Ashley has failed Newcastle United.

[fredbob]

From www.newcastlebanter.co.uk

Keegan and Ashley: Triumph and Betrayal

By Neil Farrington on Sep 4, 08 10:58 PM in

SO farewell then, Kevin Keegan - and congratulations.

Congratulations not only on leaving Tyneside - surely, for the last time - with your integrity intact.

No, congratulations on achieving arguably - hopefully - the greatest triumph of your career at Newcastle United simply by walking away from St James's Park . . .

And so exposing the businessmen - businessmen? - who purport to run the club (and so serve the most deserving fans in football) as the witless, conniving, mostly absent fools they are.

Cowards too, even if my strong belief that none of them will show their face any time soon in the city they have so callously betrayed is mistaken.

For even those few Geordies who felt no emotional pull towards Keegan; even outsiders who habitually gawp at St James's like rubberneckers passing a car crash; cannot deny that the conduct of Newcastle's so-called hierarchy this week - not to mention recent months - has been disgraceful.

For two-and-a-half days, Mike Ashley and his goons left a city which lives and breathes football gasping in a vacuum of rumour, speculation and fear.

Then they cast that proud town into misery with a pitiless cruelty that bodes worse still for United in the months ahead.

Apparently, that's simply the way Mr Ashley does business; the way he got to be the man he is . . . a sad, wannabe football fan and social adolescent (necking a pint in one, indeed).

Well,, I am pretty sure he has just made one of the worst business decisions of his life.

Having sown an ill wind, he must now reap the whirlwind.

Sure, he will have little trouble persuading the outsiders whose fascination with the Newcastle circus grows ever more morbid to switch their attention to the question of Keegan's successor.

Why, with more false promises, he might even tempt a credible character - from abroad, most probably - to take the job, Dennis Wise and all.

But I reckon Ashley's hopes of making a tidy profit from his ruinous flirtation with football followed Keegan out the door.

And even he should know that Newcastle itself will never forget the events of September 2008, or his part in them.

And will never forgive.

If Ashley acknowledges that fact - and his loyalty to Wise and co above Keegan suggests a detachment from reality - his backside may drop so fast and far in the next few days that he bails out of football to the first bidder.

Shame on him that he has left a city praying for such small mercies.

 

 

 

To the point and a fair appraisal. Ashley Out.

 

If Alex is right, its got f*** all to do with Ashley, its all about Wise.

 

This is just more of the same mindless tripe that has been flying around for the last few days. This evil system which has supposedly caused all the trouble is the same one that Keegan bought into when he agreed to join the club, and the same one that seems to have done a good job of strengthening the team over the summer. Now because Keegan throws a hissy fit, everyone decides that things were no good all along.

 

I don't think it's occurred to many that it might well be Ashley who's the one that's acted with integrity here. Keegan was trying to use his standing with the fans to force him to sack Wise. In many ways that would have been the easy option for Ashley - that would have kept the peace. But he decided that Wise was doing the job that he'd been asked to do, and there was no justification for sacking him. Regardless of whether you think the DOF system is the right one, at least Ashley was prepared to stick to his beliefs and not make Wise a sacrificial lamb, no matter what the outside pressure was.

 

Good post - i just dont see the logic that people are forming there opinions from. The way i see it is that Keegans targets didnt fit in with the direction the club wanted to go - what were they supposed to do? Break that fundamental pricipal of the club in order to appease the messiah or stick to there guns?

 

The picture i see in my mind is Ashley sitting lonely in his mansion whilst Keegan has his credit card like a spoilt wife. 

 

 

Why hire him then?

 

Is that a genuine question?

[Parky]

From www.newcastlebanter.co.uk

Keegan and Ashley: Triumph and Betrayal

By Neil Farrington on Sep 4, 08 10:58 PM in

SO farewell then, Kevin Keegan - and congratulations.

Congratulations not only on leaving Tyneside - surely, for the last time - with your integrity intact.

