is not good enough will do NOTHING for our reputation, as we will be for even longer a mid table club.

 

And his net soend is irrelevant - he has bough players to the tune of £25m, and they haven't been good enough. Like him.

 

But, if we beet Brum, and maybe one other team over the next 5 games, we'll paper over the cracks, pretend he's good enough, and stick our heads in the sand whenever we look at the league table, making excuse after excuse for the sgite we produce.*

 

 

* That wasn't meant to sound like a line from a kids book, that last bit, but it reads that way, very rythmic.

 

I dont think anyone will argue that SA is not going to make us a top 4 team playing entertaining football, he will given a season or so make us say a 8th place team and leave us with a solid squad of players, an ideal base for a top manager to come in and build on it and move forward, SA has been handed a very poor squad bar 2-3 players.

 

But we sack him now and replace him with who? theres no obvious choices out there who are diffrent class to SA, a manager at a successful  club is not going to leave that club to join a club thats given a manager with a decent track recored 14 games to transform them from a 14th placed club to top 6 club. Did we not learn from sacking Sir Bobby? he would have given us a top 6 finish but no we sacked him expecting a cue of top class managers wanting the job, then ended up chasing the likes of Steve Bruce and Souness.

[Dokko]

I quite like the fact he's come out in the open and not tried to hide the fact there's players unhappy.

 

Having said that, if Souness had of I would have been slating him.

 

Maybe it's because I hope Allardyce has got more about him and can actually positively motivate the players as well as fall out with them.

 

One thing is for certain, the first team squad has needed a culture change for a long time and it needs somebody to stand up and let players know what is and isn't acceptable.

 

They're playing games with him now to see how far he can be pushed. I imagine they did the same with Roeder and he bottled it.

 

Its like 2/3 year olds pushing their parents to see what they can get away with.

 

Flog a few Sam, that'll show them. Even better, release them if nobody is interested. See ya Baba.

 

 

Get them all in a small room and then suddenly without warning shoot one in the head at point blank range (ideally Carr) so the blood spatter hits the others. Then discuss the christmas team schedule after.

 

Half way there. Then give them survival packs with a random weapon in each, only the last 11 survive and play over xmas. (Carr lies dead, give his pack with the egg whisk in to Babayaro)

[Cronky]

It's a confusing picture. Previous players have spoken very highly of Sam and his methods, and have seemed very ready to re-join him eg Faye. There can't be a lot wrong with his training methods.

 

This may all be a sign of progress. I've had the feeling that Sam has been caught in the middle between trying to please some of the players and imposing his own ideas. This 4-3-3 / 4-4-2 confusion may have been part of that. Sam may have now decided - quite rightly - that he has no choice but to stick with what he believes. Naturally, there's going to be a reaction to that on the part of some.

[Parky]

It's a confusing picture. Previous players have spoken very highly of Sam and his methods, and have seemed very ready to re-join him eg Faye. There can't be a lot wrong with his training methods.

 

This may all be a sign of progress. I've had the feeling that Sam has been caught in the middle between trying to please some of the players and imposing his own ideas. This 4-3-3 / 4-4-2 confusion may have been part of that. Sam may have now decided - quite rightly - that he has no choice but to stick with what he believes. Naturally, there's going to be a reaction to that on the part of some.

 

We must have the biggest group of moaners in the PL.

[Guest teepee]

maybe he is trying to implement a lot at one time, and that might frustrate the players, as it obviously isn't working out straight away.

 

i still have faith in him improving our training etc. it is only his persistance for rotating and playing players out of position that worries me

[Dokko]

I think we all know the players have had an easy fuking ride for the last several seasons. God forbid they'd actually be put out for their silly money.

 

Total cunts the lot of them. Sell the moaners, even if its Given, Taylor, Zoggy or Martins and find someone who appreciates playing football for a living, a very fuking handsome living to boot.

 

Twats.

[Dunedin]

Does anyone know whether our injury problems have improved under Sam ? It seems to me we have a hell of a lot of injuries again this season. Have the much trumpeted methodologies of Sam made any difference ?

[Parky]

I think we all know the players have had an easy fuking ride for the last several seasons. God forbid they'd actually be put out for their silly money.

 

Total cunts the lot of them. Sell the moaners, even if its Given, Taylor, Zoggy or Martins and find someone who appreciates playing football for a living, a very fuking handsome living to boot.

 

Twats.

 

Agree. There are some right malingerers in there.

[TRon]

Does anyone know whether our injury problems have improved under Sam ? It seems to me we have a hell of a lot of injuries again this season. Have the much trumpeted methodologies of Sam made any difference ?

 

It was never going to happen overnight and that was made clear from the start. Some of the players would prefer to spend Boxing Day having a few drinks and eating Xmas pud, and then playing like a bunch of puds a few days later, but that's life at Newcastle.

 

 

[ChezGiven]

Sam did a massive amount of work on the squad over the summer but i think there is still even more to do on it.

 

The quality of the player isnt good enough for a start but he also needs to kick any prima donnas out on their arse.

 

If Owen is involved, Parky has it spot on, more concerned about the festive horse racing calendar than anything else.

