Stoke City 0 - 0 Newcastle United - 06/01/08 - post match reaction from page 22

[KaKa]

Was Taylor that good? Got credit for the clearance of the line but he was the one that created the calamity in the first place by falling over under a bit of pressure. Also, why does he have his hands out like that when he defends? Begging to have a handball and penalty given against him.

 

Abdoulaye Faye is an absolute monster of a defender. Never flustered, rusched or hurried. Calm and strong and he actually tries to play the ball out of the back.

 

Honestly, we weren't that bad today. Our problem is a small one but it affects the team massively. We have no actual footballing ability in the middle of the park. Lots of aggression but thats it. I actually respect Butt because he does try to do things although he does end up gettin git wrong a fair bit, but Smith just hides, which is criminal.

 

If Sam can just realise we need someone with a good passing range in the middle we would be a very different team. It doesn't even need to be someone who gets forward. Just someone who can pass the ball to the more attacking players. This is part of the reason we fade so badly in the second half. Smith and Butt become even worse as they tire and so they show for the ball even less and when they do get posession they lose it even more often.

 

 

[Dokko]

As much as Lua Lua ran at people and was sort of innovative without direction, he was very controlled and not a headless chicken. I appreciate how contradictory that sounds, , but what i mean is - he ran with it and actually searched for someone to pass to, as apposed to just randomly running absolutely anywhere, and going absolutely nowhere. He picked the ball up, ran, and looked to spread it to the wings.

 

Very encouraging performance.

 

What the hell are you on about?

 

Read dipshit

 

[Taylor Swift]

It's interesting that we've been consistently shit in the second half for many games now. We start out well, actually dominate (like we did against City), but then when the second half comes around we regress into Roeder mode. I wonder why this is consistently happening. Surely the fact that we start out the first half well means that the same formula (tactics, teamtalk etc.) can be applied at halftime.

[Cajun]

Oops, forgot about Enrique...

 

Enrique - 4; Worked hard but poor.

 

Think that is really harsh, I thought he had a good game especially in the first half.

[Guest Knightrider]

It's interesting that we've been consistently shit in the second half for many games now. We start out well, actually dominate (like we did against City), but then when the second half comes around we regress into Roeder mode. I wonder why this is consistently happening. Surely the fact that we start out the first half well means that the same formula (tactics, teamtalk etc.) can be applied at halftime.

 

At Bolton they often finished the game the stronger side. Don't know why we keep fading after the break.

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

For the time being, Enrique should stay left-back, he didn't look out of place at all.  That means Zoggy can get back to playing down the left.  Or is it right?  No, the left, Duff's right.  Hang on, no, I've got this wrong, Zog is right and Duff is left....

 

Anyway.  Smith and Butt both had 'mares.  (Butt should've spent the afternoon at Kingston Park doing Jonny Wilko's job).  I wouldn't mind if SA started Kazenga in the replay if he's determined not to play Emre in the centre with one of the aforementioned pair.

 

And for all those who slate Viduka, I'm sorry, but I know he wasn't amazing today, but he showed today his ability to play with his back to goal.  With Martins away after the Man Utd game it would be criminal for SA to even consider a Smith-Owen pairing up front.

[Ember]

I'm shitting the Utd game with no Faye.

[Yorkie]

Given ... 6. Made some good saves but his kicking was absolutely God awful, yet again.

 

Rozehnal ... 3. Not up to it. Did very little well. I know he's not a right-back but just general defensive things like, erm, passing or erm, shielding. Not a clue.

Taylor ... 7. Colossal at times. Very strong, very organised.

Faye ... 7. Colossal at times. Very strong, very organised, and very fast!

Enrique ... 6. Lost his way by the end of the game but he looks a strong defender and looks pretty sharp n'all which is nice.

 

Duff ... First half 7. Second half 6.

Smith ... First half 4. Second half 3.

Butt ... First half 3. Second half 3.

N'Zogbia ... First half 7. Second half 6.

 

Viduka ... First half 6. Second half 4 (don't blame him for this though).

Owen ... First half 6. Second half 4. Never in it.

[Rich]

Just what the fuck was Sam thinking, honestly? We were playing well in the first half, it was a matter of time before we scored.

 

"We're playing well lads. We've played some half-decent stuff on the floor, some nice passages of play, some nice quick passes. But our final ball isn't working. I know! Go straight to the final ball and see how that works."