No, congratulations on achieving arguably - hopefully - the greatest triumph of your career at Newcastle United simply by walking away from St James's Park . . .

And so exposing the businessmen - businessmen? - who purport to run the club (and so serve the most deserving fans in football) as the witless, conniving, mostly absent fools they are.

Cowards too, even if my strong belief that none of them will show their face any time soon in the city they have so callously betrayed is mistaken.

For even those few Geordies who felt no emotional pull towards Keegan; even outsiders who habitually gawp at St James's like rubberneckers passing a car crash; cannot deny that the conduct of Newcastle's so-called hierarchy this week - not to mention recent months - has been disgraceful.

For two-and-a-half days, Mike Ashley and his goons left a city which lives and breathes football gasping in a vacuum of rumour, speculation and fear.

Then they cast that proud town into misery with a pitiless cruelty that bodes worse still for United in the months ahead.

Apparently, that's simply the way Mr Ashley does business; the way he got to be the man he is . . . a sad, wannabe football fan and social adolescent (necking a pint in one, indeed).

Well,, I am pretty sure he has just made one of the worst business decisions of his life.

Having sown an ill wind, he must now reap the whirlwind.

Sure, he will have little trouble persuading the outsiders whose fascination with the Newcastle circus grows ever more morbid to switch their attention to the question of Keegan's successor.

Why, with more false promises, he might even tempt a credible character - from abroad, most probably - to take the job, Dennis Wise and all.

But I reckon Ashley's hopes of making a tidy profit from his ruinous flirtation with football followed Keegan out the door.

And even he should know that Newcastle itself will never forget the events of September 2008, or his part in them.

And will never forgive.

If Ashley acknowledges that fact - and his loyalty to Wise and co above Keegan suggests a detachment from reality - his backside may drop so fast and far in the next few days that he bails out of football to the first bidder.

Shame on him that he has left a city praying for such small mercies.

 

 

 

To the point and a fair appraisal. Ashley Out.

 

If Alex is right, its got f*** all to do with Ashley, its all about Wise.

 

This is just more of the same mindless tripe that has been flying around for the last few days. This evil system which has supposedly caused all the trouble is the same one that Keegan bought into when he agreed to join the club, and the same one that seems to have done a good job of strengthening the team over the summer. Now because Keegan throws a hissy fit, everyone decides that things were no good all along.

 

I don't think it's occurred to many that it might well be Ashley who's the one that's acted with integrity here. Keegan was trying to use his standing with the fans to force him to sack Wise. In many ways that would have been the easy option for Ashley - that would have kept the peace. But he decided that Wise was doing the job that he'd been asked to do, and there was no justification for sacking him. Regardless of whether you think the DOF system is the right one, at least Ashley was prepared to stick to his beliefs and not make Wise a sacrificial lamb, no matter what the outside pressure was.

 

Good post - i just dont see the logic that people are forming there opinions from. The way i see it is that Keegans targets didnt fit in with the direction the club wanted to go - what were they supposed to do? Break that fundamental pricipal of the club in order to appease the messiah or stick to there guns?

 

The picture i see in my mind is Ashley sitting lonely in his mansion whilst Keegan has his credit card like a spoilt wife. 

 

 

Why hire him then?

 

Is that a genuine question?

 

Well yes, cause I'm sure it is one KK is still asking himself.

[fredbob]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

[NE5]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

[Parky]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

More or less yes.

 

People need to grasp that MA had put in to place quite strong financial barriers to the things KK wanted to do, he either totally misjudged the kind of stubborn and pround man KK is or he was deluded enough to think he could charm him and whatnot....

[Robster]

Well he seems to have fucked up big style thats for sure. For me he one opportunity left. One chance to show that he has realised his error, is listening to what is going on around him and realises what he should do.

Hasnt got much time left in order to do it.. will he come up with the goods ??

 

I dont have much confidence now, personally.

