Martins

[Guest Heneage]

No-one fancy cheeky punt for Nick Zigic?

[Guest Knightrider]

I don't think KK would want to sell Martins at this stage but if he could get fantastic money for him and replace him with a much better player, he wouldn't think twice about it and that applies to all players, Owen included. 

[SUPERTOON]

No-one fancy cheeky punt for Nick Zigic?

 

not very good

[Tisd09]

Heard the same myopic views when KK sold cole after deciding we'd be better off going in another direction. And martin's is nowhere near as good a player as andy cole.

 

Thing is we had better players around Cole back then than we do now around Martins. I can see what you are saying but on his day he is one of if not our best players!

 

I think it would be a bad idea to sell the guy unless we had a better player lined up to replace him!

[Cheshire Mag]

The difference between us selling Cole back then and us potentially selling Martins now is that we had Beardsley back then, who even on a bad day could create chances for any striker who was playing with him, with his skill and ability to pick out a killer pass.

 

I think Martins is the only player who can create something at the minute for us, only due to his pace & I dont think that we could get someone with the ability to sign for us this summer.

 

Selling Martins is more likely to put players off coming here.

[Wullie]

Love how people just expect us to easily sign not only a better player than Martins but also replace his pace, all for not much more money.

 

Some people live on cloud cuckoo land.

[David Icke - Son of God]

Can I point out that no matter how fabulous Martins is on his day he has a habit of going missing big time, fluffing easy chances, miscontrolling the ball and forgetting he has any pace.

 

A good player? Yes, some of the time. A player we couldn't replace? Don't be daft.

[Gallowgate Toon]

Can I point out that no matter how fabulous Martins is on his day he has a habit of going missing big time, fluffing easy chances, miscontrolling the ball and forgetting he has any pace.

 

A good player? Yes, some of the time. A player we couldn't replace? Don't be daft.

Maybe but that was pre Keegan, where he was under-confident and under isolation, he has never been the same since Keegan put him in that 4-3-3 with a good contribution to the team, much improved general play and goals. I think it would be unfair to judge how good Martins is until we've seen more of him. Please name a player like him? how can you replace that pace when there are not many if any quicker?

[Dr. Nguyen Van Falk]

Love how people just expect us to easily sign not only a better player than Martins but also replace his pace, all for not much more money.

 

Some people live on cloud cuckoo land.

 

And without Spurs stealing them away first...

[Skeletor]

Love how people just expect us to easily sign not only a better player than Martins but also replace his pace, all for not much more money.

 

Some people live on cloud cuckoo land.

 

Yet also believe we'll lose every target to Spurs and Everton.

[Guest rebel_yell12]

The difference between us selling Cole back then and us potentially selling Martins now is that we had Beardsley back then, who even on a bad day could create chances for any striker who was playing with him, with his skill and ability to pick out a killer pass.

 

I think Martins is the only player who can create something at the minute for us, only due to his pace & I dont think that we could get someone with the ability to sign for us this summer.

 

Selling Martins is more likely to put players off coming here.

 

Right, someone explain the bolded part there to me.  I'll straight honest, first off, that I do not think the club should sell Martins, I like him in the new system and his pace is very important if we have a relatively immobile CF in Viduka's position.  He seems very happy at Newcastle United, and scores some crackers.  He's relatively young (23, I believe) and could be a solid player for NUFC for 7-10 more years.  The club's transfer attention should be on replacing Viduka and midfielders, primarily, imo.  Not messing about with the fit and scoring strikers (Owen and Martins, top and second-top scorers, respectively). 

 

However, I do not agree with this bolded bit.  I do not think Martins is the "lynchpin" of the system, nor do I think he's the most important player going forward who is the only person who can create anything for Newcastle.  Personally, I think Martins was about the fifth most important player in the end of season success -- tied with Viduka, but Viduka should be easier to replace and needs it at any rate (hence my view that keeping Martins is a priority).  Players ranked above Martins, you ask?  In order -- Owen, Butt, Beye, Harper.  In fact, those five (w/Martins) are the ones I think the squad should build around for next season hopefully with an understudy for Butt brought in this close season.  There are flat BETTER players at Newcastle, and in fact, there is a better STRIKER at Newcastle United, than Obafemi Martins.  Say what you like about Michael Owen, but he's far more proven in the Premiership and internationally, and was in fact the top scorer in both league and total goals this past season, as well as being club captain for the last 18 matches or so.  He's a better goalscorer than Martins.  That doesn't mean he can do it alone, and the club should try its best to keep both strikers, imo.  But Owen's ability to play as the "playmaker" I think refutes the argument that Martins is the only player who can create anything.  Anyone still arguing that Owen is one-dimensional...I wonder about your eyesight.  Or at least whether or not you actually watched the last 10 matches of the season.  (btw, I am not arguing that OWEN is the only one, either just pointing out on flaw in the argument above presented which I highlighted in bold). 