 

 

Fucking stupid. Couldn't believe it. Honest to God. Honestly, i thought Sam would learn from his mistakes, but with things like this - jsut what the fuck. It was a CARBON COPY of Man City. First half good, on the floor, pacey, etc - second half, all long ball and utter shit. Madness. What's he thinking?

 

I'm not entirely convinced that the manager has that much say over the style of football/way the game pans out once the players cross the white line. It's not like it's just Allardyce who has overseen second halves like that after decent enough openings here recently. The players aren't good enough for one, the conditions were terrible, everything else was against us. I don't believe for a second that he's told our lot to go "more direct" at half-time.

 

If anything, it was plainly obvious that if we played some football then we might win it.

 

But how come there was such a vast, vast difference in the first half to the second? There was so few out-and-out long balls in the first half. In the second, every single fucking passage of play was a long ball. And is it just coincidence that it was exactly the same against Man City?

 

Viduka/Owen - they'll have been be pulling their hair out; neither are good in the air and neither have the pace to win flick-ons and suchlike.

 

Taylor/Faye/Given - not particularly accurate long passers (and Given's kicking is unbelieveably poor on the whole nowadays)

 

Butt/Smith/Geremi - all defensive midfielders, and atleast two of them are more often than not in the starting line-up; they don't have the attacking brain or the abililty in any way shape or form to run onto flick-ons or support, or just generally get in the game when the ball frequently bypasses the midfield on the whole

 

Duff/N'Zogbia/Milner - again, two of the three or often all of them play at once, and all three of them are good at running down the bylines; how were they ever going to get into the game

 

If it wasn't the manager who told them to play direct, it wasn't the players.

 

Argh, man, despite what some idiots will have you believe football isn't as simple as this: "right lads, now I know you all follow my instructions to the T at all times, and that you're all like robots with no ideas, imagination or free-thinking yourselves... so here's what I want you to do when you get out onto that field!" These are professional footballers who have played the game religiously and competitively for upwards of 20 years, for the most part, and so will usually be given a fair amount of freedom in how they approach games - especially when they're over the white line.

 

It's not just Allardyce where we've seen this happen, it's not just Newcastle who do this, surely you can see that? The reasons for the second half performance are quite probably vast and wondrous, but if you genuinely believe that we played that way because Sam Allardyce wanted us to, then... well I don't know, I won't be an arsehole about it.

 

I'll venture some counter-reasons though, while I can still be arsed to type: (1) the conditions weren't suited to playing it on the deck, we weren't getting much luck and the players started getting desperate and looking for the "Hollywood" ball (Nicky Butt in particular is guilty of this). (2) We do not have many players who are capable of keeping posession and Stoke were pressuring us all over the pitch, meaning the SAFEST route of action for most of our lot was to pump it long. (3) THE MAIN REASON: Nicky Butt and Alan Smith were NEVER FUCKING DROPPING DEEP AND ASKING FOR THE BALL, OR MAKING ANY RUNS (this isn't shouting at you btw, it's more my annoyance with them). There were fucking oodles of occasions in that game where I was yelling at one of them to do SOMETHING to open up some space so that Rozehnal, in particular, could play a simple 10-yard pass inside to get a move going, rather than being shown down the channel by their winger and into another long ball.

 

If your central midfielders aren't showing for the ball, or don't have the ability to create any space for themselves to receive the ball and your wingers are both marked, then what other alternative is there bar passing it along the back-line, which would get as much as a negative reaction as the long-ball stuff does?

 

I'm also aghast that people seem to think we've JUST STARTED to play direct football since Allardyce arrived, do people not remember fucking Sibierski-takes-on-allcomers at times last season? Or Alan Shearer towards the end of his career here battling centre-halves for 90 minutes as Titus Bramble and Andy O'Brien lobbed balls up towards his balding cranium!? Do people watch other teams who do EXACTLY THE SAME THING as us when they start to get desperate?

 

If I'm wrong and it comes out in the wash down the line that Sam Allardyce has been demanding we play this way from day one, then I'll openly apologise and be made to look an utter tit, I'll take it on the chin.

 

I'm not going to bullshit anybody, I've just sat stone-faced for the majority of that game, wondering why the fuck I even bother watching matches like this when we're involved ('cos they're all the fucking same). Allardyce cannot be totally absolved of blame, but neither can the players, but all I'm saying is that there's more goes into what happens on a football pitch than what a manager says for 5 minutes at half time.

 

Now, that feels better.

[Guest Lefty Toon]

Was Taylor that good? Got credit for the clearance of the line but he was the one that created the calamity in the first place by falling over under a bit of pressure. Also, why does he have his hands out like that when he defends? Begging to have a handball and penalty given against him.