[Parky]

Bevan insisted that Ashley's largely London-based management structure was doomed to failure: "If you look at a football club when people are running it from different parts of the country, when you've got a manager who doesn't know who is being signed, who is leaving and who is coming in, it's a recipe for disaster.

 

 

[Mick]

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

Pity Ashley didn't have the £100 million he had to pay off the debt, I wonder what Keegan would have been able to do with half that?

[Guest optimistic nit]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

 

 

your idea of "the best players" seems to be those that cost the most money, at least from what i've seen so far.

 

I think ashley may have regretted keegans appointment quite quickly. its clear now that both parties had different visions of how to take newcastle forward, and it must have become apparent very quickly that keegan didn not share ashley's vision. the best thing he could have done may have been to sack him in the summer, although we've seenwhat areaction that will have brought out from the fans.

 

however, if you have a manager, he must have full control over everything, ashley hired him, and if he couldn't fire him then his only other option should have been to back him. instead he tried to get his way without sacking keegan and ended up with this joke of a system that was unfair on keegan and the club. this was inevitable.

 

thats what i think anyway. what i will say is that if you have a manager that is unsackable, like keegan then there is always a risk something like this could happen, although ashley should have thought much more carefully about keegans appointemnt and not assumed he would come around to his way of thinking.

 

 

 

i dont think we could have attracted any better players than jonas, and colo, i think we've done brilliantly to get both of them, and i hope to god we dont lose them.

[macca888]

NE5

 

So, utterly predictable, am I?

 

Answer me the following questions:

 

1.......Were you happy to see Ashley rid the club of 80 million pounds debt incurred by your beloved fat boy freddie?

2........Are you happy with the standard of football so far this season?

3........Are you happy with a ratio of 6 wins out of 21 games, a 29% win record achieved by Keegan in his time here?

4........Although thin, do you consider the current squad of players better than under Allardyce, Roeder etc?

 

I doubt very much you could answer any of these questions either honestly or sensibly because you suffer from the disease of "woods and trees".

 

And just to reiterate, no, I dont believe Keegan has been a success here in football management,. just like he failed to be a success with Fulham, Man City and England. However, as a PR man, I think Keegan is top rank.

 

I also had a great laugh at your comment about sticking to the tried and trusted method of the last 100 years. That would be the method that has seen us fail to win a domestic trophy for 53 years in spite of the millions we have shelled out to a succession of managers, including Keegan.

 

You need to grow up and smell the roses, sunshine. This club needs to move ahead and at least try the continental approach because your tried and trusted method just doesnt work. And before you say it worked under Keegan 1992-97, answer me the question..............What trophy did he win for us? As far as I remember, he managed to lose us the best chance of winning the league for 70 years.

 

The only real mistake Ashley has made is appointing the wrong man to this system in January, as pointed on numerous threads over the past few days, by several posters.

 

And if you mdont like MY OPINION, you can stick it where the sun doesnt shine, that is, if you actually have just the one......you tosser.

 

[mrmojorisin75]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

you know enough about football to know that this doesn't tell the whole story - liverpool, who dominated for decades didn't just buy the best players a la chel$ki did they?  they bought good players and made them the best players in most cases whilst also making sure they were bringing through their own players, it was scouting & coaching in a lot of cases as much as just money

 

man u famously spent 25 years or so without the title, during that time they broke british transfer record after transfer record but it was only when fergie combined their spending power with a well maintained/scouted & coached youth system did they become what they are now

 

arsenal speaks for itself, prior to wenger they were like liverpool - brought players through but spent also, same now actually but the weight is with development i guess

 

you can't argue with any of this can you NE5?  therefore, imo, ashleys main failing with trying to implement the "system" you seem to so willingly ridicule is that he's not backed it with hard cash on the first team, but then none of us know what his intentions are/were/will be with regards the club