[Tachikoma]

Erm, as well as Owen has done in playing the "playmaker" role for us, he's nothing more than a makeshift (in that role) Owen isn't one-dimensional, but the team is without Martins in it.

[Guest iliketoonarmy]

Can I point out that no matter how fabulous Martins is on his day he has a habit of going missing big time, fluffing easy chances, miscontrolling the ball and forgetting he has any pace.

 

A good player? Yes, some of the time. A player we couldn't replace? Don't be daft.

 

name the player then,idiot.

[fredbob]

The difference between us selling Cole back then and us potentially selling Martins now is that we had Beardsley back then, who even on a bad day could create chances for any striker who was playing with him, with his skill and ability to pick out a killer pass.

 

I think Martins is the only player who can create something at the minute for us, only due to his pace & I dont think that we could get someone with the ability to sign for us this summer.

 

Selling Martins is more likely to put players off coming here.

 

Right, someone explain the bolded part there to me.  I'll straight honest, first off, that I do not think the club should sell Martins, I like him in the new system and his pace is very important if we have a relatively immobile CF in Viduka's position.  He seems very happy at Newcastle United, and scores some crackers.  He's relatively young (23, I believe) and could be a solid player for NUFC for 7-10 more years.  The club's transfer attention should be on replacing Viduka and midfielders, primarily, imo.  Not messing about with the fit and scoring strikers (Owen and Martins, top and second-top scorers, respectively). 

 

However, I do not agree with this bolded bit.  I do not think Martins is the "lynchpin" of the system, nor do I think he's the most important player going forward who is the only person who can create anything for Newcastle.  Personally, I think Martins was about the fifth most important player in the end of season success -- tied with Viduka, but Viduka should be easier to replace and needs it at any rate (hence my view that keeping Martins is a priority).  Players ranked above Martins, you ask?  In order -- Owen, Butt, Beye, Harper.  In fact, those five (w/Martins) are the ones I think the squad should build around for next season hopefully with an understudy for Butt brought in this close season.  There are flat BETTER players at Newcastle, and in fact, there is a better STRIKER at Newcastle United, than Obafemi Martins.  Say what you like about Michael Owen, but he's far more proven in the Premiership and internationally, and was in fact the top scorer in both league and total goals this past season, as well as being club captain for the last 18 matches or so.  He's a better goalscorer than Martins.  That doesn't mean he can do it alone, and the club should try its best to keep both strikers, imo.  But Owen's ability to play as the "playmaker" I think refutes the argument that Martins is the only player who can create anything.  Anyone still arguing that Owen is one-dimensional...I wonder about your eyesight.  Or at least whether or not you actually watched the last 10 matches of the season.  (btw, I am not arguing that OWEN is the only one, either just pointing out on flaw in the argument above presented which I highlighted in bold). 

 

Martins is invauable to the team, i personally think equally important as Owen, Owens job is to retain possession in the final third and link up play between the midfielders and the forwards which he has done exceptionally well - he isnt a creator in the direct sense (Martins does have that feather in his cap, much like Bellamy in his heyday) but he is usually vital in the link up play before the creation of an oppurtunity, he also chips in with goals, some of which have been vital.

 

If you look at Martins he creates oppurtunities in a different way, he is an invalauble outlet who can change the dimensions of play in an instant, how many times have you seen him retain possessio in the opposition corner when we've been under the cosh a little? Thats invaluable to a team, its a similar to what Rooney does at Man U on occasion - how many times have you seen him down the left flank on his own with possession?

 

Also MArtins can thread a through ball occassionally and does put in the odd cross/shot, maybe that side of his game can be refined more but for me he is really invaluable.

 

 

[Dave]

Can I point out that no matter how fabulous Martins is on his day he has a habit of going missing big time, fluffing easy chances, miscontrolling the ball and forgetting he has any pace.