 

Abdoulaye Faye is an absolute monster of a defender. Never flustered, rusched or hurried. Calm and strong and he actually tries to play the ball out of the back.

 

 

spot on

 

Honestly, we weren't that bad today. Our problem is a small one but it affects the team massively. We have no actual footballing ability in the middle of the park. Lots of aggression but thats it. I actually respect Butt because he does try to do things although he does end up gettin git wrong a fair bit, but Smith just hides, which is criminal.

 

If Sam can just realise we need someone with a good passing range in the middle we would be a very different team. It doesn't even need to be someone who gets forward. Just someone who can pass the ball to the more attacking players. This is part of the reason we fade so badly in the second half. Smith and Butt become even worse as they tire and so they show for the ball even less and when they do get posession they lose it even more often.

 

 

[/quote

 

spot on

[Dokko]

For the time being, Enrique should stay left-back, he didn't look out of place at all.  That means Zoggy can get back to playing down the left.  Or is it right?  No, the left, Duff's right.  Hang on, no, I've got this wrong, Zog is right and Duff is left....

 

Anyway.  Smith and Butt both had 'mares.  (Butt should've spent the afternoon at Kingston Park doing Jonny Wilko's job).  I wouldn't mind if SA started Kazenga in the replay if he's determined not to play Emre in the centre with one of the aforementioned pair.

 

And for all those who slate Viduka, I'm sorry, but I know he wasn't amazing today, but he showed today his ability to play with his back to goal.  With Martins away after the Man Utd game it would be criminal for SA to even consider a Smith-Owen pairing up front.

 

I'd have Zoggy through the middle alongside Butt with Duff on the left and Milner on the right, or if he's still ill start LuaLua.

 

I know Zoggy's not a central player, but Smith isn't a footballer.

 

 

[junkhead]

i feel there will be some serious screaming at the monitor for the next month while Faye is away

[hakka]

Taylor was our best player.

 

What?

 

Faye was miles better imo.

[Keefaz]

As much as Lua Lua ran at people and was sort of innovative without direction, he was very controlled and not a headless chicken. I appreciate how contradictory that sounds, , but what i mean is - he ran with it and actually searched for someone to pass to, as apposed to just randomly running absolutely anywhere, and going absolutely nowhere. He picked the ball up, ran, and looked to spread it to the wings.

 

Very encouraging performance.

 

What the hell are you on about?

 

Read dipshit

 

 

[Mick]

If I was Allardyce I would be looking to replace both Smith the midfielder and Butt, they were shocking.

[Dokko]

As much as Lua Lua ran at people and was sort of innovative without direction, he was very controlled and not a headless chicken. I appreciate how contradictory that sounds, , but what i mean is - he ran with it and actually searched for someone to pass to, as apposed to just randomly running absolutely anywhere, and going absolutely nowhere. He picked the ball up, ran, and looked to spread it to the wings.

 

Very encouraging performance.

 

What the hell are you on about?

 

Read dipshit

 

 

 

When you work it out, let me know. 

[Keefaz]

Given ... 6. Made some good saves but his kicking was absolutely God awful, yet again.

 

Rozehnal ... 3. Not up to it. Did very little well. I know he's not a right-back but just general defensive things like, erm, passing or erm, shielding. Not a clue.

Taylor ... 7. Colossal at times. Very strong, very organised.

Faye ... 7. Colossal at times. Very strong, very organised, and very fast!

Enrique ... 6. Lost his way by the end of the game but he looks a strong defender and looks pretty sharp n'all which is nice.

 

Duff ... First half 7. Second half 6.

Smith ... First half 4. Second half 3.

Butt ... First half 3. Second half 3.

N'Zogbia ... First half 7. Second half 6.

 

Viduka ... First half 6. Second half 4 (don't blame him for this though).

Owen ... First half 6. Second half 4. Never in it.

 

Yorkie, sort it out. I cannot conceive how anyone could rate Smith higher than Butt. I can't even understand how Smith can be rated higher than anyone else on the pitch. He was the worst player for 300 miles, including Sunday league teams and kids in the park.

[Newcastle Fan]

When's the replay?

[Rich]

If I was Allardyce I would be looking to replace both Smith the midfielder and Butt, they were shocking.