 

i don't know enough about what they've set up at grass roots level but it seems a little slapdash to me as i've heard about dennis wise & his team but what i'd really like to have heard about was the club targetting top class youth coaches to bring players on - there's no point in bringing in the kids if we have coaches who can't get enough out of them...as i say i don't know enough about this side but as i've heard nothing from anywhere about it i'll assume we've got the same youth coaches we had before who wrung virtually nothing out of the system

 

it's almost like ashley 'heard' the way to go was to follow this 'system' but doesn't fully understand it or something, much like most of the posters on here imo who spent half the summer lauding ashley's lack of transfer activity and are probably now carrying pitchforks and burning torches roaming northumberland st in the hope of spotting the new "fat bastard" so they can run him out of town

 

 

 

[Guest Darth Toon]

 

Answer me the following questions:

 

1.......Were you happy to see Ashley rid the club of 80 million pounds debt incurred by your beloved fat boy freddie?

 

 

People keep talking about this bit as if it makes Ashley such a top bloke, when in reality all it has done is add to the value of the club he owns 100%. He bought us for 130 million or whatever, then paid off 80 million debt, so as far as he's concerned the club is now worth 210 million, probably more as being debt free is a big selling point - it isn't as if he's shelling out his own pocket just because he's a lovely bloke.

 

He's also made a net profit on transfers, so where is all the TV and season ticket money currently sitting?

 

 

[Cronky]

From www.newcastlebanter.co.uk

Keegan and Ashley: Triumph and Betrayal

By Neil Farrington on Sep 4, 08 10:58 PM in

SO farewell then, Kevin Keegan - and congratulations.

Congratulations not only on leaving Tyneside - surely, for the last time - with your integrity intact.

No, congratulations on achieving arguably - hopefully - the greatest triumph of your career at Newcastle United simply by walking away from St James's Park . . .

And so exposing the businessmen - businessmen? - who purport to run the club (and so serve the most deserving fans in football) as the witless, conniving, mostly absent fools they are.

Cowards too, even if my strong belief that none of them will show their face any time soon in the city they have so callously betrayed is mistaken.

For even those few Geordies who felt no emotional pull towards Keegan; even outsiders who habitually gawp at St James's like rubberneckers passing a car crash; cannot deny that the conduct of Newcastle's so-called hierarchy this week - not to mention recent months - has been disgraceful.

For two-and-a-half days, Mike Ashley and his goons left a city which lives and breathes football gasping in a vacuum of rumour, speculation and fear.

Then they cast that proud town into misery with a pitiless cruelty that bodes worse still for United in the months ahead.

Apparently, that's simply the way Mr Ashley does business; the way he got to be the man he is . . . a sad, wannabe football fan and social adolescent (necking a pint in one, indeed).

Well,, I am pretty sure he has just made one of the worst business decisions of his life.

Having sown an ill wind, he must now reap the whirlwind.

Sure, he will have little trouble persuading the outsiders whose fascination with the Newcastle circus grows ever more morbid to switch their attention to the question of Keegan's successor.

Why, with more false promises, he might even tempt a credible character - from abroad, most probably - to take the job, Dennis Wise and all.

But I reckon Ashley's hopes of making a tidy profit from his ruinous flirtation with football followed Keegan out the door.

And even he should know that Newcastle itself will never forget the events of September 2008, or his part in them.

And will never forgive.

If Ashley acknowledges that fact - and his loyalty to Wise and co above Keegan suggests a detachment from reality - his backside may drop so fast and far in the next few days that he bails out of football to the first bidder.

Shame on him that he has left a city praying for such small mercies.

 

 

 

To the point and a fair appraisal. Ashley Out.

 

If Alex is right, its got f*** all to do with Ashley, its all about Wise.

 

This is just more of the same mindless tripe that has been flying around for the last few days. This evil system which has supposedly caused all the trouble is the same one that Keegan bought into when he agreed to join the club, and the same one that seems to have done a good job of strengthening the team over the summer. Now because Keegan throws a hissy fit, everyone decides that things were no good all along.

