Dave Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his shite football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that bastard clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we fucked up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Dave, that is like your longest post ever. I agree with you though. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his s**** football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that b****** clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we f***** up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. sweary words? get a grip dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his s**** football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that b****** clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we f***** up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. sweary words? get a grip dave You have just given me MASSIVE deja vu. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 You saying we could go down Dave? I just hope we don't get relegated this season, then fucking go for it in the summer. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 You saying we could go down Dave? I just hope we don't get relegated this season, then fucking go for it in the summer. I've said all along that I don't think even Allardyce would have taken us down. I'm just generally worried I suppose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted February 3, 2008 Share Posted February 3, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his s**** football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that b****** clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we f***** up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. sweary words? get a grip dave You have just given me MASSIVE deja vu. was SO glad it was the words deja vu that came after the word MASSIVE! could say it was a MASSIVE relief Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his s**** football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that b****** clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we f***** up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. sweary words? get a grip dave You have just given me MASSIVE deja vu. was SO glad it was the words deja vu that came after the word MASSIVE! could say it was a MASSIVE relief Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his s**** football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that b****** clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we f***** up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. sweary words? get a grip dave You have just given me MASSIVE deja vu. was SO glad it was the words deja vu that came after the word MASSIVE! could say it was a MASSIVE relief You are talking to the wrong person. Its Yorkie and Kev you have to look out for. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dokko Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I just hope were not saying the same thing after the next window closes, I'm sure we won't be, but the next 3.5 months of football are unimportant, its just something we have to go through to get to the summer. Come the summer we have no Euro 2008, i suppose we, the fans and management can solely use it for window shopping, but in terms of getting into something, something we can enjoy and want to be part of, we'll now have to wait until next season to get it. Pisses me off though that one or two signings could have changed that, but we'll never know now, what we do know, is the team as it is is not good enough, and we are going to struggle for the rest of this morbid season. Limp to the finish line that's all we've got in us, and when we try and get players in it will show we limped there, nothing will have changed, another season down the pan, excitement and the chance ignite this season could of come relatively cheap in the grand scheme of things, which ever way we look at it not buying anyone in the window sets us back 7 months, 7 months of starting something, now we sit knowing were shite, and have nothing concrete to look forward too as no fuker knows how the next window will pan out. All in all, not impressed at all with how its turned out, a brighter future through, the one were all pinning our hopes on is fuking miles away, and no matter how much you try and lie to yourself (you know who you are) this window was a shambles and as put the club on dodgy ground. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggio Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Keegan's made his decision and I have faith in him that he knows what he's doing, disappointing having to write the season off at the end of January but that's life. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his s**** football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that b****** clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we f***** up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. sweary words? get a grip dave You have just given me MASSIVE deja vu. was SO glad it was the words deja vu that came after the word MASSIVE! could say it was a MASSIVE relief You are talking to the wrong person. Its Yorkie and Kev you have to look out for. Gejon too? Oh and Bontempi. Always thought he was a lass Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Keegan's made his decision and I have faith in him that he knows what he's doing, disappointing having to write the season off at the end of January but that's life. You know...that sounds like a broken record. We've been writing off season after season. Think we're due some good times again soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 On a serious note, I don't even think Allardyce's reign here should "count". He was brought in to do a long term job, and by the sounds of things when he came in, he seemed like the right man, at the right age, with the right experience to do it. He got nowhere near enough time obviously, and his short term success rate was abysmal. Many things were down to him, good and bad....but there were outside factors as well he could do nothing about. Personally dont have any hard feelings towards the fella, and still think he is a top manager. As for Keegan....I'm sure he can't wait to get this season over and done with. I just hope that he can get a few wins under his belt ASAP to ensure safety, and hope he uses the rest of it to assess his players, giving every single one of them a chance. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ElDiablo Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Keegan's made his decision and I have faith in him that he knows what he's doing, disappointing having to write the season off at the end of January but that's life. You know...that sounds like a broken record. We've been writing off season after season. Think we're due some good times again soon. Word. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yorkie Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I'm not a lass. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhatTheFunk Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I'm not a lass. No doubt Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