 

Like Yorkie said earlier, his options were severely limited with the selection today. I dread to think how Cacapa would have fared against their strikers on that pitch and it would have been a fucking massive ask for Edgar to come in and do the business after so long out. The other viable option would have been to stick Lua Lua right, Duff left and partner N'Zogbia with one of Butt or Smith in the middle of the park, but again it would have been a fair bit of a gamble.

 

For me, tonight only highlighted how much the players are to blame for our recent failings as anybody else involved with the club, it was an embarrasment to watch at times.

[Parky]

Was Taylor that good? Got credit for the clearance of the line but he was the one that created the calamity in the first place by falling over under a bit of pressure. Also, why does he have his hands out like that when he defends? Begging to have a handball and penalty given against him.

 

Abdoulaye Faye is an absolute monster of a defender. Never flustered, rusched or hurried. Calm and strong and he actually tries to play the ball out of the back.

 

Honestly, we weren't that bad today. Our problem is a HUGE one AND it affects the team massively. We have no actual footballing ability in the middle of the park. Lots of aggression but thats it. I actually respect Butt because he does try to do things although he does end up gettin git wrong a fair bit, but Smith just hides, which is criminal.

 

If Sam can just realise we need someone with a good passing range in the middle we would be a very different team. It doesn't even need to be someone who gets forward. Just someone who can pass the ball to the more attacking players. This is part of the reason we fade so badly in the second half. Smith and Butt become even worse as they tire and so they show for the ball even less and when they do get posession they lose it even more often.

 

 

 

blueyes.gif

[WarrenBartonCentrePartin]

For the time being, Enrique should stay left-back, he didn't look out of place at all.  That means Zoggy can get back to playing down the left.  Or is it right?  No, the left, Duff's right.  Hang on, no, I've got this wrong, Zog is right and Duff is left....

 

Anyway.  Smith and Butt both had 'mares.  (Butt should've spent the afternoon at Kingston Park doing Jonny Wilko's job).  I wouldn't mind if SA started Kazenga in the replay if he's determined not to play Emre in the centre with one of the aforementioned pair.

 

And for all those who slate Viduka, I'm sorry, but I know he wasn't amazing today, but he showed today his ability to play with his back to goal.  With Martins away after the Man Utd game it would be criminal for SA to even consider a Smith-Owen pairing up front.

 

I'd have Zoggy through the middle alongside Butt with Duff on the left and Milner on the right, or if he's still ill start LuaLua.

 

I know Zoggy's not a central player, but Smith isn't a footballer.

 

 

[hakka]

When's the replay?

 

I don't know, but but if Smith is starting in midfield I won't be watching it.

[Mick]

 

 

Like Yorkie said earlier, his options were severely limited with the selection today. I dread to think how Cacapa would have fared against their strikers on that pitch and it would have been a f****** massive ask for Edgar to come in and do the business after so long out. The other viable option would have been to stick Lua Lua right, Duff left and partner N'Zogbia with one of Butt or Smith in the middle of the park, but again it would have been a fair bit of a gamble.

 

For me, tonight only highlighted how much the players are to blame for our recent failings as anybody else involved with the club, it was an embarrasment to watch at times.

 

If Allardyce has anything to spend then it should be on two creative midfielders, it doesn't matter how good your forwards are if you can't use them.

[ChrisJbarnes]

well lads, who do we want in the next round?

[Yorkie]

Given ... 6. Made some good saves but his kicking was absolutely God awful, yet again.

 

Rozehnal ... 3. Not up to it. Did very little well. I know he's not a right-back but just general defensive things like, erm, passing or erm, shielding. Not a clue.

Taylor ... 7. Colossal at times. Very strong, very organised.

Faye ... 7. Colossal at times. Very strong, very organised, and very fast!

Enrique ... 6. Lost his way by the end of the game but he looks a strong defender and looks pretty sharp n'all which is nice.

 

Duff ... First half 7. Second half 6.

Smith ... First half 4. Second half 3.

Butt ... First half 3. Second half 3.

N'Zogbia ... First half 7. Second half 6.

 

Viduka ... First half 6. Second half 4 (don't blame him for this though).

Owen ... First half 6. Second half 4. Never in it.

 

Yorkie, sort it out. I cannot conceive how anyone could rate Smith higher than Butt. I can't even understand how Smith can be rated higher than anyone else on the pitch. He was the worst player for 300 miles, including Sunday league teams and kids in the park.

 

They were the wrong way round. Butt was 4 then 3, Smith was 3 then 3.

 

Smith was no worse than Butt on the whole in my opinion, they were both as bad as each other. I'm not defending Smith's performance, i'm saying that both were absolutely terrible.