 

I don't think it's occurred to many that it might well be Ashley who's the one that's acted with integrity here. Keegan was trying to use his standing with the fans to force him to sack Wise. In many ways that would have been the easy option for Ashley - that would have kept the peace. But he decided that Wise was doing the job that he'd been asked to do, and there was no justification for sacking him. Regardless of whether you think the DOF system is the right one, at least Ashley was prepared to stick to his beliefs and not make Wise a sacrificial lamb, no matter what the outside pressure was.

 

Good post - i just dont see the logic that people are forming there opinions from. The way i see it is that Keegans targets didnt fit in with the direction the club wanted to go - what were they supposed to do? Break that fundamental pricipal of the club in order to appease the messiah or stick to there guns?

 

The picture i see in my mind is Ashley sitting lonely in his mansion whilst Keegan has his credit card like a spoilt wife. 

 

 

Why hire him then?

 

Is that a genuine question?

 

Well yes, cause I'm sure it is one KK is still asking himself.

 

I'm sure Ashley will now be viewing that decision as a major mistake. Lots of us were shocked and disappointed at the time of the appointment. Even compared with other English managers, Keegan isn't well suited to a team approach. He has to be the boss, and often I think operates by force of will rather than negotiation. And with a bloke who has exiled himself from the game for three years, you have to question his motivation and staying power, as well as his knowledge of players.

 

At the time that Allardyce was sacked, the team was sinking downwards and there was a lot of anxiety and pressure from the fans. A few bad results early on and the new manager would have been in trouble. As the local hero, Keegan would be a popular choice, and the crowd cut him a lot of slack when we went through the first 9 games without a win, and playing quite badly. So it was a good short-term choice, but very risky in the long term.

[fredbob]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

Again, you're missing the point though, the point being that Ashley wanted to change the system and structure of the club, the rest about proven method is a moot point really.

 

In an ideal world, id of liked to of seen Keegan get a fat wedge and free reign to do whatever he wanted - but having exhausted that system in the past i can understand why Ashley wanted to change the system, im not defending him whatsoever, nor am i attacking Keegan, but from my perspective i see the transfer targets as being the main issue here which undermined the whole system.

 

I believe that Keegan (having been out of the game for 3 years) created a list which was a little out of date and categorically didnt fit in with the sysytem (bare in mind that this is the system the club wanted to implement from the outset and keegan agreed to it), with so may unsuitable targets it put the club under a little pressure.

 

If Keegan had thought up of a more current and suitable list do you think the club would of undermined him so much? Do you think keegans knowledge of players round england and europe was damaged a little from the absence of the game?

[Guest]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

Again, you're missing the point though, the point being that Ashley wanted to change the system and structure of the club, the rest about proven method is a moot point really.

 

 

 

This club is moot.

[fredbob]

What reasons were there for not hiring them at that point?

 

To me, reading 'between the lines', i see 3 major issues - the pre determined direction of the club - Spurs/Arsenal model which look for future gems and  the continental set up, i see keegans list and i see wise's list.

 

Now the set up and direction has been discussed and agreed with, we're all fine there, now we get to the lists, again, reading between the lines i see names like Dunne and Riise being bandied around on keegans list - older, no sell on value, no long term value, high wages, keegan doesnt have the knowledge of good young up and comers becasue he;s been out the game for so long - no one will of been rinign him up in those 3 years saying "keep an eye out for this lad etc etc" , i doubt he had a decent grasp of the wuropean games either. Wise et al DO, and they stuck to the clubs direction signing young players as well as players who arent on high wages and do have a decent sell on value (whihc is indicative of their value to the club), now here we hit the fork road - do we look to go after all keegans unsuitable targets or go after the ones that do fit in with the proviso?

 

I know, and i think you know that the club should be going the direction that the owner wanted it to.

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

 

 

your idea of "the best players" seems to be those that cost the most money, at least from what i've seen so far.