 

A good player? Yes, some of the time. A player we couldn't replace? Don't be daft.

 

name the player then,idiot.

 

Idiot's overrated IMO, and Spurs are after him anyway.

[papo]

Can I point out that no matter how fabulous Martins is on his day he has a habit of going missing big time, fluffing easy chances, miscontrolling the ball and forgetting he has any pace.

 

A good player? Yes, some of the time. A player we couldn't replace? Don't be daft.

 

name the player then,idiot.

 

Idiot's overrated IMO, and Spurs are after him anyway.

:lol:

[Ronaldo]

Can I point out that no matter how fabulous Martins is on his day he has a habit of going missing big time, fluffing easy chances, miscontrolling the ball and forgetting he has any pace.

 

A good player? Yes, some of the time. A player we couldn't replace? Don't be daft.

 

name the player then,idiot.

 

indeed, looking forward to the response to this

[Guest rebel_yell12]

The difference between us selling Cole back then and us potentially selling Martins now is that we had Beardsley back then, who even on a bad day could create chances for any striker who was playing with him, with his skill and ability to pick out a killer pass.

 

I think Martins is the only player who can create something at the minute for us, only due to his pace & I dont think that we could get someone with the ability to sign for us this summer.

 

Selling Martins is more likely to put players off coming here.

 

Right, someone explain the bolded part there to me.  I'll straight honest, first off, that I do not think the club should sell Martins, I like him in the new system and his pace is very important if we have a relatively immobile CF in Viduka's position.  He seems very happy at Newcastle United, and scores some crackers.  He's relatively young (23, I believe) and could be a solid player for NUFC for 7-10 more years.  The club's transfer attention should be on replacing Viduka and midfielders, primarily, imo.  Not messing about with the fit and scoring strikers (Owen and Martins, top and second-top scorers, respectively). 

 

However, I do not agree with this bolded bit.  I do not think Martins is the "lynchpin" of the system, nor do I think he's the most important player going forward who is the only person who can create anything for Newcastle.  Personally, I think Martins was about the fifth most important player in the end of season success -- tied with Viduka, but Viduka should be easier to replace and needs it at any rate (hence my view that keeping Martins is a priority).  Players ranked above Martins, you ask?  In order -- Owen, Butt, Beye, Harper.  In fact, those five (w/Martins) are the ones I think the squad should build around for next season hopefully with an understudy for Butt brought in this close season.  There are flat BETTER players at Newcastle, and in fact, there is a better STRIKER at Newcastle United, than Obafemi Martins.  Say what you like about Michael Owen, but he's far more proven in the Premiership and internationally, and was in fact the top scorer in both league and total goals this past season, as well as being club captain for the last 18 matches or so.  He's a better goalscorer than Martins.  That doesn't mean he can do it alone, and the club should try its best to keep both strikers, imo.  But Owen's ability to play as the "playmaker" I think refutes the argument that Martins is the only player who can create anything.  Anyone still arguing that Owen is one-dimensional...I wonder about your eyesight.  Or at least whether or not you actually watched the last 10 matches of the season.  (btw, I am not arguing that OWEN is the only one, either just pointing out on flaw in the argument above presented which I highlighted in bold). 

 

Martins is invauable to the team, i personally think equally important as Owen, Owens job is to retain possession in the final third and link up play between the midfielders and the forwards which he has done exceptionally well - he isnt a creator in the direct sense (Martins does have that feather in his cap, much like Bellamy in his heyday) but he is usually vital in the link up play before the creation of an oppurtunity, he also chips in with goals, some of which have been vital.

 

If you look at Martins he creates oppurtunities in a different way, he is an invalauble outlet who can change the dimensions of play in an instant, how many times have you seen him retain possessio in the opposition corner when we've been under the cosh a little? Thats invaluable to a team, its a similar to what Rooney does at Man U on occasion - how many times have you seen him down the left flank on his own with possession?

 

Also MArtins can thread a through ball occassionally and does put in the odd cross/shot, maybe that side of his game can be refined more but for me he is really invaluable.