 

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

If Owen is involved, he will probably have a convenient "setback" in his injury that will just so happen to occur on Christmas Eve at Darsley Park in a "light jogging" incident.

[madras]

It's a confusing picture. Previous players have spoken very highly of Sam and his methods, and have seemed very ready to re-join him eg Faye. There can't be a lot wrong with his training methods.

 

This may all be a sign of progress. I've had the feeling that Sam has been caught in the middle between trying to please some of the players and imposing his own ideas. This 4-3-3 / 4-4-2 confusion may have been part of that. Sam may have now decided - quite rightly - that he has no choice but to stick with what he believes. Naturally, there's going to be a reaction to that on the part of some.

that could be the problem. the argument was alaways what allardyce would be like at a bigger club.

 

at bolton did he get to the 4-3-3 as just the best use of what he had or was it a concerted plan ? the better managers go with the former,his days are numbered if the latter.

[James]

The Sun are claiming that three players are revolting, and two are Given and Harper.

 

The tearaway trio told Big Sam they do not like his tactics, his team selection or even his choice of former Chelsea star Geremi as captain.

[ToonTastic]

To be honest i still don't understand the time thing, if you buy good players and play them in the correct positions with straight forward tactics you do well. Doesn't mean you win anything you just do well you then give the manager the 5 years he wants and hopefully in that time he will win stuff. Sven is a good example of this, bought good players, played them correctly and they are doing well won't win anything this season but they will in the next few years I have no doubts. Sam though bought players, feels forced to play them, plays strange complex tactics (football is an easy game don't complicate it!) and we aren't doing well.

[madras]

To be honest i still don't understand the time thing, if you buy good players and play them in the correct positions with straight forward tactics you do well. Doesn't mean you win anything you just do well you then give the manager the 5 years he wants and hopefully in that time he will win stuff. Sven is a good example of this, bought good players, played them correctly and they are doing well won't win anything this season but they will in the next few years I have no doubts. Sam though bought players, feels forced to play them, plays strange complex tactics (football is an easy game don't complicate it!) and we aren't doing well.

shut down the message board and just leave that in its place,says everything.

[James]

If it is the likes of Given, this must be about much more than tactics, after all, him and Harper never complained about the tactical ineptitude of the last two managers.

 

As I see it, some senior players have been left in their own comfort zone for way too long, and now that Allardyce is trying to get them out of it, they are resisting it.

 

Jaaskelainen seeems more and more appealing with each passing day.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

turns out we're not the only ones...

 

from teamtalk.com....

 

"Malouda hits out at Blues methods

Florent Malouda has hit out at Chelsea's training and dietary control - and says footballers in England play with their brains switched off."

 

 

http://www.teamtalk.com/football/story/0,16368,2483_2942837,00.html

[madras]

If it is the likes of Given, this must be about much more than tactics, after all, him and Harper never complained about the tactical ineptitude of the last two managers.

 

As I see it, some senior players have been left in their own comfort zone for way too long, and now that Allardyce is trying to get them out of it, they are resisting it.

 

Jaaskelainen seeems more and more appealing with each passing day.

a0 maybe they did but it never made the press.

 

b) under the previous two it was usually more a case of trying to find 16 fit players out of a poor,ill balanced squad rather than poor tactics.

[Guest justin99.]

I like that pic James. 

[JoeyBartoon]

I think we all know the players have had an easy fuking ride for the last several seasons. God forbid they'd actually be put out for their silly money.

 

Total c***s the lot of them. Sell the moaners, even if its Given, Taylor, Zoggy or Martins and find someone who appreciates playing football for a living, a very fuking handsome living to boot.

 

Twats.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. Big wages, big egos, they've had it far too easy for years.

 

I'm firmly behind Sam on this one.  

[Minhosa]

I think we all know the players have had an easy fuking ride for the last several seasons. God forbid they'd actually be put out for their silly money.

 

Total c***s the lot of them. Sell the moaners, even if its Given, Taylor, Zoggy or Martins and find someone who appreciates playing football for a living, a very fuking handsome living to boot.

 

Twats.

 

That's exactly what I was thinking. Big wages, big egos, they've had it far too easy for years.

 

I'm firmly behind Sam on this one. 

 

[KaKa]

This for me has been the biggest problem at Newcastle for years. The players have been ruling the roost. It is probably why, if for no other reason, Sam was a good appointment. These players disgust me.

 

They are in the entertainment business and for the money they get paid I don't think they have the right to even question staying in London at all. The nature of their jobs means they are at home all the tie anyway and are hardly ever away from their families. Shut up and get on with it. NBA players for example actually play games on Christmas day!

 

I know a lot of people are unhappy with Alan Smith and even Barton but I think it was important to bring players like them to this club as there is no doubt in my mind that their attitude and commitment will be far more positive in these types of situations.

 

Given it seems has another agenda and has been acting up since Sam let it be known that he wouldn't be the number 1 goalie by default.

 

Given out! He hsould concentrate on his game as he has been crap lately anyway.

[Minhosa]

Given & Harper statement being read out on SSN right now.

 

Saying it's all bollocks.