 

I think ashley may have regretted keegans appointment quite quickly. its clear now that both parties had different visions of how to take newcastle forward, and it must have become apparent very quickly that keegan didn not share ashley's vision. the best thing he could have done may have been to sack him in the summer, although we've seenwhat areaction that will have brought out from the fans.

 

however, if you have a manager, he must have full control over everything, ashley hired him, and if he couldn't fire him then his only other option should have been to back him. instead he tried to get his way without sacking keegan and ended up with this joke of a system that was unfair on keegan and the club. this was inevitable.

 

thats what i think anyway. what i will say is that if you have a manager that is unsackable, like keegan then there is always a risk something like this could happen, although ashley should have thought much more carefully about keegans appointemnt and not assumed he would come around to his way of thinking.

 

 

 

i dont think we could have attracted any better players than jonas, and colo, i think we've done brilliantly to get both of them, and i hope to god we dont lose them.

 

This is a pretty good post - but for me the final say has to be with the owner and if he wants to implement a different system - surely thats his perogative. the sticking point for me are the respective lists and i think that was the sticking point for the board and keegan too.

 

 

[Wallace]

I don't really have a problem with the DOF structure but since Wise and co arrived, the Club and Ashley in the recent magazine have always insisted that Keegan was responsible for the first team and his coaching staff and absolutely had the final word .  That is now obviously not true.

 

I cannot understand the Club trying to sell senior players late on Monday night without KK's knowledge when we have a desperately small squad.  When Owen is currently the only fit striker and there is no guarantee that a young striker and one new to the Premiership will settle anytime soon, that seems madness to me. 

 

 

[Benwell Lad]

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

Pity Ashley didn't have the £100 million he had to pay off the debt, I wonder what Keegan would have been able to do with half that?

 

Crazy how the man who has put more of his personal wealth into NUFC than anyone becomes more despised than those who went before him and took money out. He really has fecked up !

 

Also funny that when Bobby Robson was stabbed in the back there was so little uproar but when Keegan walks (maybe rightly so) there is huge uproar. It's funny how things work in football.

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

Answer me the following questions:

 

1.......Were you happy to see Ashley rid the club of 80 million pounds debt incurred by your beloved fat boy freddie?

 

 

People keep talking about this bit as if it makes Ashley such a top bloke, when in reality all it has done is add to the value of the club he owns 100%. He bought us for 130 million or whatever, then paid off 80 million debt, so as far as he's concerned the club is now worth 210 million, probably more as being debt free is a big selling point - it isn't as if he's shelling out his own pocket just because he's a lovely bloke.

 

He's also made a net profit on transfers, so where is all the TV and season ticket money currently sitting?

 

 

 

Oh dear.  The "Idiots guide to Corporate Finance" is out again.

[S.S.R.]

People keep talking about this bit as if it makes Ashley such a top bloke, when in reality all it has done is add to the value of the club he owns 100%. He bought us for 130 million or whatever, then paid off 80 million debt, so as far as he's concerned the club is now worth 210 million,

 

I'd save your breath, people don't listen.

 

Even when he sells up and makes a big fat profit, they'll still deny it and put their fingers in their ears.

[Guest Darth Toon]

 

Answer me the following questions:

 

1.......Were you happy to see Ashley rid the club of 80 million pounds debt incurred by your beloved fat boy freddie?

 

 

People keep talking about this bit as if it makes Ashley such a top bloke, when in reality all it has done is add to the value of the club he owns 100%. He bought us for 130 million or whatever, then paid off 80 million debt, so as far as he's concerned the club is now worth 210 million, probably more as being debt free is a big selling point - it isn't as if he's shelling out his own pocket just because he's a lovely bloke.

 

He's also made a net profit on transfers, so where is all the TV and season ticket money currently sitting?

 

 

 

Oh dear.  The "Idiots guide to Corporate Finance" is out again.

 

Well the minimum price I'm seeing quoted for a sale is 250 million, which is a fair bit more than the total invested to date - where am I going wrong?