 

 

 

I agree that Martins was vital to the team's late season success.  Without him, teams will find it very easy to stop Newcastle's attacking momentum because Owen would have no one as an outlet, or to stretch defenses to  give him space (Viduka and Smith both sh*** at this).  As I said, I think he's someone Newcastle need to look to keeping for the long term.  The new 4-3-3 certainly wouldn't work without someone like Martins (preferably the man in question himself) to play there.  Whilst I agree with many of your points, I simply cannot rate his importance above Owen (captain, "playmaker", top-scorer), Beye (strongest part of the back 4), or Harper (did amazingly well, imo) and I struggle to put him above Butt (played vitally well in the DM position) although I think Butt over the season was less consistent than Martins which makes it very close.  I could accept Martins ranked above Butt, depending on various points of view.

 

My only real concern about Martins is in the case of a return to 4-4-2 as the primary formation.  It would be interesting to see Owen and Martins upfront together, properly (ie with a decent midfield 4) but if that fails to work...it could be very messy.  The fans all seem to love and somewhat over-rate Martins (I think he's good, but hardly as brilliant as some on here like to argue) and if the partnership with Owen doesn't work, will the fans accept Oba playing behind Owen (Owen is captain, logically he'd not be benched)?  Or will Owen get slagged off and abused because he's "displaced" the fan favourite Martins (ignoring the fact that Owen is a more established, consistently top-class player)?  Will Martins himself accept playing behind Owen, or will he want to leave?    He is, after all, 23 not 19 and looking to enter his peak years, and now is proven in the Premiership.  Will there be yet more rumours of unrest, etc., at the club because two strikers aren't getting along?  Ideally, the partnership will work out, but I am worried about the consequences if the two do not mesh well.  I am hoping the 4-3-3 continues, both because it was effective against the teams that Newcastle must beat to move up the table, and because it allows both Owen and Martins onto the pitch at once, which guarantees regular goals (and let's be honest, we all love goals). 

[Optimistic Nut]

Can I point out that no matter how fabulous Martins is on his day he has a habit of going missing big time, fluffing easy chances, miscontrolling the ball and forgetting he has any pace.

 

A good player? Yes, some of the time. A player we couldn't replace? Don't be daft.

 

name the player then,idiot.

 

indeed, looking forward to the response to this

 

I think Pongolle could do a similar job for half the price. Done well at Recreativo the last two seasons.

[Guest Coubury]

Agree 100% with you rebel_yell12 he is overrated on this forum

[NE5]

Martins has been invaluable to the team but if KK thinks he can get a better player in, then get him in first, is the simple reply to this one.

 

 

 

[David Icke - Son of God]

It's quite obvious I wandered into a Martins love in and told a few home truths that people didn't want to hear.

 

If you want a player who costs nothing and would probably be just as effective in that position i'd go for EMO. Spend the £13 million we could potentially recoup on Martins on a decent playmaker to replace Owen (Arshavin, just to keep you Pop Pickers happy) if we're going to continue to play 433.

[Pilko]

Just skim-read some of rebel_yell's comments and he's pretty much spot on. I'd much rather we had Owen, Martins + another scoring 12-15 a season each than having one class striker scoring 30-odd a season. We all know what happens when you put all your eggs in one big-money basket.

[KaKa]

It's quite obvious I wandered into a Martins love in and told a few home truths that people didn't want to hear.

 

If you want a player who costs nothing and would probably be just as effective in that position i'd go for EMO. Spend the £13 million we could potentially recoup on Martins on a decent playmaker to replace Owen (Arshavin, just to keep you Pop Pickers happy) if we're going to continue to play 433.

 

We'd still have to pay big money for a hell of a striker to play alongside Owen then, because all of the pace and athleticism would be gone from our forward line with Owen replacing Martins there.

[David Icke - Son of God]

It's quite obvious I wandered into a Martins love in and told a few home truths that people didn't want to hear.

 

If you want a player who costs nothing and would probably be just as effective in that position i'd go for EMO. Spend the £13 million we could potentially recoup on Martins on a decent playmaker to replace Owen (Arshavin, just to keep you Pop Pickers happy) if we're going to continue to play 433.

 

We'd still have to pay big money for a hell of a striker to play alongside Owen then, because all of the pace and athleticism would be gone from our forward line with Owen replacing Martins there.

 

That's bollocks right there.

 

While Owen isn't as fast as he used to be he's still pacey compared to your average striker. I've nee idea where this myth about him having no pace at all now has come from. Granted, he isn't like shit off a stick like Martins but pace isn't everything.