merlin Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 You saying we could go down Dave? I just hope we don't get relegated this season, then f****** go for it in the summer. I've said all along that I don't think even Allardyce would have taken us down. I'm just generally worried I suppose. I agree with your first post on this, but its not Allardyce OR KK who can or can't take us down - its the players, and they look very capable of that achievement , if nothing else, which is why you started the thread isn't it..!!?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jackie Broon Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Allardyce never really had the players he needed IMO. To play the long-ball/direct/however you want to wrap his s**** football up, he needed players like he had at Bolton for the system to work. The likes of Kevin Davies et al. Now he obviously had funds in the summer - he spent enough - but he simply couldn't get in the personnel to make it work. I think he got caught in two minds actually; he started off trying to adapt to a different style (for a 'big club', to appease expectations etc) and when it wouldn't work he reverted to type. Problem is the players couldn't do it, so even his bread and butter didn't work. So Keegan has arrived, and now he wants to play football. Keep it on the deck, pass and move. But he has a similar problem to that which Allardyce had - these players are simply not good enough for it. We're full of cloggers like Butt, Smith and Carr. Players who will try their best, but it's just not enough. They have little or no actual technique or skill, of the level Keegan needs. At one point today Carr tried to bring a long ball from Boro down on his chest. Unsurprisingly, he failed woefully, and we nearly conceded as a result. I went mental, ranting 'You're not good enough to do that!' at the fool. Add a couple of sweary words of course... He needed to head that b****** clear, and ironically enough, under Allardyce he probably would have. Now I've defended Keegan's right to take his time over signings, and his decision not to bring anyone in this January. But it's not looking great; I have much more sympathy with the arguments of those saying we f***** up badly by not making any signings after seeing us today. I'm worried Keegan has overrated our cloggers. Put simply, a major clearout is needed in the summer. Again. Keegan and Ashley have to deliver this time. Given Beye Cacapa Taylor Enrique Milner Barton Emre N'Zogbia Owen Martins That side could definitely play a bit of football. Outside of Man U, Arsenal, Chelsea and Liverpool half of that team would walk into any other team in the premiership. Owen, Martins, N'Zogbia, Beye and Given. We have got good players, what we lack is confidence. The ability to play 'carpet football' is there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve_69 Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 The problem is that, as good as that lineup looks, there are only two players you could say have genuine pace - Martins and N'Zogbia. In addition to flair and creativity, the main thing we need to add to our squad in the summer is 2-3 players quick players. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 Can't say I am too surprised at how it has turned out, while I agree Keegan might have over-rated our players, I think given some patience he will address this in the summer. This is precisely WHY it a smart move to sack Allardyce swiftly and unceremoniously - so Keegan could use this wasted season to assess the squad. A lot of these players are not physical enough to play Sam's devolutionary football, and are too slow to play pass and move to Keegan's taste. Butt, Geremi, Emre, Smith should be sold and replaced with more technically gifted players with some pace if we want to follow the Arsenal blueprint. A forward with height and pace ala Adebeyor would make a massive difference as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karjala Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 I think its common knowledge we need nothing short of a mass clear out AGAIN this summer. Thought we did that last year, but as you say, SA brought in a load of shite. The same kinds of player KK seems to have decided not to bring in this window - ones that add numbers but not quality - Smith, Geremi, Roz, then theres Butt, Carr, Ameobi still hanging around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skirge Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 The drop is a possibility we need to be honest about that from the off, but I do have faith that Keegan will keep us up, more faith than I would have had if Sam was still here. I recorded the match yesterday watched it as soon as I got back from the game and we are not that bad really 4 games in under Kev and really the season only started yesterday for him. Big Sam seems little bitter still even though he did try hard to hide it, fact is I do not think any of the squad here were with him, even the players he bought in, it was just not working for him and he signed enough players to get his way but now they are not the ones he really wanted, he came here to spend "big money". We did not want long ball football and it was all he was ever going to be able to offer us after he proved he did not really have a clue about ball on the deck football, okay we may not have the best players but they are much more of a passing side then a long ball side, even Viduka needs the ball to feet and not in the air. Since Sam left I think the player interviews have spoke volumes about how they felt under Sam and how the long ball game was killing them. It was all about defend defend defend, dropping deep and getting behind the ball, but as soon as we conceded that was it, heads down and confidence gone at a rapid rate, you could see they did not think they would score playing under Sam's system, so once we went behind it was as though it was over. You can already see a bit more belief in them, Owen looks interested once again as he can now see we have much more of a chance of creating things for him, he should have had a hattrick yesterday, He was never goign to get three chances to score in the one match under Sam. The balance is whats wrong right now but Keegan needs time to sort that out, get to know the players a little more and understand their strengths and weaknesses, understand that Zoggy has no clue about positioning in the LB role and he really needs Enrique fit or play an actual defender in that role until the summer. We all wanted to see Owen and Martins together and under Sam we did a couple of times, it did'nt work at all, we all saw that but I feel under KK with the ball on the deck then the Owen - Martins partnership is better than the Owen - Viduka or Owen - Smith. ones, it will come together once Oba is back. Time is needed and I am sure it will be a lot easier to give Kk time seeing as an improvement can be seen already, Sam got no time as we looked no better under him than we did under Souness or Roeder and the squad just did not look together, the goal celebration yesterday is the most I have seen them look together for a long time. Its not all good by a long shot but it is much better than it was and come the end of the season things may not be so gloomy and players we are ready to get rid of may have much improved under KK, big money will still be spent lots of players may leave but I bet its not as many as everyone expects. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRon Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 It's not all bad, Duff has been a big plus, Beye, Faye and possibly Enrique all look to have what it takes to be useful players. A bit of quality investment in the summer should make a big difference. The key being quality, no more bargain buys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Bailey Posted February 4, 2008 Share Posted February 4, 2008 It's not all bad, Duff has been a big plus, Beye, Faye and possibly Enrique all look to have what it takes to be useful players. A bit of quality investment in the summer should make a big difference. The key being quality, no more bargain buys. Agree with this entirley. In another thread I was questioning if Duff was good enough/motivated enough to be classed as a "keeper" for next season. Have to admit his form is improving and he has recently been one of, if not the only, plus to come from our games.... Along with Beye and Faye... there is something to work with..not much but something. The key as said is quality, weve signed some young uns and that has to continue obviously, but this summer for me is the most important for us since the infamous "powder dry" summer. If we fuck this up we could be set back for a long time. The worries I have are: a) has Keegan/have we still got the pulling power he/we once had? Can we identify and attract the quality we need in the areas we need? b) Is Ashley prepared toreally fully back a transfer push, cos it is gonna be major investment that turns us around, and it isnt gonna be cheap. c) How many teams have actually re vamped a side to the degree we may need to, and pulled it off with instant improvement? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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