[Unbelievable]

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

Pity Ashley didn't have the £100 million he had to pay off the debt, I wonder what Keegan would have been able to do with half that?

 

Crazy how the man who has put more of his personal wealth into NUFC than anyone becomes more despised than those who went before him and took money out. He really has fecked up !

 

Also funny that when Bobby Robson was stabbed in the back there was so little uproar but when Keegan walks (maybe rightly so) there is huge uproar. It's funny how things work in football.

 

I'm sure you'll be happy for him if it turns out in the next few weeks he will have made a 100% profit on us in just over a year..

[Liam Liam Liam O]

 

Answer me the following questions:

 

1.......Were you happy to see Ashley rid the club of 80 million pounds debt incurred by your beloved fat boy freddie?

 

 

People keep talking about this bit as if it makes Ashley such a top bloke, when in reality all it has done is add to the value of the club he owns 100%. He bought us for 130 million or whatever, then paid off 80 million debt, so as far as he's concerned the club is now worth 210 million, probably more as being debt free is a big selling point - it isn't as if he's shelling out his own pocket just because he's a lovely bloke.

 

He's also made a net profit on transfers, so where is all the TV and season ticket money currently sitting?

 

 

 

Oh dear.  The "Idiots guide to Corporate Finance" is out again.

 

Well the minimum price I'm seeing quoted for a sale is 250 million, which is a fair bit more than the total invested to date - where am I going wrong?

 

 

 

The idea of it being "all it has done" is fundamentally incorrect.

 

The idea that it hasn't come out of his own pocket is just plain wrong.  Of course it has.

 

If someone can afford to purchase the club debt free they could have afforded to purchase it with the debt & settled it themselves in reality.

[Colos Short and Curlies]

 

Answer me the following questions:

 

1.......Were you happy to see Ashley rid the club of 80 million pounds debt incurred by your beloved fat boy freddie?

 

 

People keep talking about this bit as if it makes Ashley such a top bloke, when in reality all it has done is add to the value of the club he owns 100%. He bought us for 130 million or whatever, then paid off 80 million debt, so as far as he's concerned the club is now worth 210 million, probably more as being debt free is a big selling point - it isn't as if he's shelling out his own pocket just because he's a lovely bloke.

 

He's also made a net profit on transfers, so where is all the TV and season ticket money currently sitting?

 

 

 

Most of it will go on wages

[NE5]

 

the only direction the  club should be going is the tried, tested and proven method of  the last 100 years

 

Which is quite simply that the highest placed clubs are that because they buy the best players.

 

So less of the "system" bollocks and attempting to defend a bunch of amateurs.

 

The manager runs the club. He picks his staff and scouting systems. He picks who to sell and who to buy. And his board back him as much as possible, which in the case of NUFC is a damn sight more than poxy little clubs that have to incorporate "business plans" and financial limits simply because they are poxy little clubs that need to do it because they are poxly little clubs. Whatever people who say they supported the club when they tried to adopt such a policy.........as knackerjacks and idiots like mick says to the contrary............  mackems.gif

 

End of story

 

 

 

Pity Ashley didn't have the £100 million he had to pay off the debt, I wonder what Keegan would have been able to do with half that?

 

er, yes. We could have kept the stadium at a 36,000 capacity in your opinion then ?

 

Brilliant.

 

Paying the stadium off, fair play, but only a deluded fool would say that anyone with the brass wouldn't do exactly the same and don't worry about mikey baby, I'm sure it wasn't out of the goodness of his heart and he'll sell his asset with that money lobbed onto the asking price.

 

Shame we didnt' see the saving on repayments spent on players by the way. You never  know, if he had backed his own appointed manager, he might still be here.

 

I'm sure the likes of Arsenal, ManU have observed your words of wisdom and not expanded their stadiums until they have saved up the money, you had better send a letter to Anfield before they make the same mistake.

 

There is absolutely no hope for you.